Feedback on last 9 months please!

[SebOz79]

Hi Guys,

Took the plunge to get on some gear about 10 months ago and whilst I've had small gains I'm feeling a bit deflated at the lack of progress and wondering where to go from here.

History is basically:

August~October 2015:

500mg Test-E + 250mg Deca per week for 10 weeks
2 weeks later PCT of 50mg Clomid + 1 vial HCG/day for 10 days

November~December 2015: Cruise @ 100mg Test-E every 10 days

Jan~March 2016:

500mg Sustanon + 400mg Equipoise per week for 10 weeks
2 weeks later PCT of 50mg Clomid + 1 vial HCG/day for 10 days

March~April 2016: Cruise @ 100mg Test-E every 10 days

May~July 2016 (10 weeks in at present):

50mg Dbol daily for weeks 1~6
750mg Test-E + 500mg Equipoise per week for weeks 1~12
500mg Test-Prop for weeks 12~16

Started way back in August last year about 92kgs and 15% bodyfat, currently about 94kgs and 12% bodyfat and have basically fluctuated between this range for the whole 10 months.

Train to failure 5 days a week, HIIT cardio 3~4 times a week, have stayed pretty strict with a 2200~2500 cal diet over the whole time as well so should be calorie deficient but just feels like I'm going nowhere.

Have had advice from a few bodybuilders who directed me to the diets and the gear dosages etc, but surely I should be seeing more results?

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

 

[Gainjin260]

Hello and welcome.

There's a lot that's wrong here. I'll only address the glaring.

How old are you? Please share your stats with us including workout history.

You're running pct into a cruise? You do not understand what pct is.

100mg of test once e10 days isn't even a TRT dose. Your cruise dose should be higher.

No ai mentioned.

You're running an awful lot of cycles in a short period of time with no real pct and 2 month cruises in between. Have you been getting bloodwork done?

250/wk deca? That dose won't do anything except lube up your joints.

1 "vial" of hcg? How many iu's? Why run it after your cycle? You should be on it consistently at 500-1000 iu per week spread out over 2 shots.

You're doing hitt 4 times a week, starving yourself and incorrectly running gear- that's why you feel,like you aren't going anywhere. That said, what are your goals?

You had no business injecting hormones with this level of knowledge. Stick around and learn.

Sorry if it sounded harsh, but you've gotta know you've been well mislead by whoever gave you advice on your cycling.

I knew when I read your title that this would be interesting. From now on ask questions first, then take action.

 

[SebOz79]

Hi Gaijin,

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

I'm 35, been working out for 20~25 years as I've been involved in elite sports since 11 or 12 years old, 6'1 11~12% bodyfat.

Just to paint some background, I actually scoured a heap of forums and have researched on and off for years before deciding to take the plunge.

I tracked down a multiple national winning bodybuilder (and coach/supervisor of gear of several other national winning bodybuilders), as I wanted to make sure I listened to someone extremely competent and my entire cycle has been direction by him.

I did think that running pct into a cruise was counter-intuitive but at the end of the day I have to trust someone with experience and go with it at some point in time.

With the AI, I've had arimidex on hand from day one but was told to only use it if needed (as I didn't know how my body would respond), so basically if I had any nipple soreness then to use it, I've had zero soreness and zero sides the entire 10 months, so haven't touched it (remains unopened in my cupboard).

Haven't got any bloodwork done, did ask that question as well but was told unless I was in any pain/discomfort or had an issues to tell me that there was a problem then there was no need, I also believe it's difficult to even get full bloodwork done here (I'm in Australia), so it's something I was initially interested in doing just to prove the efficacy of the gear, but not something I've done. The only things I've monitored have been HR, BP, etc, simple stuff, and that's all been fine.

The first PCT I actually had 10 x preloaded syringes of hcg and used that, the second time it was a vial but I forget how many iu's, was in powder form and once cracked filled up to a couple of ml's (with sterile water from memory), was a one shot thing though.

Goals were twofold (and I was happy to run different goals amongst different cycles), but basically to gain muscle/bulk and lose fat (down to 6~8% where abs are visible), and whilst I have made some gains it doesn't seem proportionate to the amount of work I've put in which has seen me become increasingly frustrated over the past few months.

Like I said, I do appreciate the feedback, I play on finishing this cycle and using pct to take a complete break (after 1 year with no break) and then trying again with hopefully a more knowledgeable approach.

I feel like I was extremely careful with who I chose to seek advice from so would be interested in other people's points of view as well as everyone seems to have a different idea.

Any recommendations for where to go from here?

Also just quickly, when on a cycle like mine is it normal to become gassy/nitrogeny when taking over 200g of protein a day? Sometimes that makes me doubt the efficacy of the gear although with the other guys he's training it's pretty clear it does/should work, so maybe it's just me.

 

[Gainjin260]

First thing to do is read all the stickies at the top of the main anabolics forum page! After you get the basics we can dig into the details together.

 

[Gainjin260]

Couple points.

No matter how big/successful your gym pals are, don't assume they know their shit. Just look at Rich Piana. You've gotta do your own research and make an informed decision.

You had NO sides from any of your cycles? Including 750/wk test currently? Maybe your gear is underdosed? Where'd you get it?

Itchy/sore nipples are not the only sides from high e. Even if you had no visible sides keeping estrogen in check is important for things like your prostate.

This is why bloodwork is critical. You take/adjust your ai based on bloodwork, not by guesswork. 7he fact that your "friends" told you not to get blood work unless you were in pain is a huge red flag (along with advising pct into a cruise). The guys you got advice from were either completely ignorant or purposefully misleading you. Again, winning multiple national titles does not garuntee proper knowledge.

Your biggest issue is most likely diet. Go to the diet section and post it for 3J to review. I think you've been starving yourself.

 

[SebOz79]

Well no sides that I know of, other than noticing an increase in libido in general over the past 9/10 months.

Gear has been from the bodybuilder, it's generally a Russian brand but I've got no way of checking if underdosed or not.

I'll post my diet for sure, and see what the feedback is, I don't really feel hungry atm, roughly having 250g protein, 100g carbs and 100g fat (from good sources) for approx 2300 cals, pretty much the whole time.

Sorry for a stupid question, but what exactly am I supposed to ask for to get bloodwork done, and have I missed the boat being mid cycle and having no base for comparison?

 

[Gainjin260]

You missed the boat 10 months ago when you were natty. You've not read the stickies yet, otherwise you'd be caught up on the whys of bloodwork.

Mid cycle checks are for estradiol mainly- to determine how to dose your ai.

Of course you do not feel hungry- your metabolism has probably slowed way down due to lack of calories for close to a year. The body adjusts to whatever you do to it over time. You've been starving yourself, body has gotten used to it.

Can somebody from Oz chime in here? How do you get bloodwork done?

 

[SebOz79]

Takes 10 hours for a moderator to approve my post so I'll write a post straight away just to get it going.

I'll go and ready through all the stickies now, believe it or not I've read thousands of pages of similar stuff over several years but do get conflicting information and decided to take this guy on trust because of his history and credentials, obviously didn't foresee myself second guessing that now.

Hope that's not true with the metabolism, because if I come off and take a break then that won't bode well for me, I'd probably stack on a heap of fat which is the last thing I want.

Just quickly though, obviously you don't feel that the past 9/10 months have been particularly effective or even close to optimal in terms of the gear, but do you think It's just a case of wasting my time somewhat or do you think there's a real chance I've done some damage?

Finally, this guy is keen on me having a crack at a comp which is in 3~4 months time, problem being that my current 16 week cycle will be extended to something like 26 weeks (the extra 10 weeks sticking on test/equipoise). He seemed pretty nonchalant about it but from what I've read before 26 weeks (6 months) seems like a crazy long time to be on a cycle and I'm worried I'll be doing myself damage if I go along with that, any thoughts on that?

Cheers!

 

[Milton]

Takes 10 hours for a moderator to approve my post so I'll write a post straight away just to get it going.


Cheers!

Sorry mate doing our best not to let this happen again.

 

[Gainjin260]

Stop listening to "that guy" immediately. Don't extend your cycle.

Your metabolism will bounce back as soon as you start giving yourself adequate sustanence. Don't sweat it. You can eat more off cycle and LOSE weight.

There's ALWAYS a chance of doing real damage when you mess with your body's hormones. You may have messed yourself up, but your system may bounce back just fine. Everybody's different and I've seen people do way worse to their bodies than you have.

I know you've done a lot of research on other sites, but please take time to learn how we do it here. This site has the most knowledgable and responsible AAS users. What you'll learn from the stickies is based off science and peer-edited papers- not bro-science.

Forget all that your gym buddy has told you.

 

[Gainjin260]

Sorry mate doing our best not to let this happen again.

Are there new rules for new users because of SEXXXYY?

 

[SebOz79]

Hi Again,

Okay I've read through every single sticky now, and read another site as well and see what people say about bloodwork.

A week before, 5 weeks in and a week after they recommend, so looks like I've missed the boat on all 3 since the week after would give me no comparison.

Guess all I can do is try and suss out how and where do get it done and after pct and a break doing it properly next time? Or is it worth me getting it done during or after current cycle do you think?

From what I can gather the main things to measure are free T, overall T, Estrogen, E2, LH, and maybe RBC, is that a pretty conclusive list?

I've posted my current diet in the 3J diet thread as suggested, doesn't look like 3J is very active though, a guy put his diet down a month ago and 3J hasn't replied to him still.

 

[Milton]

Hi Again,

Okay I've read through every single sticky now, and read another site as well and see what people say about bloodwork.

A week before, 5 weeks in and a week after they recommend, so looks like I've missed the boat on all 3 since the week after would give me no comparison.

Guess all I can do is try and suss out how and where do get it done and after pct and a break doing it properly next time? Or is it worth me getting it done during or after current cycle do you think?

From what I can gather the main things to measure are free T, overall T, Estrogen, E2, LH, and maybe RBC, is that a pretty conclusive list?

I've posted my current diet in the 3J diet thread as suggested, doesn't look like 3J is very active though, a guy put his diet down a month ago and 3J hasn't replied to him still.

He is here just busy he will be in touch asap

 

[SebOz79]

Thanks Milton

 

[Gainjin260]

Can others chime in here?

Seb is new to the boards and getting all his answers from one dude.

 

[bigben66]

So to put it simply... you've been on cycle for nearly a year!

The dude who recommended this type of AAS use needs fucking shooting!

First of all you do NOT take HCG with your PCT protocol.

Secondly, you do NOT run a PCT and then jump straight back on to exogenous drugs.

PCT stands for POST CYCLE THERAPY - the operative words here being POST CYCLE - so when you start pinning Test (no matter what the dose) straight after PCT, you haven't really come off cycle at all.

If I was you, I'd run a very aggressive 6-8 week PCT now and then take at least 6 months totally off any gear - undergoing blood tests via your doctor - to ensure you make a decent recovery.

It's time to be open and frank with your doctor, tell him you fucked up and took AAS for a lengthy period - and beg for his help.

If you aren't man enough to do this, then sort your own PCT and get the bloods done privately.

You can take the HCG between the time you stop pinning and start PCT, but DO NOT take HCG from 3 days before commencing PCT.

Good luck (I think you're going to need it!)

BigBen

EDIT: I just noticed that you are currently running Equipoise (longer ester) - so you will need to wait 24 days minimum after last Equipoise pin before commencing PCT to allow this to clear. Stop the Test Enanthate 18 days before PCT.

 

[Roush]

The dude who recommended this type of AAS use needs fucking shooting!

I thought you were anti-gun big ben

 

[SebOz79]

Thanks Big Ben,

The consensus seems to be to stock now and abandon the rest of this cycle and the comp in 3 months then.

Disappointing but obviously I want to put my health first, if I can get myself right again I'll try and get some advice on how to do it a bit more properly after a break.

So can I just run by you guys a few things then, when you say a very aggressive PCT what would that consist of? I have access to HCG, Clomid and Arimidex, HCG is 100% legit (from script), Clomid is 95% legit and Arimidex about 80% legit (best guess).

How much Hcg and at what point then do you recommend? If I understand correctly you are saying as soon as I have my last jab then run Hcg every day or every other day up to a certain amount and then time it so that I stop for 3 days and then start taking clomid (a tab a day for 10 days), something like that? I have the Arimidex and Clomid now but the Hcg will take me 1~2 weeks to get a hold of so I might have to jab one or two more times so I can get the timing all correct.

I just wont take the test-prop then as I haven't started it, and if I stop Equipoise and then 6 days later shoot my last test-e by itself and wait 18 days from that before the clomid it will line up with 18/24 as you suggest, the Hcg they recommend taking 150IU for 21 days but thats for dieting purposes, would I wait until last shot of equipoise (24 days before clomid) and then inject hcg at something like 300IU for 21 days, then 3 day break then clomid? Any need for the arimidex?

With the blood test I have no base to work off, when should I be taking the blood test then, a few weeks after finishing taking the clomid to make sure things are all good?

I can go try and go to a doc if I work out the best point in time to ask, I can give the whole lethargy, low libido speel but can only really do it once.

We don't have private clinics in Australia, everything has to go through a GP, the only clinic I know of where you can get a pathology request (albeit quite expensive) gives you:

SHBG, Estradiol, PSA
Free & total testosterone

I know this is missing LH and PSH, RBC etc but it's not able to be changed, would this be everything that I need? And at what point would I actually want my bloods taken?

Thanks for your help, there's enough doubt in my mind now that I'm not really happy continuing on to the comp, very frustrating to have worked my ass off (and been on gear) for 10 months and to not only get very little out of it but to have to keep my fingers crossed I haven't done any damage to myself :/

 

[bigben66]

I thought you were anti-gun big ben

I am buddy, pardon my euphemisms!

 

[SebOz79]

bump

sorry guys, as it takes so long for my comments to come through, they aren't appearing as new or the latest ones.