soldier74
avi changes as i do
Second that!!^^^
First cycle help test and anavr
- Thread starter gruntwerk
- Start date
Second that!!^^^
Thanks bro appreciate it.
I am torn if I should continue to cut thru my cycle, I'm sick of cutting now as I was 25% plus BF when I got back on the horse. I feel like I have been cutting forever, but I also know it's a good chance to put on newbie gains if I eat to grow so it's a hard toss up for me. Part of me is considering even running maintainence calories thru it for a more of a recomp approach.
Either way I have some time to think it out, trying to drop a few more lbs of BF before I kick it off. And I most definitely will be keeping a log here with photos and such.
I see my other post came up now too, really looking forward to learning from you guys and this adventure!
soldier74
avi changes as i do
Cool brother. I'm sure the right option/answer will come to you. Stay diligent at it. Will be looking forward to following your log.
bigben66
New member
My 02 cents....
Get that bodyfat down some more.... no point having muscle that you can't see...
Let's just say I was going to run a clean bulk.... I still wouldn't look to go much higher than 16-18% bodyfat - so with that in mind, you're still way too high.
And higher bodyfat = more potential aromatisation issues.
I think you may have missed something in my initial post, I am currently 16%... When I started cutting nearly 6 months ago I was 25% or more.
I was just saying it's been so long cutting now that I'm sort of tired of it, that's why I was trying to decide if I wanted to continue to cut thru cycle and get really lean or run maint or a little higher to capitalize on the gains.
So just so it's known, I would never run a cycle at 25%. The plan is to continue to drop weight until May, I suspect I can make it to 14-15% then.
Cool thanks for the response!
So as long as my diet and training are in check, whether I want to bulk or strictly lean out its attainable with test only. In my case minimal lean muscle, strength and vascularity and of course abs.
That's what they're telling me!! I have similar goals, was mostly looking into the cycle to spare muscle. Still trying to sort that out though, I got time as I would like to drop a touch more BF before I start.
Haha yeah same here, my bf is a bit high. Let's get it done!!!!
Roush
I am banned!
absolutely . your diet is going to dictate on wither you bulk of cut. running test while going into a calorie deficit is a great way to stay anabolic (anti catabolic) and maintain muscle mass while cutting. OR go into a calorie surplus running 600mg of test and bulk up and add some muscle.. just depends on your goals, adjust diet accordingly
bigben66
New member
Dude...with respect.
I sincerely question your work ethic, training regimen and diet - if it has taken you 6 months to drop from 25% to 16%.
I'd be looking to do that in weeks rather than months.
In fact last Spring, post-operative tricep reattachment, I dropped from 25% to around 7/8% in 12 weeks - and that was just diet, limited and restricted weight training and the odd cardio session.
And before you assume it was the AAS that did all the work - I cycled nothing but Test and Deca.
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Dude...with respect.
I sincerely question your work ethic, training regimen and diet - if it has taken you 6 months to drop from 25% to 16%.
I'd be looking to do that in weeks rather than months.
In fact last Spring, post-operative tricep reattachment, I dropped from 25% to around 7/8% in 12 weeks - and that was just diet, limited and restricted weight training and the odd cardio session.
And before you assume it was the AAS that did all the work - I cycled nothing but Test and Deca.
I'm not really sure man, I know I put the work in that's for sure. Cardio 5 days a week after lifting and fasted cardio 3 days a week ok top of that.
I usually do 4-5 lifts per muscle group with 4 sets of each, two sets being heavy and two sets being light weight high rep.
I suspect it would be my diet as I wasn't going very low of the deficit or being entirely anal about it. I know I could have been losing much more had I made my diet as strict as it is now from the get go but I didn't. I believe I was only dropping a half pound a week but mind you that was with barely a deficit.. I believe I was only 200-300 below maint.
I whole heartedly respect your opinion but I believe there is a difference in the way you cut versus the way I was going, biggest factor being you're learned exactly how you need to eat to cut optimally. I'm still learning the best ways to go about cutting so I did it slow.
Thanks for your input though, just remember I'm not lieing about putting in the work.. I don't give up on goals and I don't quit. I know many new guys on here say oh yeah I put in the work but they're actually talking and messing around, that's not this guy. I have the discipline to achieve my goals.
soldier74
avi changes as i do
Man, your good brother! If only more guys took the approach your taking with the attitude you have. You will get the results your after, I believe. Just stay the course. Ben does have a lot of this nailed down and I'll bet his expectations for himself are quite high, so sometimes those expectations trickle down to us as it's engrained in his character. Shit, just take his input as free training advise from a pro, that's what it is! Speaking for myself sometimes I need a swift kick to get me going..lol. but in all seriousness, if you stay open minded, you can take a ton of positive input from this site and the guys on it. Just try not to let the ways comments come across throw you off, that way you don't miss the message.;-) Stay Stong-Soldier.
Thanks brother!
And I do appreciate BigBens advice, it's awesome to be getting input from someone who actually competes. With that said, I think you seen what I was getting at... I wasn't trying to say that I couldn't have made more progress, but rather it may take him a few weeks in what takes me a few months to accomplish. He's right that it should have been quicker but like I said the first 3 months of cutting I wasn't strict on my diet or keeping a close enough eye on my calories. I also didn't have a goal to drop it super fast.. I was just going with the flow. I'm sure with the knowledge you have bigben you can easily map out how much body fat you should lose by when, and how to exactly to do it. I'm still trying to learn all that stuff but I will get better with it.
I never take any constructive critisism in a bad way and I know you dudes only mean the best... if my progress for 6 months isn't what it should TRULY be then that's what I want to here. Now I know I need to fix my diet more, change things up... etc.
I do believe I am going to continue to cut thru my cycle to get as lean as I possibly can. If I can make it to 12-14% by May then I'll be okay to go I think, I would like to get below 10 well on cycle and keep my lean mass, possibly even gain some muscle in the mean time.
Next question is... is a sus blend okay to use first run just as eth or cyp? I'll have the eth too but there is a killer deal in the near future on sus as well.
oldmusclemike
Well-known member
What a good thread !
What a good thread !
Well I sure have learned a ton, I believe I have to much fruit in my diet and that's hindering my cut. I'm definitely eating to much of it later in the day at least so I need to work on centering carbs more around workout and morning only.
bigben66
New member
If you want my opinion, then 99% of a 'diet' is down to mindset....
My year is mapped out for me, I know when I need to be lean and when I can eat with freedom and bulk....
When I am approaching 'cut time' - I assess my physique and work out how many weeks I will need to be ripped... let's say for example 12 weeks.
So I take my event, work back 12 weeks from that date and my cut date is set.... the weeks leading up to that date is all about adjusting my mindset and preparing my game face.
I'll text family and friends, tell them I'll be going off-radar from social events etc - I'll buy my supps, AAS and food in advance wherever possible - and come cut day, it's game on.
So you pretty much summed up why you have only made slow progress in your above post where I have highlighted.
It's not about knowledge, or something I have that you don't - it's purely mindset.
If I'm going to do something, I do not GO WITH THE FLOW - I get shit done!
Simple as that really.
And let's face it... if you're dabbling in AAS, risking your health, spending copious amounts of money on drugs and ancillaries, not to mention food, gym fees and supps - why the fuck would you just 'go with the flow'?
It's a no-brainer for me.
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bigben66
New member
Yup, fruit is the 1st thing I drop on a shred brother - give or take a dozen blueberries in my morning oats and egg pancake.
bigben66
New member
No!!!!!
Why complicate matters....
Single ester test = easy to dial in AI
Quadruple ester test = more peaks and troughs and harder to dial in AI.
LOL are you doing this on purpose!!??
And before you ask.... I've used ALL forms of Test before (Sustanon was my original TRT drug) - and there is a difference in AI protocol.
Keep it simple
No!!!!!
Why complicate matters....
Single ester test = easy to dial in AI
Quadruple ester test = more peaks and troughs and harder to dial in AI.
LOL are you doing this on purpose!!??
And before you ask.... I've used ALL forms of Test before (Sustanon was my original TRT drug) - and there is a difference in AI protocol.
Keep it simple
Lmao bigben no man I swear it's not on purpose, it was just a good deal so I figured I would ask... Maybe sust would be okay on the second cycle? I see what you're saying about the AI with the different esters. Anyway I swear I'm not trying to push your buttons, I tend to over think anything I do which leads me to to a lot of questions.
Next I would like to thank you for all these detailed responses, I didn't quote post because I don't know how haha. Really cool of you and some of the other dudes keep popping in to help.
As for the diet and all that... This whole cutting thing is new to me, not new in a sense of just trying to drop weight but new in the sense of trying to do it so precisely. During my time in the army I are relatively healthy, and by that I mean I lots of fruits, veggies and lean meats in order to obtain all the nutrients, probably a little too much read meat honestly. With that said once I ate a decent amount of normal whole foods for the day I would also add in plenty of treats or unhealthy snacks. The way we did PT didn't focus to much on weight lifting of gaining a ton of mass, as you probably assume it was more based of functional fitness. Lots of pull-ups, push-ups, battle drills with all your battle ran on, running, ruck/road marches. It kept me in good shape in terms of being healthy and delopyment ready, and with the way I ate I stayed healthy but I wouldn't lose nor gain weight, no gain in muscle either. I could run for hours, hump my battle rattle for days on end in Iraq but I never was able to get the physique I wanted, granted I was a work horse but it wasn't getting me the look I wanted. And of course the food choices well deployed weren't great... Sometimes we had tuna packed up to take out but when we would run out it could be awhile waiting for the next package in the mail, and on top of that we may not come back to the actual base for 2-3 months so we're forced to eat and workout in small combat out posts. We would make the best of it and beat on a big old mrap tire, flip the tire and all that stuff, but then lack of good chow didn't make for the best PWO meals.
Then once I got injured my life sort of spiraled out of control, let me health go to crap... I feel much better now though, took awhile to get out of the funk but I've been okay for awhile now.
So for my diet I was basically just eating "healthy" restricted calories, not plotting a real cutting diet with timing of my carbs or anything. I think it's amazing you have a whole year planned out for your physique, routine and diet.... as a former soldier I truly admire the amount of dedication there. After I continue to research and plan I would hope I can do the same thing at some point, I really have to agree on the mindset... And I believe the whole mindset is something I can control. I am pretty good about practicing self discipline.
Man I really love fruit...... how about veggies that have some sugar like tomatoes or green peppers?
Thanks again!!!
Wanted to add in - would you care to share what supplements you run well cutting? I'm curious honestly.
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bigben66
New member
First off, let me congratulate you for all that you've done.... I know I'm a Brit, but I know only too well what you guys have been doing, the shit you've seen and the trauma you've endured.... so hats off man. Respect.
Now back to the subject.
It comes down to a simple equation. Calories in v Calories out.
Everyone has a TDEE figure (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) if you don't know yours yet. Find it out.
Use the Harris-Benedict formula (google it)
If you CONSISTENTLY keep calories IN below your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) you will lose weight... drop too low and your metabolism will grind to a halt (which is why all these fad juice diets fail so miserably) - because as soon as they revert to a normal diet, back on goes the weight.
What you choose to have in those allotted calories is entirely up to you.
ie: TDEE = 2800 calories
Client 1 consumes 20 bags of potato chips a day coming in at 2600 kcals - he does this every day - he loses weight.
Client 2 consumes 20 salads a day coming in at 3200 kcals - he does this daily - he gains weight.
Yes of course, Client 2 is getting a much higher nutritional value in his meals - but he is getting a surplus of calories and if done consistently he will add weight. Client 1 is getting pretty much zero nutritional value and his hair, skin, teeth etc will suffer in time - but he will lose weight.
So with regard to my own personal cutting - before my cut date I assess my physique, find out my TDEE, set my calorific deficit (harshness depending on urgency) and it's game on. I meet that total pretty much every day, give or take the odd rice cake here or there. Yes, of course it's hard, dieting done properly isn't supposed to be easy - but I have the end goal in sight and I don't accept failure.
If it's leg day I up my carbs a touch and lower fats, and if it's a rest day I'll drop carbs (fuel) right down and raise fats. The total calorific intake never changes. I'll then take photos every 2 weeks, and reassess my progress, adjust if necessary.
Hope that helps.
With regard to supps (for cutting) - I add in caffeine tablets (1 AM, 1 PM), ECGc capsules and EFA's.
Nothing else is needed. The diet, training and AAS will do the work.
I change my training a bit. I will drop the compound heavy lifts from 4 weeks out and replace with more volume, and only add in cardio as and when required.
Muscle preservation when cutting is key, so I don't overdo the cardio, I'd rather give myself a few weeks longer and let the calorie deficit do the work.
It goes without saying that protein must remain high during the cut, I get 80-90% of my protein from whole foods, and only supplement what I haven't got from them.
I'm sure others will chime in with differences of opinion, but this works for me, it has done for many years.
Everyone is a PT and prep coach these days it seems!
Now back to the subject.
It comes down to a simple equation. Calories in v Calories out.
Everyone has a TDEE figure (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) if you don't know yours yet. Find it out.
Use the Harris-Benedict formula (google it)
If you CONSISTENTLY keep calories IN below your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure) you will lose weight... drop too low and your metabolism will grind to a halt (which is why all these fad juice diets fail so miserably) - because as soon as they revert to a normal diet, back on goes the weight.
What you choose to have in those allotted calories is entirely up to you.
ie: TDEE = 2800 calories
Client 1 consumes 20 bags of potato chips a day coming in at 2600 kcals - he does this every day - he loses weight.
Client 2 consumes 20 salads a day coming in at 3200 kcals - he does this daily - he gains weight.
Yes of course, Client 2 is getting a much higher nutritional value in his meals - but he is getting a surplus of calories and if done consistently he will add weight. Client 1 is getting pretty much zero nutritional value and his hair, skin, teeth etc will suffer in time - but he will lose weight.
So with regard to my own personal cutting - before my cut date I assess my physique, find out my TDEE, set my calorific deficit (harshness depending on urgency) and it's game on. I meet that total pretty much every day, give or take the odd rice cake here or there. Yes, of course it's hard, dieting done properly isn't supposed to be easy - but I have the end goal in sight and I don't accept failure.
If it's leg day I up my carbs a touch and lower fats, and if it's a rest day I'll drop carbs (fuel) right down and raise fats. The total calorific intake never changes. I'll then take photos every 2 weeks, and reassess my progress, adjust if necessary.
Hope that helps.
With regard to supps (for cutting) - I add in caffeine tablets (1 AM, 1 PM), ECGc capsules and EFA's.
Nothing else is needed. The diet, training and AAS will do the work.
I change my training a bit. I will drop the compound heavy lifts from 4 weeks out and replace with more volume, and only add in cardio as and when required.
Muscle preservation when cutting is key, so I don't overdo the cardio, I'd rather give myself a few weeks longer and let the calorie deficit do the work.
It goes without saying that protein must remain high during the cut, I get 80-90% of my protein from whole foods, and only supplement what I haven't got from them.
I'm sure others will chime in with differences of opinion, but this works for me, it has done for many years.
Everyone is a PT and prep coach these days it seems!
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