First Injectible Cycle - Log

[Hazbuk]

Preamble
My first post, been lurking around for a while just checking out info, watching other people's progress etc.
Soon to start my own cycle, thought this would be a good way to keep track. See if anyone has any advice on any negative sides / issues I get.
Plus the first cycle threads I've read helped me a lot, so hopefully this can do the same for someone else.


My First Cycle

Like most idiots my first cycle was an Oral only cycle, so I did 50-100mg Oxandrolone ED for 10 weeks.
Was loving it, got all veiny, gained a bit of size. I have since lost all the gains I made through being a complete idiot (that said I'm probably a bit stronger than I was pound for pound). Part way through the cycle I decided to up my creatine and the Var at the same time. My Kidneys started killing, so I figured it was the Anavar. I dropped the dose the pain continued; stopped completely the pain continued. Then found a study about how creatine can cause Kidney pain and behold I stopped the creatine and was fine, started back on the Anavar.

Part way through I started a new job, was missing gym sessions, eating shit food. Just generally fucking it up in every way possible.

TL;DR Basically the whole thing was a gigantic mess and so I decided this time I'd be better informed and do it properly.

This Cycle

Items

• Test E - 500mg/wk (Weeks 1-12) BD EU 250mg/l
• Anavar 30mg ED (Weeks 4-10) Singnature
• Clomid (As and when) Pharma
• Tamoxifen (PCT) Pharma

Still waiting for my Test to arrive, hoping to get started in the new year. The Anavar i'm using up the small amount I had left, didn't see any negative sides at all (Bar the kidney pain from Creatine dose) on my first cycle, so figured at a low dose with the test should add a bit of extra oomph, given that I know any sides aren't going to be the Anavar.

My pins have arrived already, so I have 1.25" Blues for injecting. 1.5" Greens for drawing. Got my swabs, sharps bin, barrels and some antiseptic hand wipes.
View attachment 559967

Already tried stabbing myself in the leg, it certainly was an experience. It went in a lot easier than I thought, felt a bit weird once I hit the muscle, kind of like a strange tingling feeling. I drew back to check for blood, nothing then just pushed back down (I wasn't injecting anything in at this point). Felt a bit strange afterwards, no soreness in the muscle (but I imagine it's different when you're putting oil in) and a tiny bit of blood from the injection site.

Schedule

The plan is to inject every Monday and Thursday in my Quads
Training 5 days a week (6 if I feel like throwing in some Cardio) doing a full body split:

Day 1 - Chest & Tri's
Day 2 - Back & Bi's
Day 3 - Rest/Cardio
Day 4 - Wildcard (Probably more chest as it's really really lagging my chest is weak as fuck)
Day 5 - Shoulders & Abs
Day 6 - Legs
Day 7 - Rest/Cardio

My diet is currently not what it used to be (Fuck you New Job and Christmas), however I have as of today finally started eating clean again, tracking Macros and all that good stuff.

So I'll be eating 3500cals a day to start with adding 150cals every two weeks, ending on eating approx. 4500cals
Macros are: 270g Protein, 350g Carbs, 120g Fat

When moving up calories I'm likely to keep my carbs roughly the same and increase protein and fat instead as I already struggle with my carb goal.

About Me

Male
Age: 24
Height: 5ft 6 (Yes I am that short)
Weight: 11s 5
Body Fat: I'd have to guess around 23% but you can tell me otherwise (I've never measured myself)

Goal Weight (Lifetime): 13s @ Approx. 12% bf
Goal Weight (Cycle after PCT): 12s

I actually looked better before my first cycle! Also I realise I am not near my natural potential but the noob gains are over, I know how big I want to get and steroids will make that goal a lot quicker.

Front:
View attachment 559968
Back:
View attachment 559969

I probably won't update again now until my stuff arrives. I'll try and post up once a week after my second injection, when I update I'll include what training I did and the calories etc hit that week broken down. I'm planning on putting progress pics up also (including what I keep after PCT is all finished). Excited to get started as it could be 3 or 4 cycles (2 years) and I'm where I want to be!

Any critiques are welcome.

Thanks all, hope you enjoy.

 

[hiram1st]

You probably are not at your natty peak yet. You could probably still make great gains with proper diet and training. Taking steroids should be used after you reach a platue naturally i dont think you have but thats just my opinion. If your diet and training aren't on point your not going to keep any gains you get from steroids.

That being said read this if you havn't already:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ycling-beginners-guide-safe-androgen-use.html

Lots of good info

Where is your AI? You have to have a aromatase inhibitor to control E2 this is a must and at higher body fat you have more aromatase enzyms so controlling E2 could be more difficult.

Are you planning HCG? It promotes recovery. Keeps the testes active while on cycle to make recovery easier.

Are you planning on getting bloodwork? pre, mid and post?

You should have a good baseline to go by you need bloodwork prior to starting a cycle.

 

[Megatron28]

Why no AI? With you highish body fat % you are going to get a lot of aromatization.

Why no hCG?

What are PCT doses and timing?

Have you gotten pre-cycle blood work yet? Plans for mid and post cycle blood work?

 

[Megatron28]

You probably are not at your natty peak yet. You could probably still make great gains with proper diet and training.

Probably?

 

[Hazbuk]

Cheers for the link, already read it!
I'm definitely not near my natural limit no. But I'm not looking to burst through plateaus or get beyond my natural limit with steroids. For me it's a means of speeding up the process. My diet and training is definitely on point, I used to be really really fucking skinny. I was about 9 stone before I started lifting two years ago.

I forgot to put Aromasin on my list of stuff I have! So I've got my AI.
I wasn't planning on running HCG, just doesn't feel necessary.

I'm concerned about going to my GP and getting blood work done. Once I go, he'll know I'm on and then anything I go to the doctors for he'll just chalk it up to the fact I'm on "drugs". I know I should get blood work done but I've always been really healthy. I probably will go before I start but I'm still debating how necessary I think it is.

PCT my plan is as follows:
Once the Test E has cleared my system so around Week 12.

100mg Day 1
50mg Days 2-14
20mg Days 14-21

 

[hiram1st]

Cheers for the link, already read it!
I'm definitely not near my natural limit no. But I'm not looking to burst through plateaus or get beyond my natural limit with steroids. For me it's a means of speeding up the process. My diet and training is definitely on point, I used to be really really fucking skinny. I was about 9 stone before I started lifting two years ago.

I forgot to put Aromasin on my list of stuff I have! So I've got my AI.
I wasn't planning on running HCG, just doesn't feel necessary.

I'm concerned about going to my GP and getting blood work done. Once I go, he'll know I'm on and then anything I go to the doctors for he'll just chalk it up to the fact I'm on "drugs". I know I should get blood work done but I've always been really healthy. I probably will go before I start but I'm still debating how necessary I think it is.

PCT my plan is as follows:
Once the Test E has cleared my system so around Week 12.

100mg Day 1
50mg Days 2-14
20mg Days 14-21

PCT 16 to 21 days after last injection

PCT sould contain both clomid and nolva

Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

What's your stane dosing going to be?

And with all your experience I can see where you think HCG isn't necessary.

Every time you shut down you risk the chance of not starting back up why wouldn't think aiding your recovery isn't necessary?

I've never done orals but from my understanding you get better results of anvar @50mg


You can get your own bloodwork prvtmdlabs online pretty cheap and have the results in a couple of days. The blood work is to have a base line of TT and E2 so you know where you are without exogeneous test in your system. Mid blood work lets you know how good your gear is and where your E2 is

 

[Hazbuk]

PCT 16 to 21 days after last injection

PCT sould contain both clomid and nolva

Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20

What's your stane dosing going to be?

And with all your experience I can see where you think HCG isn't necessary.

Every time you shut down you risk the chance of not starting back up why wouldn't think aiding your recovery isn't necessary?

I've never done orals but from my understanding you get better results of anvar @50mg


You can get your own bloodwork prvtmdlabs online pretty cheap and have the results in a couple of days. The blood work is to have a base line of TT and E2 so you know where you are without exogeneous test in your system. Mid blood work lets you know how good your gear is and where your E2 is

Why the mixture of Clomid and Nolva?

I'll check out some online places for bloodwork then, do they just send you out vials to fill up?
Var would be better at 50mg but I'm only taking it because it's what I have left from my first crappy cycle. I could up to 50mg and do fewer weeks though I suppose.

I'm 24, and taking 500mg of Test. I'd feel pretty unlucky if after my first cycle I didn't manage to get producing my own test again. And HCG has it's own list of sides as does any drug. It's about risk and reward. The sides of HCG just don't seem worth the risk when I could quite easily recover on my own just with PCT.

Planning on taking AI's when I feel any tingly nips, at 12.5mg a day until it feels better.

 

[hiram1st]

Read this:

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...lva-both-required-better-chance-recovery.html

With your AI you take that dose every day not when your spidey senses tell you to.

You don't want to be the next : DO I HAVE GYNO HELP ME!!!! thread do you.

An AI is a MUST on cycle to keep your E2 under control and with your bf you better be taking it every day

 

[Hazbuk]

Read this:

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/653712-clomid-nolva-both-required-better-chance-recovery.html

With your AI you take that dose every day not when your spidey senses tell you to.

You don't want to be the next : DO I HAVE GYNO HELP ME!!!! thread do you.

An AI is a MUST on cycle to keep your E2 under control and with your bf you better be taking it every day

Thanks for the Nolva and Clomid combo tip. Definitely will use both now, seems the safer bet without any increased risk.

As for the AI thing, everything else I've read says to the contrary so you'll forgive me for not taking your word as gospel. Aromasin is an Estrogen Blocker. So if you take it during the whole cycle you're going to be at basically zero Oestrogen. You need Oestrogen to build muscle mass and just for general health. Also the same argument as before regarding side effects. I'll stick with my spidey senses, tingling nipples is one of the earliest signs of Gynecomastia (my friend who wasn't on steroids had it).

 

[hiram1st]

Thanks for the Nolva and Clomid combo tip. Definitely will use both now, seems the safer bet without any increased risk.

As for the AI thing, everything else I've read says to the contrary so you'll forgive me for not taking your word as gospel. Aromasin is an Estrogen Blocker. So if you take it during the whole cycle you're going to be at basically zero Oestrogen. You need Oestrogen to build muscle mass and just for general health. Also the same argument as before regarding side effects. I'll stick with my spidey senses, tingling nipples is one of the earliest signs of Gynecomastia (my friend who wasn't on steroids had it).

The goal when running an ai on cycle is to manage estrogen levels so that you still get the positive benefits of estrogen without the undesirable side effects of excess estrogen. This it whats its used for. While taking test you will have excess estrogen if your gear is any good and the type of AI your using binds to some of it and keeps your E2 hopefully in range which you'll know when you get mid blood work done this prevents you from having to use your spidey senses.

 

[Megatron28]

Hazbuk: you don't sound ready to cycle. I can see that you have done some homework, but it is clear that you do not fully understand what you have read. That is common. None of us were born knowing this stuff and the body is complicated. You are interpreting slightly the wrong way and you seem to be a little inflexible about challenging your ideas.

At 'Ology we try not to rely on our Spidy sense. We like to be more scientific and evidence based in our approach.

- We prefer to prevent gyno than cure it after we get it. An anology is one can take measure to prevent a heart attack or get a triple bypass surgery after the heart attack.

-Exogenous testosterone stops your endogenous testosterone. In other words in shuts down your Natty T. When this happens your testicles shrink. Atrophied testicles makes recovery after a cycle more difficult. Why not run hCG during a cycle to minimize atrophy? The sides of hCG are minimal and manageable.

- You don't seem to understand how you high body fat is going to contribute to high rates of aromatization. You need an aromatase inhibitor on cycle. Don't wait until you have gyno. And note that AI are not "estrogen blockers". They inhibit testosterone from aromatizing into estradiol.

-Nobody here would advocate taking your estradiol levels to zero. It is about keeping your estradiol in the sweet spot. Most guys like it to be in the 20-40pg/ml range. How you are going to determine where you are at on your first cycle with your Spidy sense is beyond me. You need blood work. See my signature below if you are in the US for how to get blood work and what blood work to get.

- I don't think you understand how the HPTA works and you are about to take powerful drugs that turn the HPTA on it head. You should be scared about the prospect. The risks include infertility, Gyno, edema and TRT for the rest of your hopefully long life (among numerous others).

We are here to help you do it right. But you need to be ready to challenge your existing premises and do a lot more research.

Finally, let me suggest waiting to run a cycle until you are 25 and your brain/endocrine system are more developed. This would give you valuable time to diet and get your body fat % lower. You are pretty fat to be running a cycle and all those negative sides get amplified with high body fat %.

If your diet really was on point you would be able to cut pretty easily before starting a cycle.

 

[hiram1st]

Hazbuk: you don't sound ready to cycle. I can see that you have done some homework, but it is clear that you do not fully understand what you have read. That is common. None of us were born knowing this stuff and the body is complicated. You are interpreting slightly the wrong way and you seem to be a little inflexible about challenging your ideas.

At 'Ology we try not to rely on our Spidy sense. We like to be more scientific and evidence based in our approach.

- We prefer to prevent gyno than cure it after we get it. An anology is one can take measure to prevent a heart attack or get a triple bypass surgery after the heart attack.

-Exogenous testosterone stops your endogenous testosterone. In other words in shuts down your Natty T. When this happens your testicles shrink. Atrophied testicles makes recovery after a cycle more difficult. Why not run hCG during a cycle to minimize atrophy? The sides of hCG are minimal and manageable.

- You don't seem to understand how you high body fat is going to contribute to high rates of aromatization. You need an aromatase inhibitor on cycle. Don't wait until you have gyno. And note that AI are not "estrogen blockers". They inhibit testosterone from aromatizing into estradiol.

-Nobody here would advocate taking your estradiol levels to zero. It is about keeping your estradiol in the sweet spot. Most guys like it to be in the 20-40pg/ml range. How you are going to determine where you are at on your first cycle with your Spidy sense is beyond me. You need blood work. See my signature below if you are in the US for how to get blood work and what blood work to get.

- I don't think you understand how the HPTA works and you are about to take powerful drugs that turn the HPTA on it head. You should be scared about the prospect. The risks include infertility, Gyno, edema and TRT for the rest of your hopefully long life (among numerous others).

We are here to help you do it right. But you need to be ready to challenge your existing premises and do a lot more research.

Finally, let me suggest waiting to run a cycle until you are 25 and your brain/endocrine system are more developed. This would give you valuable time to diet and get your body fat % lower. You are pretty fat to be running a cycle and all those negative sides get amplified with high body fat %.

If your diet really was on point you would be able to cut pretty easily before starting a cycle.

This ^^^^^^^

Well said

 

[Hazbuk]

Hazbuk: you don't sound ready to cycle. I can see that you have done some homework, but it is clear that you do not fully understand what you have read. That is common. None of us were born knowing this stuff and the body is complicated. You are interpreting slightly the wrong way and you seem to be a little inflexible about challenging your ideas.

At 'Ology we try not to rely on our Spidy sense. We like to be more scientific and evidence based in our approach.

- We prefer to prevent gyno than cure it after we get it. An anology is one can take measure to prevent a heart attack or get a triple bypass surgery after the heart attack.

-Exogenous testosterone stops your endogenous testosterone. In other words in shuts down your Natty T. When this happens your testicles shrink. Atrophied testicles makes recovery after a cycle more difficult. Why not run hCG during a cycle to minimize atrophy? The sides of hCG are minimal and manageable.

- You don't seem to understand how you high body fat is going to contribute to high rates of aromatization. You need an aromatase inhibitor on cycle. Don't wait until you have gyno. And note that AI are not "estrogen blockers". They inhibit testosterone from aromatizing into estradiol.

-Nobody here would advocate taking your estradiol levels to zero. It is about keeping your estradiol in the sweet spot. Most guys like it to be in the 20-40pg/ml range. How you are going to determine where you are at on your first cycle with your Spidy sense is beyond me. You need blood work. See my signature below if you are in the US for how to get blood work and what blood work to get.

- I don't think you understand how the HPTA works and you are about to take powerful drugs that turn the HPTA on it head. You should be scared about the prospect. The risks include infertility, Gyno, edema and TRT for the rest of your hopefully long life (among numerous others).

We are here to help you do it right. But you need to be ready to challenge your existing premises and do a lot more research.

Finally, let me suggest waiting to run a cycle until you are 25 and your brain/endocrine system are more developed. This would give you valuable time to diet and get your body fat % lower. You are pretty fat to be running a cycle and all those negative sides get amplified with high body fat %.

If your diet really was on point you would be able to cut pretty easily before starting a cycle.

I'm not inflexible, I understand completely what you're saying and as a Mathematician I'm interested in facts and studies as well.

If you're just trying to manage your Oestrogen levels, how can you know what dose is required at the start, every body is different. That's my concern, saying "take 12.5mg" as if everyone would require the same dose, just doesn't cut it for me as a response. Hence why i was planning to take it as and when at that dose.

I could diet down, definitely something I'll consider before starting now if it's going to help with reducing the possibility of Aromatising sides. Shouldn't take too long.

And as I've said before I'll definitely get bloodwork done if I can do it online through a private lab. Unfortunately I'm in the UK so I'll have to find one myself, thanks for the link though.

 

[Megatron28]

I'm not inflexible, I understand completely what you're saying and as a Mathematician I'm interested in facts and studies as well.

If you're just trying to manage your Oestrogen levels, how can you know what dose is required at the start, every body is different. That's my concern, saying "take 12.5mg" as if everyone would require the same dose, just doesn't cut it for me as a response. Hence why i was planning to take it as and when at that dose.

I could diet down, definitely something I'll consider before starting now if it's going to help with reducing the possibility of Aromatising sides. Shouldn't take too long.

And as I've said before I'll definitely get bloodwork done if I can do it online through a private lab. Unfortunately I'm in the UK so I'll have to find one myself, thanks for the link though.

First thing we will tell you is that everyone is different. However, we know there is a very high probability that you are going to aromatize a lot and get high estradiol on the dosage of test you want to take. That knowledge has been gained with experience and vicariously.

I can't tell you what specific dose of AI will work for you though. I can make an educated estimate on what your starting point should be though. I know with about a 99.5% certainty that it isn't zero. You would have to be more than three standard deviations out of the norm to not need any AI.

I would recommend starting at 12.5mg of Aromasin daily and adjust as indicated with blood work. Use empirical evidence -- not your Spidy sense. Start thinking about this like a mathematician.

P.S. Make sure you look at estradiol -- not Total Estrogen. Testosterone aromatizes into estradiol and estradiol is the most potent form of the estrogens. And understand what role estradiol plays in the HPTA feedback loop.

 

[Hazbuk]

First thing we will tell you is that everyone is different. However, we know there is a very high probability that you are going to aromatize a lot and get high estradiol on the dosage of test you want to take. That knowledge has been gained with experience and vicariously.

I can't tell you what specific dose of AI will work for you though. I can make an educated estimate on what your starting point should be though. I know with about a 99.5% certainty that it isn't zero. You would have to be more than three standard deviations out of the norm to not need any AI.

I would recommend starting at 12.5mg of Aromasin daily and adjust as indicated with blood work. Use empirical evidence -- not your Spidy sense. Start thinking about this like a mathematician.

P.S. Make sure you look at estradiol -- not Total Estrogen. Testosterone aromatizes into estradiol and estradiol is the most potent form of the estrogens. And understand what role estradiol plays in the HPTA feedback loop.

Cheers, I guess it's going to take some trial and error and 12.5mg is at least a standard starting point. I'll make sure I get blood work done once i've finished my cut and then get cracking.

I'll give HCG some more research but I still don't think it's necessary, thanks for the advice though.

 

[Megatron28]

Cheers, I guess it's going to take some trial and error and 12.5mg is at least a standard starting point. I'll make sure I get blood work done once i've finished my cut and then get cracking.

I'll give HCG some more research but I still don't think it's necessary, thanks for the advice though.

hCG is not necessary. It just improves your chances of fully recovering and recovering faster so you don't lose your hard earned gains. Like I said, it keeps your testicles from getting completely atrophied.

 

[halfwit]

First thing we will tell you is that everyone is different. However, we know there is a very high probability that you are going to aromatize a lot and get high estradiol on the dosage of test you want to take. That knowledge has been gained with experience and vicariously.

I can't tell you what specific dose of AI will work for you though. I can make an educated estimate on what your starting point should be though. I know with about a 99.5% certainty that it isn't zero. You would have to be more than three standard deviations out of the norm to not need any AI.

I would recommend starting at 12.5mg of Aromasin daily and adjust as indicated with blood work. Use empirical evidence -- not your Spidy sense. Start thinking about this like a mathematician.

P.S. Make sure you look at estradiol -- not Total Estrogen. Testosterone aromatizes into estradiol and estradiol is the most potent form of the estrogens. And understand what role estradiol plays in the HPTA feedback loop.

Ooooh, talk statistics to me you dirty Decepticon. Check out these nipples!

OP: Everything you're being told here is accurate and is definitely based on a cumulative knowledge base that spans decades. It is unfortunate that blood tests are hard to come by (if not downright impossible) in the UK, but it is in your best interests to at least get a blood panel done BEFORE you embark on a hormone journey. Do yourself a favor too, keep reading before you start so you know what to expect. There's a significant difference once you move to injectables, so do your best to be prepared.

 

[Hazbuk]

Ooooh, talk statistics to me you dirty Decepticon. Check out these nipples!

OP: Everything you're being told here is accurate and is definitely based on a cumulative knowledge base that spans decades. It is unfortunate that blood tests are hard to come by (if not downright impossible) in the UK, but it is in your best interests to at least get a blood panel done BEFORE you embark on a hormone journey. Do yourself a favor too, keep reading before you start so you know what to expect. There's a significant difference once you move to injectables, so do your best to be prepared.

Can I not even get them at my GP?

 

[Megatron28]

Ooooh, talk statistics to me you dirty Decepticon. Check out these nipples!

OP: Everything you're being told here is accurate and is definitely based on a cumulative knowledge base that spans decades. It is unfortunate that blood tests are hard to come by (if not downright impossible) in the UK, but it is in your best interests to at least get a blood panel done BEFORE you embark on a hormone journey. Do yourself a favor too, keep reading before you start so you know what to expect. There's a significant difference once you move to injectables, so do your best to be prepared.

Next time I will pull out some T Scores and toss in a binomial distribution for you. Regress the mean too.

 

[Megatron28]

Can I not even get them at my GP?

You can. You will probably need a story for why you want to check LH, FSH, TT, E2, Prolactin, TSH, CBC, and a Metbolic Panel though. Don't take this the wrong way, but I know Brits. They don't like to be told what to do. You have to lead them to the answer and make then think they came up with it. Especially docs. Working with Brits can be a pain in the arse. . Such a stubborn bunch.