First cycle (detailed). Need assistance/feedback.

[Iron Giant]

Hello, I'm new to these forums and planning my first cycle – I'm sure you've seen this sort of thing before!

This post will outline goals, purposed cycle, stats, experience, and finally questions – in that order. The subsequent post will outline meal plan, current training plan, pre-cycle training, cycle training plan, and finally questions – in that order. Once I have presented my information I would like the input of forum members on my cycle (and/or meal plan & training if you feel so inclined). Thank you in advance for your feedback.

Goals:
Lean mass gain. My goal is to gain and keep at least 15 Lbs of lean muscle mass while keeping water retention and fat gain to an absolute minimum (do not exceed 12-13% BF over the course of cycle). I am considering a Testosterone-Enanthate or Testosterone-Cypionate only cycle, as my first cycle.

Purposed Cycle:
#1:
Week 1-12 Testosterone-Enanthate or Testosterone-Cypionate: 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 13-15 Take nothing and let the testosterone begin to clear out
Week 16-17 Nolvadex 40mg per day
Week 18-19 Nolvadex 20mg per day


#2:
Week 1-10 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 1-15 Nolvadex 20mg each day
Week 12-15 Clomid *14 days after last shot.
PCT (Beginning on week 12):
Day1: 300mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-11: 100mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 12-21: 50mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex.

Notes:
Rotating injection sites with:
22 or 23 Gauge, 1.5 Inch is ideal for injections into the glutes.
22 or 23 Gauge, 1.0 inch is ideal for injections into the delts/quads.

Stats:
Age: 23
Height: 6’4”
Weight: 180 Lbs
Body fat: ~8%
Current BMR: ~1993.4-to-1996.2
Chest (around): 42”
Shoulder – Shoulder: 20”
Arms: 14”
Legs: 21.5”
Build: Tall with long limbs, i.e. Ectomorph. I do not look skinny, but I do not looked jacked – I am in the middle ground and have a difficult time building significant arm mass.
Note: Measurements usually increase by 1-3” after 8-10 weeks of natural
bulk phase and then a naturally impassible plateau occurs.

Experience:
3yrs of lifting experience. Used to be overweight, pushing 260 Lbs. I decided to make a change and began working out. First year I was an absolute rookie, neglected my diet and trained 6 times a week. After the first year I smartened up and corrected my training approach, and began to work on my diet. After about 1.5 years I had my diet and training dialed in. A rugby injury put me out of the game for 4 months and an additional 2 months was spent recovering from that injury. This last year (year 3) my diet and training have been absolutely immaculate – quit drinking all together in Sept. 2011.

I have found through my experience that in any of my bulking phases I plateau and gains stop at about 8-9 weeks in. I have been able to push past this previously by adding in negatives, drop sets, etc. However, on my last two bulking phase I hit a wall – was unable to break through the plateau.

Questions/Concerns:
1. I am worried about igf-1 dropping once I'm off test and on my post cycle therapy (pct). Which of the above two cycles (#1 or #2) would you recommend? What is the reasoning?
2. Can I extend the test duration of cycle #2 by 2 weeks (from 10 weeks to 12 weeks) 'safely'? Or should I stick to 10 weeks?
3. I'm after a lean gain (do not increase to more than 12-13% BF while on cycle), would a Test-prop / Winstrol (winny) cycle be better?
4. I was prone to acne (on my upper back) while I was overweight (no doubt due to my diet habits), should I take anything to help control cholesterol while on my cycle (my diet plan has more whole eggs and red meat in it while bulking)?
5. My source wishes to also run a cycle, but wants to start sooner than I do. What is the shelf life of Test-Enanthate, Test-Cypionate, Nolvadex, & Clomid? I'm assuming it will be fine sitting on a shelf in my basement for the next 3 months, but I want to verify that I will not lose any potency, etc. versus it being 'fresh'.
6. Are there any special storage considerations for Test-Enanthate, Test-Cypionate, Nolvadex, & Clomid? i.e. Does it have to be refrigerated (I don't believe it does – once more I wish to confirm).
7. Alternative cycle suggestions to meet my goals?

 

[Iron Giant]

My general bulking meal plan:
Calories:
Workout days, aim to consume 20-to-22 calories per pound of body weight for the day. On non-training days, reign in the calories just a bit, since I won't be expending as many. Cut intake down to about 17-to-18 calories per pound of body weight.

Macro’s
1.5-to-2 grams of protein per pound of lean body weight.

On workout days, consume 2-to-3 grams of carbs per pound of lean body weight. And on rest days, drop carbs to 1-to-1.5 grams, since I won't be burning up carbs in the gym. I tend to gain fat easily from carbs – even though I stick to complex sources, except for post workout. As such, these amounts will adjust accordingly based on amount of fat gain.

For fat intake, I consume 1/3-to-1/2 grams of fat per pound of lean body weight per day. One-third of that saturated, 1/3 monounstaurated fat, and the other 1/3 should omega-3 polyunsaturated fats.
*Note: Fats are equally spaced throughout the day and increased on carb free meals later in the evening (no carbs within 4hrs of sleeping).

Every 1-to-2 weeks include one monster calorie day which aims to consume 25-to-27 calories per pound of lean body weight (1-2 cheat meals that day or carb re-feeds) to ‘trick’ my metabolism and prevent stagnation. This monster day is almost always on a training day.

Sample meal plan:
Monday (off day): 17-to-18 calories per pound of body weight
Tuesday (training day): 20-to-22 calories per pound of body weight
Wednesday (off day): 17-to-18 calories per pound of body weight
Thursday (training day): 20-to-22 calories per pound of body weight
Friday (off day): 17-to-18 calories per pound of body weight
Saturday (training day): 25-to-27 calories per pound of body weight (Monster day)
Sunday (training day): 20-to-22 calories per pound of body weight

My alternative bulking meal plan:
2 weeks of bulking (heavy caloric surplus) with monster day at the start of week 2.
2 weeks of below maintenance calories (caloric restriction)
Repeat for duration of cycle.
*Calories and Macro’s remain same as “my general bulking meal plan” (on the higher end of the spectrum)

Notes:
The above diets are composed of all clean food sources, and more calorie dense foods are favoured (e.g. lean beef).
Supplements include pre-workout, whey & casein proteins, BCAA’s, Glutamine, Multivitamin, Fish Oil, Flax Seed Oil and Creatine (HCL currently).
Meals are consumed within every 3hrs.
Following this meal plan puts me consistently at 500-to-1000 caloric surplus per day (1500-to-2000 on monster days.)
Weekly or Bi-weekly weigh-ins + calliper to adjust calories and macro’s as needed.

Current training:
Currently I am in a cutting phase running circuits with 2 days of steady state cardio (SSC) on off days and HIIT following my circuit on the final training session each week. Previous to this I ran 4 days on per week (Legs/Back/Off/Chest/Off/Shoulders/Off) with a mixture of HIIT and SSC following my workouts to help drop the fat.

Sample Training Plan:
Monday (training day): Lower Body Circuit.
Tuesday (off day): 20-to-30 minutes of steady state morning cardio (to keep heart healthy).
Wednesday (training day): Upper Body Circuit.
Thursday (off day): 20-to-30 minutes of steady state morning cardio (to keep heart healthy).
Friday (training day): Full Body Circuit, followed by HIIT.
Saturday (off day): Rest.
Sunday (off day): Rest.

Pre-cycle Training:
I plan to continue running circuits until the last big of fat drops off my lower abs or September rolls around (whichever comes first). The majority of my 8% BF is concentrated on my lower abs – the rest of my body is very lean. Beginning in September or when the fat rolls off I will switch to “pre-cycle training” or bulking, which will consist of a 4 days on per week and rep range of 6-to-10. During this pre-cycle training I will use the “alternative bulking meal plan” and do some pre-cycle bulking for an 8 week period. Usually around the 8-to-9 week mark my gains start to plateau, this is when I will take a week off – I will be heavily travelling during this week, so a week to fully recover is nicely timed. Following this week off I will begin my cycle and switch over to cycle training.

Sample Training Plan:
Monday (off day): Rest
Tuesday (training day): Shoulders, Traps & 20-to-30 minutes of SSC (to keep heart healthy).
Wednesday (off day): Chest & Core.
Thursday (training day): Rest
Friday (off day): Rest.
Saturday (training day): Legs & 20-to-30 minutes of SSC (to keep heart healthy).
Sunday (training day): Back & Core.

Cycle Training:
My favourite training split is 4 days on per week (Off/On/Off/On/Off/On/On). Each day focuses on 3-to-4 large compound lifts, with 3-to-4 sets and 1-to-2 isolation lifts with 2-to-3 sets to round off the day. Rep range while bulking is 8-to-12.

Sample Training Plan:
Monday (off day): 20-to-30 minutes of steady state morning cardio (to keep heart healthy).
Tuesday (training day): Chest & Tri’s
Wednesday (off day): 20-to-30 minutes of steady state morning cardio (to keep heart healthy).
Thursday (training day): Shoulders, Traps & Core
Friday (off day): Rest.
Saturday (training day): Back & Bi’s (Monster day)
Sunday (training day): Legs & Core
* Any body part which is severely lagging will be trained in place of core on Sunday’s.

Questions/Concerns:
1. My workouts are first thing in the morning (before work), except on Saturday and Sunday. As such, my only fuel source in the morning is the previous day’s calories and an apple + whey protein shake in the morning. The majority of carbs on these morning training days are consumed throughout the day (post workout). I use this workout schedule due to my job – occasionally I may work a 10-to-12hr day instead of an 8hr day unexpectedly. The gym is also empty in the mornings (swarming with people in the evening hours).
a. Is this a serious issue for bulking? Should I gamble with my work schedule and lift in the evenings on weekdays so I have more fuel in my system?
2. I have a tendency to gain fat easily, even while eating clean once I begin to go into caloric surplus. I have found the “alternative bulking meal plan” to be most effective at allowing me to bulk while staying relatively lean, but to be less effective at putting on size than the “general bulking meal plan”.
a. My goal is to gain and keep at least 15 Lbs of lean muscle mass while keeping water retention, bloating and fat gain to a bare minimum. Which diet plan would you suggest I follow while on my cycle?
3. I currently use a Creatine-HCL, would a Creatine Monohydrate be a better choice for bulking? Monohydrate has widely been hailed as the king of creatines for bulking, but I find I get that soft, marshmallow look using it. I have comparable results while taking a Creatine-HCL and much prefer it, as it allows me to stay leaner, require no loading phase and is micro dosed.

 

[SonOfZeu$]

Holy shit one good ass thread. Your first cycle purpose is great, theres no point of running nolva during your cycle unless your getting a lump. I used it when i had a small lump with letro to clear it out on cycle at 20mg eod.
#1:
Week 1-12 Testosterone-enanthate or Testosterone-cypionate: 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 13-15 Take nothing and let the testosterone begin to clear out
Week 16-17 Nolvadex 40mg per day
Week 18-19 Nolvadex 20mg per day

I would add clomid into your post cycle therapy (pct) at 100/100/50/50. Also have an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on hand for the the gyno and like you stated for the water retention to stay as low as possible, to keep it even lower do cardio and keep the sodium downnnn. Buy an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like Liquid Dex from our source Ar; run it 50mcg EOD from day one till your last week before being done with your post cycle therapy (pct), for e rebound.

Make sure your lifting hard, sleeping, eating clean 2-3k calories ed and i believe you will get to where you want to be. Welcome to ogly bro.

 

[grind4it]

Lol! Damn son, most of us have ADD. That's one long post! No disrespect, bro you have a lot of natural growing to do. 6' 4" and 180# your diet needs major work. The reason you are plateauing naturally is because you arnt eatting enough.

I get that you are a former fatty and I congradulate you for losing the weight. But what I'm reading is a guy who is afraid of getting fat again. This fear is going to lead to you wasting a cycle. The plateauing you experiance while doing natural bulking will occur while on gear. When you start gaining weight you have to continue to add calories.

You obviously have studied and planned. IMO, you are way under weight and need desperately to address this before you consider roids.

Just my .02 cents

Good luck
Grind

 

[TheMilkMan]

Well thought out and a good post. With that being said, post this back in a year after you have eaten a steady 4k calories a day and have training for strength/power with heavy compound movements. I promise you, you will gain a ton of weight and size.

As a side note, I too am 6'4" and I did not cycle until I was 225lbs and benching 315.

I like the 12 week cycle and I also like ony injecting 1x a week. It's plenty and you will not see any major changes or fluctuation in hormone levels.

I prefer my PCT with both Clomid and Nolva. 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolva everyday for 5 weeks.

 

[SmilingBob]

Damn bro, way to make a first post. You keep hitting a plateau every few months from your diet. You are doing lots of cardio and eating maintenance calories. From your goals, you need to be eating above your maintenance. If you want to get bigger, you should just be eating more and training heavier. I recommend you re-evaluate your plan to get big and go at it naturally for a year or more. Your goal is definitely possible naturally with the right training and diet, just not in 12 weeks.

1. If you then want to get on board with this cycle, my suggestion would be proposed cycle #1 and your general bulking diet. If you have real gear and proper nutrition then you will not lose much weight during PCT (mostly water weight). Worrying about igf-1 levels during PCT of your first cycle sounds to me like you are caught up in the details too much to see the big picture. To grow muscles with that cycle, you must eat and eat.
2. 12 weeks is fine
3. I would stick with test e or cyp your first time. You are skinny and need to get bigger. Lean gains are made very slowly. It is possible, but from what i've seen more gains are made from getting big then cutting down.
4. Shower twice a day with a soap without lotion in it. Helped me out. Tanning also helps they say.
5. Keep it in a cool dark place. Your basement will be fine.


1. I prefer to lift in the afternoon even when I know I will be working outside all day. I am stronger and have more intense workouts in the evening.
2. I think if you want to hold onto 15 lbs of muscle then there is going to be more fat/water retention than you would like to see, but I don't know a way around that. Its unrealistic to want pure muscle and no bloat with that much test. You might want to consider an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) like arimidex to help keep estrogen from creeping up during cycle.
3. Since you are so concerned with bloat I would avoid the creatine altogether.

Good luck with whatever road you go down.

 

[Iron Giant]

Thanks! I do my research and I like to be thorough, so I can avoid any 'complications' hopefully - after all, I am messing with my hormones!

I would like to thank you all for your input and advice - especially SonOfZeu$, TheMilkMan, and SmilingBob. After considering what you had to say and a little more research, here is my revised cycle:

Week 1-12 Testosterone-Enanthate or Testosterone-Cypionate: 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 1-15 Armidex .25 mg/ED or .50mg EOD
Week 13-15 Take nothing (excluding Armidex) and let the testosterone begin to clear out
Week 16-17 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and Clomid (100mg per day)
Week 18-19 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and Clomid (50mg per day)
PCT: Day1: 300mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-14: 100mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 14-28: 50mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex.

How does it look?

I had my blood work, vitals, measurements, etc. done today. My official weight is 179.3 and my body fat is 4% (threw my cheap caliper in the garbage after that). I have some loose skin on my lower abs that needs surgery to fix (or to be filled out), but what does 179.3 and 4% BF mean? It means my natural bulking cycle starts Monday! This will give me 14-to-16 weeks of natural bulking, followed by a week off before my cycle (plenty of time to pack on the mass and assess if I'm ***8220;heavy***8221; enough to cycle). I'll be rolling the 'alternative meal plan' while bulking naturally, then switching to the 'general meal plan' for the cycle (will adjust accordingly based on results).

Questions
1. I'm going to purchase extra gear, just in case anything goes wrong! (i.e. drop a vial, etc.). Do you think 2 extra weeks worth of Test-E or Test-C, 1 extra weeks worth of Armidex and 1-2 weeks worth of extra Nolva and Clomid is enough?

Note: grind4it something tells me you have ADD and didn't bother to read the entire post (yes it is long). My diet is there when I'm bulking and when I'm not (guess you missed the bit about being on the tail end of a cutting phase currently). However,you do have a point with "you are way under weight and need desperately to address this before you consider roids" - I agree; see above.

 

[SmilingBob]

It looks like a solid plan now. Well thought out. I know I couldn't justify the extra cost of roids for a few weeks for a "just in case" scenario, but if you like to be over-prepared then that much extra gear should cover most mess-ups.

My official weight is 179.3 and my body fat is 4%

That is skinny! That number must be off because you say you do not look skinny, yet 4% to me means you are barley alive. With or without a bf%, 6' 4 and 180, you're definitely ready for a good bulking run to say the least.

 

[Iron Giant]

Thanks SmilingBob! How much extra gear do you think would be sufficient as a "just in case"? 500mg Test-E / Test-C, and 1/2 a weeks worth of Armidex, Nolva & Clomid? (my wallet is also having a hard time justifying the "extra" haha).

That is skinny! That number must be off because you say you do not look skinny, yet 4% to me means you are barley alive. With or without a bf%, 6' 4 and 180, you're definitely ready for a good bulking run to say the least.

It's probably pretty close, I had it checked at the doctors with my blood work. Managed to do a pretty decent job of keeping my muscle mass in tact while cutting, so it's a lean look I have right now. I agree with you though, I hate being this light - I will miss my 8 pack abs though (something tells me they're not going to last).

Thanks again for the information and help!

 

[H 3 L L S M A N]

Lol! Damn son, most of us have ADD. That's one long post! No disrespect, bro you have a lot of natural growing to do. 6' 4" and 180# your diet needs major work. The reason you are plateauing naturally is because you arnt eatting enough.

I get that you are a former fatty and I congradulate you for losing the weight. But what I'm reading is a guy who is afraid of getting fat again. This fear is going to lead to you wasting a cycle. The plateauing you experiance while doing natural bulking will occur while on gear. When you start gaining weight you have to continue to add calories.

You obviously have studied and planned. IMO, you are way under weight and need desperately to address this before you consider roids.

Just my .02 cents

Good luck
Grind

I agree, that weight is extremely skinny even for a 6' guy. To the OP you have defiantly done your research but I feel you lack the foundation needed to start AAS. I would suggest putting more into your diet and get in the mindset that growing and gains are made out side the gym, working out is the fun part the rest of it is the hard part.

 

[mike428]

This thread and your posts are very similar to my thread recently (steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/629874-first-test-e-cycle-thorough-plan-need-criticism.html)

I had to go back and check again to see if I was in my thread or not haha.

I'm glad you decided to put the armidex in, I've been told by many that it's good to have in your cycle. Also no hCG ? (If you want to creep over and look at my cycle), it's a lot like yours with hCG. I also decided to add in clomid for my post cycle therapy (pct). Same way you're using it. And just like you, I've been overly prepping and am contemplating buying extra. But I think an extra test wouldn't be bad if you can afford it (I will do that). But personally, its the nolva, clomid and armidex that I will stock up on. Because, well, they're just that much more important hah.

But when are you planning on starting your cycle? (just out of curiousity) and also 4% bf? That's ridiculous, I'd like to see pics if you have them. And I agree that you seem a little under weight (I'm 5'8" and 165...then again), but everyone holds weight different and to each their own.

I wish you the best of luck bud!

 

[grind4it]

Bro, I wasn't trying to be a dick. I think you're doing the right thing starting with the natural bulk.

Have you considered working with one of the online nutritionist, like 3J? The reason I ask, is because these guys will keep an eye on you (you send weekly pictures and measurements). They will see you from the outside. We all have a self image and rarely is it accurate (I'm including myself in that statement). A lot of times I stop short... For whatever reasons and it is nice having someone else driving me. We can all do it on our own, but sometimes we get to the end result faster when we have someone helping. Just food for thought.

Side note; 4%BF? Bro, Im not sure what your measurement method is but, if that's accurate you are close to death. That's only healthy for very short periods... Like competition. To stay in that state can be very unhealthy.

Just for the record, I do have ADD

Thanks! I do my research and I like to be thorough, so I can avoid any 'complications' hopefully - after all, I am messing with my hormones!

I would like to thank you all for your input and advice - especially SonOfZeu$, TheMilkMan, and SmilingBob. After considering what you had to say and a little more research, here is my revised cycle:

Week 1-12 Testosterone-Enanthate or Testosterone-Cypionate: 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 1-15 Armidex .25 mg/ED or .50mg EOD
Week 13-15 Take nothing (excluding Armidex) and let the testosterone begin to clear out
Week 16-17 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and Clomid (100mg per day)
Week 18-19 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and Clomid (50mg per day)
PCT: Day1: 300mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-14: 100mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 14-28: 50mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex.

How does it look?

I had my blood work, vitals, measurements, etc. done today. My official weight is 179.3 and my body fat is 4% (threw my cheap caliper in the garbage after that). I have some loose skin on my lower abs that needs surgery to fix (or to be filled out), but what does 179.3 and 4% BF mean? It means my natural bulking cycle starts Monday! This will give me 14-to-16 weeks of natural bulking, followed by a week off before my cycle (plenty of time to pack on the mass and assess if I'm ***8220;heavy***8221; enough to cycle). I'll be rolling the 'alternative meal plan' while bulking naturally, then switching to the 'general meal plan' for the cycle (will adjust accordingly based on results).

Questions
1. I'm going to purchase extra gear, just in case anything goes wrong! (i.e. drop a vial, etc.). Do you think 2 extra weeks worth of Test-E or Test-C, 1 extra weeks worth of Armidex and 1-2 weeks worth of extra Nolva and Clomid is enough?

Note: grind4it something tells me you have ADD and didn't bother to read the entire post (yes it is long). My diet is there when I'm bulking and when I'm not (guess you missed the bit about being on the tail end of a cutting phase currently). However,you do have a point with "you are way under weight and need desperately to address this before you consider roids" - I agree; see above.

 

[SmilingBob]

How much extra gear do you think would be sufficient as a "just in case"? 500mg Test-E / Test-C, and 1/2 a weeks worth of Armidex, Nolva & Clomid?

IMO, there is not much to mess up on. I mean, besides dropping an entire vial or flushing your post cycle therapy (pct) down the toilet, its hard to waste any. Even if you aspirate and get blood in your syringe, just change the needle for a fresh one and go at it again. No wasted gear.

But, to cover all your bases and cross your t's etc., I think what you have listed will be sufficient except possibly get more adex (maybe a full week extra) since you are using it longer than any other compound.

Good luck bro, and start eating!

 

[Iron Giant]

@H 3 L L S M A N
Tomorrow starts the natural bulk, I agree I need a better foundation. The cycle I'm proposing would begin in either November or December (assuming I've naturally gained a suitable amount of weight, otherwise postponed slightly).

@mike428
I read through your thread while doing my baseline research, and when I went back to compare similarities, well, I also had to do a double take lol. The reason I didn't put hCG in to begin with was to minimize the # of injects (I also considered blasting it after my cycle). However, I have changed my mind on the subject and decided to add it at 500iu/week (see below) after your post and some further research.

@grind4it
You came off as a bit of a dick, but I appreciate your input. You make a very good point about the nutritionist, I've considered it, but ultimately couldn't justify spending the money. The cycle I'm planning will tap all my remaining ***8220;free***8221; funding for the year (my boss needs to start paying me more)...I also bought a new sled lol. Some large fancy looking caliper at the Doc's ***8211; I've only been at 4% for 2-3 weeks for a calendar competition within my job place, hah!

@SmilingBob
Thanks again!

Third Revision:
Week 1-12 Testosterone-enanthate or Testosterone-cypionate: 500mg per week (250mg Tuesday, 250mg Saturday - or similar 3 day gap)
Week 1-13 hCG 500iu/Week (250iu every 3 days, following Test-E/C injects. ie. Sunday & Wednesday)
Week 1-15 Armidex .25 mg/ED or .50mg EOD
Week 13-15 Take nothing (excluding Armidex and hCG [week 13]) and let the testosterone begin to clear out
Week 16-17 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and clomid (100mg per day)
Week 18-19 Nolvadex (20mg per day) and clomid (50mg per day)
PCT: Day1: 300mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 2-14: 100mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex
Day 14-28: 50mg clomid + 20mg Nolvadex.

 

[Iron Giant]

@topbod
Sorry for the delay in responding to your message (private messaging is not working for me). I first considered the idea of gear about a year ago and have been sporadically researching them since. The last two months have really been the most serious of that, and these forums quiet helpful. Overall if I put my research on a scale of 1-10, it would rank 8.5. I'm still trying to figure out the proper ratio's and method for mixing and injecting hCG, otherwise I think i'm okay.

 

[thades]

Depending on how you respond, you might want to up the nolva to 40mg ed for the first two weeks of post cycle therapy (pct). Might also want to consider an Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) blast for 10 days before you start post cycle therapy (pct). Besides that, your third revision looks good.

 

[Iron Giant]

@thades
You would blast Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) 10 days before PCT even while using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) on cycle?

 

[TheMilkMan]

Iron Giant. Do as you please but you should not be starting any cycling now. If you cycle, you'll get to 200lbs and still be sort of skinny. Your research was done and I appreciate that but I think you need to get your diet and training in order first.

I would give yourself a year, train and eat right, get to 200-210 naturally and then reconsider everything. Remember, steroid use is not a one time sort of thing.