First Time Cycle (Test-E)

[powerbag]

Hello all, have decided now is the right time to start my first cycle, would appreciate your knowledge and thoughts on my cycle as a whole. I am sure there are things I could improve, but would like a little feedback if possible. Will keep this as a log for myself too so I can analyze what happened.

Age: 26
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 84kg
BF %: 10
Training Experience: 3 years solid, five times per week

Test-E Cycle, dosed at 500mg weekly

Week 1-12: Test-E Only, 250mg Saturday & Tuesday
Week 1-12: Arimidex 0.25mg E3D, increase if needed
Week 1-12: BRIDGE, double dosed (may or may not be beneficial but have the money to use it regardless, so thought why not)

Added into this would be the standard supplements of fish oil & multivitamin, have been given milk thistle for free so also thought I may as well use it throughout.

PCT

Week 14-18: Nolva & Clomid, tapering off at week 16-18.
I am unsure as to what dosage would be optimal for myself, but have bought enough so it would never be an issue of running out, so suggestions would be very helpful.

Diet

Low cholesterol diet, consisting of only clean foods. Will be going roughly 1500 kcal over maintainance, though depending on how the cycle is going I can increase this if needed.
Protein intake will come from food sources mainly, though will supplement this with some whey isolate, aiming for 1.5-2g per lb lean mass.

I may be able to get my hands on some Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), though it would not be until roughly 2 weeks after first pin. Is this a necessity or is the debate still rife as to whether it should or shouldn't be used as a staple of any cycle?

Any suggestions or critique will be very grateful. Thanks again.

 

[mckic07]

be sure to run some hcg during your cycle, especially pct, i am by no means experienced with it but research it and check out other threads and it's importance soon becomes really evident

good luck man!

 

[Rumpy]

Few things I would look at. I like starting low with adex and increasing as needed, but 1/4mg E3D might be a little light, even to start. I assume you have liquid and can easily dose at 1/4mg, so I might start at EOD and go up from there. If your cycle ends at the end of week 12 and post cycle therapy (pct) starts at the beginning of week 14, that's only one week off. That's not long enough. For test E 2 weeks is a minimum, 15-18 days is better. 5 weeks is probably more than you need, 4 should do for this cycle. I would run Clomid at 50 and Nolva at 20 for all for weeks, but you could double it for the first week if you want. I don't know what BRIDGE is, so no comment there. You will recover faster if you add HCG while on cycle. Pin 250iu on the same day as test, stop 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct).

 

[powerbag]

Thanks for such quick comments.

With the post cycle therapy (pct) I meant that I would start it two weeks after the last pin, sorry for the typo. The Adex is in tablet form, so it will be easy to up the dose if needed. EOD seems better, so I will switch to doing that, just wanted to make sure i wouldn't inhibit more gains than necessary.

As for the 4 week post cycle therapy (pct), that sounds good to me. I may not double the dose as I am unsure about being a little girl on the Clomid, but if it is necessary or more beneficial in the long run then I would be happy to double dose and go from there.

I should be able to get Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), though it won't be until a week or so after the first pin, is this going to cause issues or will the slight delay not have that much of an adverse effect?

 

[Clamp]

Dietary cholesterol has little impact on blood cholesterol. Plus there is evidence now that cholesterol is not what causes strokes/heart attacks. Didn't read fully but I'll post more later- I'm omw out the door. Happy 4th everybody.

 

[Lift-on]

On ur hcg. It won't hurt to start a week late just get it and get is started when u can. If u have extra at the end of ur cycle u can blast it the two weeks before pct.

 

[powerbag]

Had a quick word and would be available within two weeks of starting, so I will be adding the HCG as well. I have seen that some people think it is better to run halfway through, whilst others are of the opinion that it should be started from the beginning up until the last pin. I suppose I may as well run it from when I get it, money won't be an issue, if i'm doing it i'd like to take every precaution as possible.

 

[Rumpy]

There's really no reason to start HCG on day one as you're not suppressed yet. Best time is round 2 weeks in. I prefer to run on cycle but others do like to blast for 10 days at the end. One keeps the boys awake for the full cycle, the other lets them shrivel up a bit, but gives them a swift kick in the nuts right before post cycle therapy (pct) starts. Either way, your post cycle therapy (pct) will be more effective and start working sooner if your testicles are at full volume, so any HCG is better than no HCG. You want your last HCG pin to be 4 days before you start Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), so if you only have one vial, count backwards to find your start date. The timing of the last pin is more important than that of the first, so if it works out that you need to start at 4 weeks to end 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct), do that.

 

[powerbag]

There's really no reason to start HCG on day one as you're not suppressed yet. Best time is round 2 weeks in. I prefer to run on cycle but others do like to blast for 10 days at the end. One keeps the boys awake for the full cycle, the other lets them shrivel up a bit, but gives them a swift kick in the nuts right before post cycle therapy (pct) starts. Either way, your post cycle therapy (pct) will be more effective and start working sooner if your testicles are at full volume, so any HCG is better than no HCG. You want your last HCG pin to be 4 days before you start Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), so if you only have one vial, count backwards to find your start date. The timing of the last pin is more important than that of the first, so if it works out that you need to start at 4 weeks to end 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct), do that.

that's what i thought. i think i may as well start it two weeks in rather than doing the blast, it makes more sense to keep it running throughout. i know that it can cause gyno, but the arimidex should have that covered. i'll most likely end up buying slightly more HCG than is needed, but i'd rather have too much than too little.

Test-E 1-12, 250mg Sat & Tue, Arimidex 1-12, 0.25mg EOD, HCG 2-14, same days as Test-E pins, 250iu (stopping 4 days before post cycle therapy (pct)), post cycle therapy (pct) 4 weeks to finish off.

As a basic structure, does that seem slightly better than before? I was told about the flu like symptoms that may arise, is that a case of just riding it out or is that a sign that something may be infected or gone wrong? I assume it could just be the body adjusting to the large amounts of test within the body?

 

[Rumpy]

Everything looks good, but I'll add a few practical considerations from experience. The adex I have is in 1mg tablets, cutting them in half is easy, into fourths is a pain in the ass. I take 1/2mg E3D or EOD as needed, (or ED if that's what it takes). You may find that's easier than cutting into quarters, but it makes do difference in terms of the cycle.

If you've never used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you should do a little more research on using it just so theirs no surprises. It will come in two vials, one is the dry HCG powder, the other sterile water. Do NOT use the sterile water it comes with, you need to buy bac water so you can store some after it's mixed. Some of it comes in a rubber top vial like test, but most comes in solid glass vials that you need to break the top off of. If you get this kind, you will also need to buy sterile vials to put it in after it's mixed. HCG is injected sub Q, not IM. Most prefer to use slin pins, so add those to the shopping list as well. Once mixed, you'll need to store it in the fridge. I agree with having too much instead of too little, but it once mixed it will not last until your next cycle, so if you do have extra, blast it in the first 10 days after your cycle. No point in wasting it.

 

[Jrk20z3]

Listen to professor Rumpy. The man tells the truth and nothing but.

 

[powerbag]

Everything looks good, but I'll add a few practical considerations from experience. The adex I have is in 1mg tablets, cutting them in half is easy, into fourths is a pain in the ass. I take 1/2mg E3D or EOD as needed, (or ED if that's what it takes). You may find that's easier than cutting into quarters, but it makes do difference in terms of the cycle.

If you've never used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you should do a little more research on using it just so theirs no surprises. It will come in two vials, one is the dry HCG powder, the other sterile water. Do NOT use the sterile water it comes with, you need to buy bac water so you can store some after it's mixed. Some of it comes in a rubber top vial like test, but most comes in solid glass vials that you need to break the top off of. If you get this kind, you will also need to buy sterile vials to put it in after it's mixed. HCG is injected sub Q, not IM. Most prefer to use slin pins, so add those to the shopping list as well. Once mixed, you'll need to store it in the fridge. I agree with having too much instead of too little, but it once mixed it will not last until your next cycle, so if you do have extra, blast it in the first 10 days after your cycle. No point in wasting it.

thanks for the info. i was told that the adex could be fiddly, or just crumble, so i'll probably stick to doing 0.5mg e3d and assess it after a couple of weeks.

as for the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), i've still got a few questions about it but am sure there is enough information floating about on here as well as google for me to iron the creases out. one problem that may arise is being able to store it in a fridge, will this be an issue or will it just mean that i will have to mix the water each time with clean vials rather than just going to the fridge and getting it done?

 

[powerbag]

ok, first pin tomorrow. slightly nervous, but i suppose that is inevitable. will most likely go for the glute, but if not then the right quad, see how i feel tomorrow. will warm the test up slightly beforehand and make sure the area is cleaned with the alcohol wipes. not sure why some people don't aspirate, that will be a certainty for me. excited to get my first cycle finally started, has been a long thought process up until this point so let's hope all goes well tomorrow.

think i'll take all my measurements tomorrow so i can make a good comparison by the end, will be interesting to see how successful it will be.

 

[gettinbigjj]

My first cycle was started 10 days ago. I had no issues with pinning quads except i hit a nerve. But going in slow u will just twitch wont hurt.. pull out and re stick. First and most recent pin were delts.. by FAR easiest .. did a hard delt workout the day after and barely any PiP. Have a friend or girlfriend help u with aspirating it will cut down a bit on the needle movement inside and drastically reduce the pain

 

[DreDay187]

Everything looks good, but I'll add a few practical considerations from experience. The adex I have is in 1mg tablets, cutting them in half is easy, into fourths is a pain in the ass. I take 1/2mg E3D or EOD as needed, (or ED if that's what it takes). You may find that's easier than cutting into quarters, but it makes do difference in terms of the cycle.

If you've never used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you should do a little more research on using it just so theirs no surprises. It will come in two vials, one is the dry HCG powder, the other sterile water. Do NOT use the sterile water it comes with, you need to buy bac water so you can store some after it's mixed. Some of it comes in a rubber top vial like test, but most comes in solid glass vials that you need to break the top off of. If you get this kind, you will also need to buy sterile vials to put it in after it's mixed. HCG is injected sub Q, not IM. Most prefer to use slin pins, so add those to the shopping list as well. Once mixed, you'll need to store it in the fridge. I agree with having too much instead of too little, but it once mixed it will not last until your next cycle, so if you do have extra, blast it in the first 10 days after your cycle. No point in wasting it.

HCG can be injected IM and it reaches peak serum concentrations in a shorter time than Sub-Q injections, ~6hrs vs ~16-20hrs

 

[frank.tb]

Everything looks good, but I'll add a few practical considerations from experience. The adex I have is in 1mg tablets, cutting them in half is easy, into fourths is a pain in the ass. I take 1/2mg E3D or EOD as needed, (or ED if that's what it takes). You may find that's easier than cutting into quarters, but it makes do difference in terms of the cycle.

If you've never used Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), you should do a little more research on using it just so theirs no surprises. It will come in two vials, one is the dry HCG powder, the other sterile water. Do NOT use the sterile water it comes with, you need to Calories in Broccoli and Nutrition Facts bac water so you can store some after it's mixed. Some of it comes in a rubber top vial like test, but most comes in solid glass vials that you need to break the top off of. If you get this kind, you will also need to buy sterile vials to put it in after it's mixed. HCG is injected sub Q, not IM. Most prefer to use slin pins, so add those to the shopping list as well. Once mixed, you'll need to store it in the fridge. I agree with having too much instead of too little, but it once mixed it will not last until your next cycle, so if you do have extra, blast it in the first 10 days after your cycle. No point in wasting it.

Hey Rumpy why don't you use the water the HCG comes with? Just curious

 

[DreDay187]

Hey Rumpy why don't you use the water the HCG comes with? Just curious

It comes with sterile water which is good for one time use, it's sterile. Once bacteria is introduced though it loses sterility and becomes contaminated. You need to purchase and mix HCG with BAC water (bacteriostatic water) because this water is resistant to bacteria and won't lose sterility like normal sterile water. BAC water usually has .9% benzyl alcohol added as a bacteriostat or anti-microbial agent which gives it around a 30day shelf life.

 

[frank.tb]

It comes with sterile water which is good for one time use, it's sterile. Once bacteria is introduced though it loses sterility and becomes contaminated. You need to purchase and mix HCG with BAC water (bacteriostatic water) because this water is resistant to bacteria and won't lose sterility like normal sterile water. BAC water usually has .9% benzyl alcohol added as a bacteriostat or anti-microbial agent which gives it around a 30day shelf life.

Ah pretty self explanatory I guess haha
Thanks doc

 

[Rumpy]

Yup what Doc said. Question for you doc, if you do inject Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) IM, do you ever mix it in the same syringe with oils? Do you think it's better to go IM with it?

 

[DreDay187]

Yup what Doc said. Question for you doc, if you do inject Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) IM, do you ever mix it in the same syringe with oils? Do you think it's better to go IM with it?

Ill give you both thoughts on this and you can make an informed decision.
thought one is that test must be administered IM and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) must be administered Sub-Q for various reasons. Another is that mixing oil based and water based compounds isn't a good idea. And Dr. Scally advises not to mix the two in the same syringe, for what reasons I'm not sure but I'd imagine bc he advocates test be administered IM and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) be administered Sub-Q to minimize scar tissue and muscular injections.

On the other hand I've seen info that mixing oil based and water based compounds won't negatively impact anything and that test can be injected Sub-Q (Dr. Crisler now advocates sub-q test injections) and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) can be administered IM (according to William Llewelyn in Anabolics). If you follow this train of thought mixing the two wont affect anything.

Which one is right is hard to prove as there is convincing evidence for both sides of the argument. In the end I don't believe you'd see huge differences with either protocol.

Your second question, I've never ran Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) personally so I have no experience with it, but according to Llewellyn, IM injections of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) reach peak concentration after about 6hrs while Sub-Q injections need 16-20hrs to reach peak concentrations. Sub-Q injections will leave less scarring and less muscular trauma though so which ever route you go should be ok IMO.