Fat loss and AAS..Let's talk about! (Is there some real truth?)

[.Vision.]

Over the years there's been massive debates, and of lately there's been some discussions in many of the panels in regards to AAS and fat loss..Some in the gear world populace are advocating that there's "no such thing", or AAS don't burn fat..

"I think we can all agree that diet dictates everything,but for arguments sake,let's talk about AAS solely and it's benefits"

So, let's discuss this... (AAS only, no stims or bata's,or GH)

​

Now, you're gonna hear mix reviews on this.. However, I have seen enough evidence that supports AAS having,creating a environment/platform for fat burning..DIET without a doubt is crucial, and the pivotal player..However, there is real science behind fat loss and AAS, but please don't put all your money on it soley as an effective combatant..But nonetheless AAS is effective!

AAS that are seen/reconized on the high/or moderate androgenic scale will in fact promote/increase lypolysis..Thus andros have a higher binding affinity to AR's..

FYI; Androgen receptors are found throughout cellular groups, as well as FAT and muscle cell/groups, now we know that they initiate a response on AR's in muscle cells to promote size/growth, at the same given time they will have a cascade of effects on other cells and AR's found therein fat cells inducing activity/burning..

Higher/more potent the androgen binds to the androgen receptors, the greater the lipolytic response will be on adipose tissue (brown or white)...

Now lets also take into great consideration AR upregulation with the presence of androgens, more AR sites throughout targeting tissue..,There's a vast amount of activity in which a complex interplay between activation and inactivation mechanisms and signaling between cell groups, what People need to remember that hormones are "chemical messengers" that rely messages to cells that display specific receptors for each hormone and respond to the signaling..Depending on the compounds and the individuals metabolization ratio the hormone can/may make changes directly to a cell, by changing the genes that are activated, or by making changes indirectly to a cell by stimulating other signaling pathways inside a specific cell group that is effected and effect other processes, thus this can "initiate" an intracellular cascade of events.. So, the notion that fat loss is NOT presence, and to mitigate that AAS don't posses any fat loss properties is absurd...

So, yes AAS may assist with fat loss, however don't expect miracles and it's advised to have a lower body fat% by diet to expect to see more fat loss effects, but its not crucial..Have your macro's dialed in with your AAS intake, cardio ,and anything is possible, we've seen amazing things happen in this lifestyle..

There's an abundance of clinical research and peer-reviewed data that strongly supports testosterone (and other AAS) fat reducing actions and its preventative impact on adipocyte generation...As AAS (especially Testosterone) acts both in the breakdown of existing fat tissue and to hinder pre-adipocytes from maturing.

This is where some AAS began you accure theer reputation, or spin a myth (winstrol) at promoting fat loss, and achieve lower body fat,cuts..With this said, there's some truth behind winstrol and cuts, but not directly!

Share you thoughts and experience with this!

Below is some studies conducted in fat loss, one in particular stresses the relation with diet and TRT and others just on a placebo and diet...The outcome is astonishing!!

________________________________

Testosterone Treatment Combined With Diet Reduces Fat, Maintains Muscle

April 5, 2016

By Frances Morin

BOSTON -- April 5, 2016 -- Obese men treated with testosterone in addition to a low-calorie diet show greater reduction in body fat and less loss of muscle mass than men on similar diets who did not receive testosterone, according to a study presented here at the 98th Annual Meeting of the Endocrine Society (ENDO).
***8220;In men successfully losing weight through diet, both lean and fat mass are lost,***8221; said Mark Ng Tang Fui, MBBS, BMedSc, The University of Melbourne, Heidelberg, Australia, on April 3.
***8220;The addition of testosterone prevents the loss of lean mass and shifts weight loss to almost exclusive loss of fat,***8221; he added.
Obesity has been linked to lower testosterone levels, whereas weight loss resulting from calorie restriction is linked to increases in circulating testosterone, noted the researchers. At the same time, weight loss in middle-aged men typically depletes fat and muscle.
Although testosterone treatment has been also shown to reduce fat mass, the effects of combining testosterone treatment with calorie restriction have not been demonstrated.
For the study, the researchers enrolled 100 obese men (body mass index [BMI], >30 kg/m2), aged 18 to 75 years, with low to low-normal serum total testosterone levels (average of 2 consecutive morning fasting levels of <12 nmol/L [<346 ng/dL]).
The men were all placed on a very-low-calorie diet (~600 kcal/day) for 10 weeks, followed by a maintenance period of 46 weeks. They were randomised 1:1 in a blinded fashion to receive intramuscular testosterone 1,000 mg or placebo injections at baseline, week 6, and every 6 weeks thereafter over the 56 weeks of the study.
At the study***8217;s end, weight loss in both groups was similar, ie, an average of 11 kg (24.2 lb; P < .05 vs baseline). However, patients in the testosterone group lost 3 kg (6.6 lb) more body fat than those in the placebo group (P = .05) and lost significantly less lean mass than those in the placebo group (P = .001).
Patients in the testosterone group also lost significantly more visceral adipose tissue at week 56 (P < .05).
***8220;We found that testosterone treatment reduces fat mass in obese men with a low testosterone level, more than the effects of diet alone,***8221; concluded Dr. Fui. ***8220;Testosterone treatment also reduces visceral fat, more than the effects of diet alone, and prevents diet-associated loss of lean mass and muscle function.***8221;
***8220;Although these changes are expected to be metabolically favourable, further trials in this population need to determine cardiometabolic and other benefits weighed against potential adverse effects,***8221; Dr. Fui added.
[Presentation title: Effect of Testosterone Therapy Combined With a Very Low Caloric Diet on Fat Mass in Obese Men With a Low to Low-Normal Testosterone Level: A Randomized Controlled Trial. Abstract LB-OR02-1]

_________________________________________________________________________________

Testosterone therapy in hypogonadal men results in sustained and clinically meaningful weight loss

Abstract

WHAT IS ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT THIS SUBJECT:

Hypogonadism is associated with increased fat mass and reduced muscle mass, which contributes to obesity and health risks, such as cardiovascular disease.Testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men improves muscle mass and reduces fat mass; however, many of these studies are of short duration.Thus, the long-term effects of testosterone on body anthropometry are not known.

WHAT THIS STUDY ADDS:

Long-term testosterone treatment of hypogonadal men, up to 5 years duration, produced marked and significant decrease in body weight, waist circumference and body mass index. Hypogonadism contributes to reduced muscle mass and increased adiposity.Testosterone treatment ameliorates loss of muscle mass and reduces fat accumulation associated with hypogonadism. In this study, we evaluated the long-term effects of normalizing testosterone (T) levels in hypogonadal men on anthropometric parameters. Open-label, single-center, cumulative, prospective registry study of 261 men (32-84 years, mean 59.5 ± 8.4 years, with T levels ***8804;12 nmol L-1 [mean: 7.7 ± 2.1]). Among the 261 men on T treatment, we followed up on 260 men for at least 2 years, 237 for 3 years, 195 for 4 years and 163 for at least 5 years. Subjects received parenteral T undecanoate 1000 mg every 12 weeks after an initial interval of 6 weeks. Body weight (BW), waist circumference (WC) and body mass index (BMI) were measured at baseline and yearly after treatment with T. BW decreased from 100.1 ± 14.0 kg to 92.5 ± 11.2 kg and WC was reduced from 107.7 ± 10.0 cm to 99.0 ± 9.1 cm. BMI declined from 31.7 ± 4.4 m kg-2 to 29.4 ± 3.4 m kg-2. All parameters examined were statistically significant vs. baseline and vs. the previous year over 5 years, indicating a continuous weight loss (WL) over the full observation period. The mean per cent WL was 3.2 ± 0.3% after 1 year, 5.6 ± 0.3%, after 2 years, 7.5 ± 0.3% after 3 years, 9.1 ± 0.3% after 4 years and 10.5 ± 0.4% after 5 years. The data obtained from this uncontrolled, observational, registry study suggest that raising serum T to normal physiological levels in hypogonadal men produces consistent loss in BW, WC and BMI. These marked improvements were progressive over the 5 years of the study.


KEYWORDS:

Testosterone, obesity, waist circumference, weight loss

PMID: 24163704 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC3799011 Free PMC Article

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...03-0073-f1.jpg

 

[Big_rich]

I feel no aas is a fat burner but they put your body in a state that promotes fat loss. I see it all too often thou where a member asking, I'm at 20% bf and I Wana use anavar to drop weight and that's where the issue lies. Aas is not a direct fat burner.

 

[.Vision.]

I feel no aas is a fat burner but they put your body in a state that promotes fat loss. I see it all too often thou where a member asking, I'm at 20% bf and I Wana use anavar to drop weight and that's where the issue lies. Aas is not a direct fat burner.

It's definitely an interesting topic, because there's all sorts of suggestions and evidence that could go either way...

But some things need to be put into great consideration such as:

Androgen receptors are found throughout cellular groups, as well as FAT and muscle cell/groups, now we know that they initiate a response on AR's in muscle cells to promote size/growth, at the same given time they will have a cascade of effects on other cells and AR's found therein fat cells inducing activity/burning..

Higher/more potent the androgen binds to the androgen receptors, the greater the lipolytic response will be on adipose tissue (brown or white)...

 

[Big_rich]

I feel with aas and fat loss. I feel aas compliments fat loss because aas allows your body to use what you ingest more efficiently, allows you to build more muscle which in turn increases the daily cal consumption to maintain the mass which leads to a increased deficit. Aas also allows,you to push it harder in the gym which burns more cals which again will help with weight loss. So if you look at it that way it promotes but does not burn. You can't sit on your ass inject test and loose weight this is all my opinion others may feel different but this is just my experience.

 

[.Vision.]

That is the beauty of this because it has been clinically proven that even being non active there has been clinical reports of weight loss, so whether someone is a couch potato and they use AAS, there can be a positive return but whether they deserve it or not is a different matter...

 

[.Vision.]

Nonetheless I definitely value your input and your opinion on the matter...

 

[Big_rich]

I respect that guys I'm going based off my eperience but then again I've never ran test n sat on my ass haha

 

[.Vision.]

I can say the same I have never ran any compounds and sat on my ass, now running a half ass cycle with with lack of enthusiasm I can relate to when pertains to my earlier years, and I still seen a return although I wasn't deserving of any of it.... those were the days when my diet was shit and I partied hard on the weekends and felt like shit Monday and Tuesday, giving a noble attempt in the gym on Wednesday Thursday and Friday only to repeat the cycle again...

 

[Big_rich]

Ok got a question for you guys kinda pertains to fat loss, muscle gains, and aas. Do you feel you can maintain that fat loss or muscle gain for the long term post cycle or do you think most if not all will be lost once you discontinue aas use

 

[Teutonic]

Over the years, especially lately where instant gratis' is all the rage I ve heard guru s and "dealers" alike talk both in the locker room and in the parking lot saying
Winny will cut you up
Tren burn s fat. U can eat sloppy and still shred.

Furthermore we often tell member s wanting to wade in that high body fat can be exacerbated w aas especially estro promoting one s so it stands to reason that some AAS are more apt to put us -them into a more fat loss state than say "others."

My metabolism, coupled with my "can t be lazy more than 2 day s a month" precludes me ever really getting fat. Also I fight to eat enuff to justify a big cycle for I was raised to eat till your not hungry not stuffed.

I will go out on a limb and say the massive tren I m on 50 m w f (with wee bit s of another thing or 3 ) keeps me both hot (thermogenic effects can t be discounted) and hungry and though not ripped my avi is me on any given w e anytime of the year.
I was at the beach for 2 day s and ate fried everything, 2 whoppers w chocolate shakes and fries 3 times. But my body passes that on immediately. (almost)

In summation I d say like I always s do --- AAS enhance what we genetically are..me an over educated redneck German gay porn star looking smart ass who ll never be huge again. But never fat either.
I can t sit still ; often I am waiting on the sun to rise so I can detail my car-----again. Love to push mow grass even though I got a riding mower...but that s me and it s OK.
I think people would lose fat more if they did more outside the gym in addition to in the gym. Burning energy gives me more energy. Take real walks. Climb stairs instead of elevators. I never use elevators. U meet cool peep s in the stairway--secretaries galore. I tel my son elevators are for lazy people and the infirm.

 

[.Vision.]

Ok got a question for you guys kinda pertains to fat loss, muscle gains, and aas. Do you feel you can maintain that fat loss or muscle gain for the long term post cycle or do you think most if not all will be lost once you discontinue aas use

This can be a user to user basis type instance, and levels of commitment and enthusiasm, once I stop AAS and use a maintenance dose it does prove to be challenging to maintain without the assistance,but that's part of the game, having a strict macro/training regiment..

 

[.Vision.]

Over the years, especially lately where instant gratis' is all the rage I ve heard guru s and "dealers" alike talk both in the locker room and in the parking lot saying
Winny will cut you up
Tren burn s fat. U can eat sloppy and still shred.

Furthermore we often tell member s wanting to wade in that high body fat can be exacerbated w aas especially estro promoting one s so it stands to reason that some AAS are more apt to put us -them into a more fat loss state than say "others."

My metabolism, coupled with my "can t be lazy more than 2 day s a month" precludes me ever really getting fat. Also I fight to eat enuff to justify a big cycle for I was raised to eat till your not hungry not stuffed.

I will go out on a limb and say the massive tren I m on 50 m w f (with wee bit s of another thing or 3 ) keeps me both hot (thermogenic effects can t be discounted) and hungry and though not ripped my avi is me on any given w e anytime of the year.
I was at the beach for 2 day s and ate fried everything, 2 whoppers w chocolate shakes and fries 3 times. But my body passes that on immediately. (almost)

In summation I d say like I always s do --- AAS enhance what we genetically are..me an over educated redneck German gay porn star looking smart ass who ll never be huge again. But never fat either.
I can t sit still ; often I am waiting on the sun to rise so I can detail my car-----again. Love to push mow grass even though I got a riding mower...but that s me and it s OK.
I think people would lose fat more if they did more outside the gym in addition to in the gym. Burning energy gives me more energy. Take real walks. Climb stairs instead of elevators. I never use elevators. U meet cool peep s in the stairway--secretaries galore. I tel my son elevators are for lazy people and the infirm.

You nailed this with the aspect of daily lives... I too use stairs (to a degree) and always find ways to stay active..I have a mountain bike that I use almost daily (in the AM) I may not always go far, but I get my heart rate up and pound the puddles up some serious hills for a short while..

I agree with the properties of tren, there;s way more evidence to support fat loss compare..No doubt about it..Heck even when I consume more carbs will on tren, I will burn hot and sweat more, inducing thermo so to speak, and I lean out more..

 

[halfwit]

Here's a very easy way to explain this:

What burns calories?

Muscle does. Doesn't matter if you're sitting on the couch, squatting a bazillion pounds, or hitting the track for a mile sprint. Muscles are what consume energy to keep us mobile and alive.

What does AAS do?

Promotes a nitrogen retentive state that promotes the building of muscle.

So if we take the fact that muscles burn calories, and AAS increases lean mass, we have a result of fat loss with all things being equal.

HOWEVER! Far too many folks read studies like these and assume that these are a silver bullet against obesity, and neglect two very important facts:

1. Calories in vs calories out is a rule that cannot be broken. It can be bent with regards to recompositioning the body while in a slight deficit, but not a severe change like many want to believe.

2. The body can only put to use the materials which are present. If an individual consumes their TDEE in carbohydrates only, they will not see much in terms of change. However, if diet is appropriate and macros are balanced, great things can occur. Of course, there are some exceptions to this rule, but things like crash dieting (the twinkie diet for instance) only provide a temporary change.

Like I tell every single person that asks me in the gym; diet is everything, nothing can substitute for a shitty diet, not even a truckload of anabolic androgenic steroids.

My .02c

 

[Teutonic]

The Doctor is in....

HW can always s be counted on as a layman s best friend and a uninformed or ex somebody that was someone s worst nightmare.

 

[soldier74]

Over the years, especially lately where instant gratis' is all the rage I ve heard guru s and "dealers" alike talk both in the locker room and in the parking lot saying
Winny will cut you up
Tren burn s fat. U can eat sloppy and still shred.

Furthermore we often tell member s wanting to wade in that high body fat can be exacerbated w aas especially estro promoting one s so it stands to reason that some AAS are more apt to put us -them into a more fat loss state than say "others."

My metabolism, coupled with my "can t be lazy more than 2 day s a month" precludes me ever really getting fat. Also I fight to eat enuff to justify a big cycle for I was raised to eat till your not hungry not stuffed.

I will go out on a limb and say the massive tren I m on 50 m w f (with wee bit s of another thing or 3 ) keeps me both hot (thermogenic effects can t be discounted) and hungry and though not ripped my avi is me on any given w e anytime of the year.
I was at the beach for 2 day s and ate fried everything, 2 whoppers w chocolate shakes and fries 3 times. But my body passes that on immediately. (almost)

In summation I d say like I always s do --- AAS enhance what we genetically are..me an over educated redneck German gay porn star looking smart ass who ll never be huge again. But never fat either.
I can t sit still ; often I am waiting on the sun to rise so I can detail my car-----again. Love to push mow grass even though I got a riding mower...but that s me and it s OK.
I think people would lose fat more if they did more outside the gym in addition to in the gym. Burning energy gives me more energy. Take real walks. Climb stairs instead of elevators. I never use elevators. U meet cool peep s in the stairway--secretaries galore. I tel my son elevators are for lazy people and the infirm.

Lol. Love the way u break it down brother. I've always thought my job keeps me lean...not AAS. I literally sweat for 8 hours straight at work, at least during hotter months. Painting and general construction, I compare it to cardio and a light weights workout for 8-10 hours a day. Then hit the gym after!!. Also the reason my weight stays around the same year round. What I notice AAS do for me is more so keep my muscles fuller than before I used. But yeah, I'm definantly a big fan of staying active. That alone can keep someone leaner than sitting on ass all the time. ...like kids these days...

 

[Old Duffer]

Just to add a tiny piece to HW, but not always true for AAS, this is true for me and my Dr. Prescribed TRT anyway:

When I had almost zero test, my body wanted food. Constantly. My appetite was a constant battle. Like my body knew it was missing something and was trying to find it with nutrients. Once I got my TRT going, my appetite settled down almost immediately.

Still all about calories ultimately, but appetite control can be a bitch.

 

[.Vision.]

That's the beauty of debates, you get to hear different points of views, whether one agrees or not,everyone is entitled to their share..

Now, I have some MORE overwhelming evidence that androgens DO in fact target cellular groups,and fatty tissue outside the realm of targeting AR's..There's undeniable facts citing "adipose tissue" is targeting DIRECTLY....

Muscle building,protein synthesis and increased nitrogen (increased nitrogen balance can be achieve from just diet alone,without AAS) is a completely different topic...Those instances reflect on metabolic rates,macro nutritional intake and the type of workout regiment employed..There's a series of energy conversion methods to exploit adipose tissue,but the topic is HOW AAS solely has direct or indirect targeting properties without being adding to the equation of diet or training...

Now, there will be negligence,ignorance and simply those that will rely or become dependent on AAS to substitute where they lack any actually commitment, know-how or fundamentals on which the primary fat loss principals are based on when it pertains to diet,cardio,training or a health lifestyle all together..

My case and point was to dismiss any talk that AAS does NOT directly effect adipose cells alone....



[h=1]Effect of testosterone on abdominal adipose tissue in men.[/h]Rebuffé-Scrive M1, Mårin P, Björntorp P.
[h=3]Author information[/h]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Recent studies in men have shown that abdominal fat increases with age and decreasing testosterone concentrations. Furthermore, in cell culture, testosterone expresses an increased lipolytic potential and depresses lipoprotein lipase activity (LPL) in adipose cells. These metabolic characteristics are found in abdominal adipose tissue in young men. In order to see whether abdominal fat masses in moderately obese middle-aged men might be diminished by testosterone, this hormone was given either as a single injection (500 mg) or in moderate doses (40 mg X 4) for 6 weeks in an oral preparation, bypassing the liver. When measured 1 week after the single dose, abdominal LPL tended to decrease. After 6 weeks a dramatic decrease of abdominal LPL was found, as well as an increase in the lipolytic responsiveness to norepinephrine, both changes confined solely to the abdominal, and not femoral adipose tissue regions. The waist/hip circumference decreased in 9 out of the 11 examined men. No untoward effects were seen in behavioural variables, blood pressure, triglyceride or cholesterol values, and liver function tests. These preliminary results suggest that administration of testosterone in moderate doses to middle-aged men lead to adaptations of the metabolism of adipose tissue expected to be followed by a diminution of this mass.

 

[JimiThing]

I dont think it can bee disputed that they burn body fat, they do. The thing is this, in order to get the most that aas have to offer your diet and training should be on point. I do not believe in taking aas just to burn body fat, i think that is a waste. That being said if we were to say no steroids dont burn body fat, well that just isnt true imo.

 

[.Vision.]

I dont think it can bee disputed that they burn body fat, they do. The thing is this, in order to get the most that aas have to offer your diet and training should be on point. I do not believe in taking aas just to burn body fat, i think that is a waste. That being said if we were to say no steroids dont burn body fat, well that just isnt true imo.

Exactly..Now if people utilize AAS solely just for fat burning properies in the absence of a structured diet and workout regiment, then they're surely farting peas at the moon.. Missing the picture clearly!

 

[mr.bean]

the issue is its so minimal IMO, that a crappy diet and AAS will end up with no fatloss very easily. and the people looking to aas for fat loss usually want a quick fix, magic beans if you will...
If you are already losing fat with a decent diet then go for it mates!