Expert advice needed on TNE in OIL

[bodybobber]

Hi guys,
I'm new here at this forum! Since I couldn't find a page to introduce myself;........ 'Hello'.

I'm brewing for a couple of years now and made almost everything around, with success...

Now there is still one product that bothers me: TNE!!

I did almost every conversion of this product; waterbased, eo/supersolvent and oil!

My goal is to cook up something without EO and guaiacol due to the fact that these carriers are toxic to the human body!

I am aware that the product will eventually crash and I need to reheat(which is no problem for me), but I need the powder to remain solution after heating, for as long as possible!

Now I noticed from experience that the oil based TNE(CSO, 2%BA, 20%BB) was not painfull at all,
actually this was the best TNE conversion I ever shot.

After making the first 10ml sample(above) I noticed that it will crash in about 24 hours(which is, fine for me as I heat the product before using, which allowes me to use a slin pin)
-(now a couple of days further I also notice that this sample won't crash
anymore after been reheated for, 6 times) Any body familiar with this?

Now I decided to make a batch of the TNE conversion described above. I used the standard conversoin for cooking up test - e etc.
-(process ouline: heated oil, added powder, added 20% BB, reheat, wait until dissolved, add 2%BA, reheat!)

In total I had 100ml's in a Pyrex cup!

I had to use a (multiple)siringe filters(Milipore PDVF .22U).

When the solution was heated and clear(no swirls) I draw up a 20ml siringe with the hot solution, attached the filter and needle and started filtering the solution into sterile vails(2x10ml's at a time)

Meanwhile the solution went back in the oven to stay on temp.

I repeated this exact procedure until I filled 10x10ml's vails, switching filters every 2 vails(20 ml siringe)!

When I let the final product sit, i noticed that 2 vails crashed almost immediatly and others took longer to crash.

Now my questions are:
-why do 2 of the 10 vails crash immediatly?
-Does this mean that the powder/oil ratio is higher in these vails?
-and how could this happen, keeping the procedure above in mind?
-Also, when I shake the vails after crashing to detatch the cristals from the glass, a milky residu sits on the bottom of the vails, but not equal per vail....

Trying to get some pics online....

Hoping someone has a answer to my question,

Greets,
BB

 

[Buttman3]

Hi guys,
I'm new here at this forum! Since I couldn't find a page to introduce myself;........ 'Hello'.

Hi and welcome .

Now I noticed from experience that the oil based TNE(CSO, 2%BA, 20%BB) was not painfull at all,
actually this was the best TNE conversion I ever shot.

Just curious, what does CSO stand for? It's an oil, right?

After making the first 10ml sample(above) I noticed that it will crash in about 24 hours(which is, fine for me as I heat the product before using, which allowes me to use a slin pin)
-(now a couple of days further I also notice that this sample won't crash
anymore after been reheated for, 6 times) Any body familiar with this?

I have not brewed TNE, but I believe I have experienced something similar while working with Drostanolone.

My recipe was a 100mg/ml without BA/BB, and when I heated the oil with the powder, I noticed after maybe 10 minutes or so, there were some solid that appeared in the solution. I reheated until everything dissolved, swirled, and from that point on, I have not noticed any further crashing.

Why did the solution not crash after that?

I don't have an exact answer, but my guess would be that when I did the first heating, the powder did not dissolved completely and/or that I did not swirled to evenly mixed the solution. Therefore, I think some solids remained, so when the solution cooled down, it was easier to crash.

I know from basic chemistry that when a solution is almost saturated, if a solid gets into that solution, it can crash the solution.

Meanwhile the solution went back in the oven to stay on temp.

I repeated this exact procedure until I filled 10x10ml's vails, switching filters every 2 vails(20 ml siringe)!

When I let the final product sit, i noticed that 2 vails crashed almost immediatly and others took longer to crash

.

Do you remember which two vials that crashed? (Were they the 1st and 2nd vial, or were they the 9th and 10th vial, for example)

Now my questions are:
-why do 2 of the 10 vails crash immediatly?
-Does this mean that the powder/oil ratio is higher in these vails?
-and how could this happen, keeping the procedure above in mind?

There are a number of possibilities, but the one that I think is most likely the cause is uneven distribution of the powder in the oil solution.

The reason is due to this:

When the solution was heated and clear(no swirls) I draw up a 20ml siringe with the hot solution, attached the filter and needle and started filtering the solution into sterile vails(2x10ml's at a time

Not swirling increases the chance that your solution was unevenly mixed. So it's very possible that some part of your oil might be more concentrated than others. Therefore, some of your vials crashed while the others didn't.

That would be my guess.

-Also, when I shake the vails after crashing to detatch the cristals from the glass, a milky residu sits on the bottom of the vails, but not equal per vail....

I think this could be more evidence that the concentration of your solution was not evenly distributed.

PS: I have a question that might or might not be related to your topic:

When you filtered, did you ever notice the filtered get clogged up (mainly with the dissolved powder)?

Cheers.

 

[SmilingBob]

I think CSO is cottonseed oil, correct?

It seems strange that the filter was swapped every 20ml. Was this a personal preference or was it clogged? If it was clogging sometimes (as Buttman asked) its sounding more and more like the solution had an uneven distribution of hormone

 

[ChrisWho?]

TNE is a bitch to work with and requires a lot of heat, to the point that the oil is almost smoking. I made up a couple hundred ml and dumped it because I couldn't get it to hold past 48 hours. Guaiacol is the only way I know of to keep TNE in solution.

Now thats it's been awhile has any of the other vials crashed? Do you keep the oil warm while filtering. If it was the first 2 vials it could be because as your oil level was decreasing in the beaker and as that happens the heat will start to rise.

 

[hijacked]

TNE is a bitch to work with and requires a lot of heat, to the point that the oil is almost smoking. I made up a couple hundred ml and dumped it because I couldn't get it to hold past 48 hours. Guaiacol is the only way I know of to keep TNE in solution.

Now thats it's been awhile has any of the other vials crashed? Do you keep the oil warm while filtering. If it was the first 2 vials it could be because as your oil level was decreasing in the beaker and as that happens the heat will start to rise.

As stated, guaiacol is required!

 

[cool dude]

i've seen it done without guiacol. They used ba, bb and eo so it must be in the process ised to brew it. As an example Chris Who claims he has to heat the shit out of it and yet I tried a recipe another guy, I believe "Alexq218" offered where you barely heat it and it works fine. Did it twice and neither crashed. So thats why I say it could be , or better yet, has to be in the way its brewed

 

[ChrisWho?]

i've seen it done without guiacol. They used ba, bb and eo so it must be in the process ised to brew it. As an example Chris Who claims he has to heat the shit out of it and yet I tried a recipe another guy, I believe "Alexq218" offered where you barely heat it and it works fine. Did it twice and neither crashed. So thats why I say it could be , or better yet, has to be in the way its brewed

You have any idea how high the melting point is for base? In order to bring the hormone into solution it needs to be brought to its melting point. Long esters have really low melting points whereas base and short e are higher. Base being one of the highest so to say very little heat was used is B.S. It's very high, as with any base. Heat and the use of a super solvent like guiacol is needed. Just made a tne/inj dbol this last weekend. I'm looking forward to trying it pre work out.

 

[couch]

Heat and the use of a super solvent like guiacol is needed. Just made a tne/inj dbol this last weekend. I'm looking forward to trying it pre work out.

Care to share the recipe? I'd like to try that myself.

 

[hijacked]

You have any idea how high the melting point is for base? In order to bring the hormone into solution it needs to be brought to its melting point. Long esters have really low melting points whereas base and short e are higher. Base being one of the highest so to say very little heat was used is B.S. It's very high, as with any base. Heat and the use of a super solvent like guiacol is needed. Just made a tne/inj dbol this last weekend. I'm looking forward to trying it pre work out.

The melting point for test base is 310 F. And I agree with you, you must use guaicol and i have better luck with ethyl oleate too. These guys that are saying they are doing it without these super solvents are filtering out the hormone and dont even know it. Thats why the guy above had to change filters so many times on such a small batch. I also agree that extra heat is required for this conversion. I dont know how labs sell TNE so cheap, because its a pain in the ass to work with. I really believe that you arent getting the concentration stated on the vial when buying TNE from an underground lab for $30.
Im jealous, Ive wanted to make the same TNE/Dbol blend. Please let me know how it is. PM me and let me know how the conversion went. Are you using whatmans or a vacuum filtration system? Im anxious to hear.

 

[ChrisWho?]

I made it up a few days ago and will try it tomorrow before I hit the gym. Inj. Dbol is just as tempemental as tne so I made sure to let it sit to make sure it didn't crash. Safe to say its good now. I like to use millipore stericups, I've used the nalgenes but find these to filter faster.

The ratios I used for the tne/dbol mix was 2% BA, 18% BB and 6% guiacol with safflower as a carrier. I wasn't sure if 6% guiacol was enough, but that stuff is nasty and I try to use as little as possible. Ive always been told .5ml per 10ml but i also think its very overly used. My girl always bitches at me because of what it does to our house for the week lol. Oh, it came out to 100mg/ml- 50mg tne and 50mg dianabol. The release is slower for injectable orals so once a day inj. are fine at that mg.

I didn't use eo as that really isn't quiet as strong as a solvent, I had damn near 60% eo on a large batch of tne that still wouldn't hold with no super solvent added bc i thought i could do it. Guiacol is the key to all base conversions whether its test, nandro, tren base and drol/dianabol.

 

[hijacked]

Thanks for the ibfo. I had to switch from the nalgene filter systems to the whatman zap caps. The ethyl oleate melted the nalgene filters. Nasty stuff. But i do think it helps it hold, and it definetly makes the final product thinner. And I know what you mean about the wife bitching about the guaicol smell. The first time i used it, it smelled the house up for a week. After that I learned to put a fan in the window and it does a great job of removing the fumes. Well thanks for sharing, and Im anxious to hear what kind of results you get when you start applying.
BTW, i dont know what the melting point is for dbol. How hot did you take the solution? And one more question, are you able to get it crystal clear before filtering? Or does the solution have a slight fog to it prior to filtering?

 

[hijacked]

Thanks for the ibfo. I had to switch from the nalgene filter systems to the whatman zap caps. The ethyl oleate melted the nalgene filters. Nasty stuff. But i do think it helps it hold, and it definetly makes the final product thinner. And I know what you mean about the wife bitching about the guaicol smell. The first time i used it, it smelled the house up for a week. After that I learned to put a fan in the window and it does a great job of removing the fumes. Well thanks for sharing, and Im anxious to hear what kind of results you get when you start applying.
BTW, i dont know what the melting point is for dbol. How hot did you take the solution? And one more question, are you able to get it crystal clear before filtering? Or does the solution have a slight fog to it prior to filtering?

 

[ChrisWho?]

Ya if your not careful EO will eat right through it. If you filter too hot then it'll kill the filter element quick when EO is used. Typically you don't want to go past 20% EO on stericups but I've gone higher, just made sure to filter no hotter than 120f.

When I filtered my last batch(tne/dbol) yes it was clear. I use a digi thermometer when brewing and kept it around 220f with this last batch. Normally it'll be higher, but the guiacol helps with bringing it into solution. The melting point for methandienone is 160c or 323f. It's up top in the melting point thread. If you don't use a super solvent then more heat will generally be needed.

 

[jw2031]

just so you know Benzyl Alcohol is extremely toxic to the human body if used in a high enough concentration, it can kill you! It Shouldn't be used in a concentration more than 6%.
The key for Guaiacol's (a re-agent) safe use like BA is not to use to much.

 

[crazy juice]

love me some tne

 

[hijacked]

Ya if your not careful EO will eat right through it. If you filter too hot then it'll kill the filter element quick when EO is used. Typically you don't want to go past 20% EO on stericups but I've gone higher, just made sure to filter no hotter than 120f.

When I filtered my last batch(tne/dbol) yes it was clear. I use a digi thermometer when brewing and kept it around 220f with this last batch. Normally it'll be higher, but the guiacol helps with bringing it into solution. The melting point for methandienone is 160c or 323f. It's up top in the melting point thread. If you don't use a super solvent then more heat will generally be needed.

My finished product is crystal clear as well. However, my solution is slightly foggy before filtering. Unlike others deca, eq, test cyp, test prop etc. all of those come crystal clear before filtering.
So you said yours is crystal clear after filtering, but what about prior to filtering?

 

[hijacked]

just so you know Benzyl Alcohol is extremely toxic to the human body if used in a high enough concentration, it can kill you! It Shouldn't be used in a concentration more than 6%.
The key for Guaiacol's (a re-agent) safe use like BA is not to use to much.

Im sure BA is toxic, as are most of the other compounds in gear. BA isnt used to help suspend the hormone anyway. Its there to make it bacteriostatic. So concentrations over 2% are not necessary. Guaicol has a toxic rating of 5, per its MSDS data. Ethyl Oleate has a toxic rating of 4, per its MSDS data. A 4 being less toxic. Lots of labs are using ethyl oleate as a carrier. Its nasty stuff, it melts plastic right before your eyes. I guess what Im saying is, all of these things are toxic, making them deadly at some level.