For The Last Time...There's No Such Thing as a "CUTTING CYCLE".

[eastarr69]

It's pretty damn hard to argue that.................

true, but cant you eat a surplus of clean calories and gain mass (muscle) and stay lean per say..

does an increase in calories automatiaclly mean an incrdease in fat?

Or vice versa?


(Quote
Originally posted by StoneColdNTO
It's pretty damn hard to argue that.................


yet somehow I got shot down and flamed


no flame NS just curiosity...

E

 

[magnusson187]

I CAN lose BF and gain LBM while on test/tren, but this is the only combo I've found so far with this ability.

 

[TOOLifter]

We see them every day. We'll see them again. But every now and then I feel it's important to remind people that steroids are NOT fat burning drugs.

Var, Winstrol (winny) and PRIMO are thought to burn fat because they don't cause water retention so you look leaner.

Most studies on steroids that show a reduction in fat is due to a greater LBM%. That just means you have a better muscle/fat ratio -- not less fat.

True, having more muscle will help burn more fat -- which is why I believe weight training blows away aerobics in terms of its fat burning benefits (but that's another story). At any rate, the difference is negligable.

Anyone who uses steroids to get leaner is just using an excuse to use steroids. People like being on gear while dieting because...well, they like being on gear. The anti-catabolic properties are overrated -- as are the catabolic properties of dietng.

You can do whatever you want, but let's not pretend. Steroids are growth drugs -- not diet aids. Deal with it.

Are you talking about drugs alone or drugs, diet, and cardio to get leaner? How can drugs not be "diet aids" if they help keep protein synthesis up, maintain lean mass and therefore salvage metabolism (somewhat) while in calorie restriction/deficit? I'd much rather try to cut/diet for a show on gear than without it. Obviously their is some merit to using gear to help maintain LBM while cutting. So, either I'm misunderstanding your statement or I just don't agree.


But your title is true- there is no designated drug for cutting per say- I could cut calories, diet, and use pretty much any Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) to help keep muscle in an effort to get leaner.

TL

 

[Mudge]

Ahh come on, what steroid do I take to get shredded and huge? I want to gain 50 pounds and drop 9% of my bodyfat in 12 weeks.

I also only can train twice a week and I eat 2 or 3 times a day, I eat good, no frosted flakes only regular wheaties.

Thanks guys

 

[bleachcola]

Nelson's statements are absolute fact. by varying diet and training, steroids may appear to be fat burners, but they are not.

It's kind of disturbing to hear a doctor say something like that. Hardly anything is "absolute fact" in this area of medicine. It's known that adipose tissue contains androgen receptors, so it's safe to say that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have some kind of affect on adipose tissue. Taking this into account and the fact that most users of tren report a loss in subcutaneous fat, it's not a far stretch to say that some Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) exhibit fat burning properties. More studies need to be done before such a blanket statement can be made.

 

[Cutthroat]

thnx Nelson, great post.

 

[ROAD DOG]

I agree and disagree with Nelson.I agree that steroids do not directly burn fat.But I disagree that there is no such thing as a cutting cycle.My definition of a "cutting cycle" is when you take in less calories than you burn and use roids that don't make you hold water for a "ripped look"such as winny,var or fina.I certainly wouldn't use A-bombs,d-bol,or huge doses of test for that ripped look.

 

[Triple J]

You can most certainly gain muscle while losing fat. The best way to conceptualize this is not by thinking of an advanced athlete / bodybuilder, who has surpassed natural genetic limits.

Think of somebody (lets say a young man in his early twenties) who has been a couch potato for several years (physique well below natural potential). When they get off their ass and start working out, they will gain muscle, and lose fat, at the same time. It happens all the time for people who do not even use AAS.

The physiology is simple, it just has to with nutrient partitioning, how the body makes use of the nutrients that it takes in. Instead of storing fat, the body now builds muscle. As metabolism and anabolic demands increase, fat will be burned to further supplement the body's new higher level of energy requirements.

Any anabolic will help with nutrient partitioning towards the muscle and away from the fat. To what degree will depend on the person and their relative condition, age, etc. And of course some nutrients are better building nutrients than others, so it is not a matter of pure calorie-counting, either.

 

[jcp2]

.I certainly wouldn't use A-bombs,d-bol,or huge doses of test for that ripped look.

Why wouldn't you use abombs, most hardcore competitors do right before their show. This goes to show that what some people are led to beleive isn't the real deal.

 

[ulter]

no frosted flakes only regular wheaties.

Well then you're phucked. Even those with the most limited knowledge of training and nutrition know that you can't do it without Frosted Flakes. You should spend more time reading and learning before you get involved with things of this nature.

 

[TxLonghorn]

Nice post. However it seems there are a few people here who think fina can certainly help. And who knows what future research might hold.

Also, it's been shown that oxandrolone for some reason helps you burn abdominal fat preferentially. Another thing with ox is that in many, it just kills your appetite.

All in all though, I like this post.

 

[TxLonghorn]

You can most certainly gain muscle while losing fat. The best way to conceptualize this is not by thinking of an advanced athlete / bodybuilder, who has surpassed natural genetic limits.

Think of somebody (lets say a young man in his early twenties) who has been a couch potato for several years (physique well below natural potential). When they get off their ass and start working out, they will gain muscle, and lose fat, at the same time. It happens all the time for people who do not even use AAS.

I'll buy this...but not that you can build muscle and burn fat at the same time. The fact that an untrained individual can do this the first 3 months they work out doesn't do me nor anybody else here a damn bit of good.

This is akin to saying you can double your bench press in 2 months. Sure, if you're that same couch potato who can only bench 60lbs. But again, it doesn't help anybody nor is it reproduceable after the initial period of working out.

 

[panteracfh]

bleachcola knows whats up...

 

[ROAD DOG]

I guess what I was trying to say in my earlier post is,"cutting cycle" is just a phrase.When alot of people say they are doing a cutting cycle,it means they are dieting to lose fat and doing certain roids that cause a minimal amount of water retention(winny,fina,var).

 

[ironmaster]

Very interesting.....and controversial. It may just be a matter of terminology, but there are, in fact, studies which show that the administration of synthetic testosterone derivitives resulted in decreased fat mass AND increased muscle mass.
Bleachcola's point was overlooked in this discussion. AR receptors are indeed present in fat tissue. Perhaps tren's high anabolic to androgenic ratio would explain the anecdotal evidence of fat loss referred to by the esteemed Mr. ulter.
The effect of steroids on the endocrine system is too complex to make any blanket statements.

 

[Massive1]

nelson is right.

 

[Batman]

Very interesting.....and controversial. It may just be a matter of terminology, but there are, in fact, studies which show that the administration of synthetic testosterone derivitives resulted in decreased fat mass AND increased muscle mass.
Bleachcola's point was overlooked in this discussion. AR receptors are indeed present in fat tissue. Perhaps tren's high anabolic to androgenic ratio would explain the anecdotal evidence of fat loss referred to by the esteemed Mr. ulter.
The effect of steroids on the endocrine system is too complex to make any blanket statements.

Yes, I believe anabolic/androgenic ratio is the key.

 

[TxLonghorn]

It's kind of disturbing to hear a doctor say something like that. Hardly anything is "absolute fact" in this area of medicine. It's known that adipose tissue contains androgen receptors, so it's safe to say that Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) have some kind of affect on adipose tissue. Taking this into account and the fact that most users of tren report a loss in subcutaneous fat, it's not a far stretch to say that some Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) exhibit fat burning properties. More studies need to be done before such a blanket statement can be made.

Excellent post, bleachcola.

Please post more often, you made some very interesting points.

 

[TxLonghorn]

nelson is right.

And your reasoning is? Go re-read bleachcola's and ironmaster's responses.

 

[Mudge]

If testosterone vs estrogen levels in some way determine bodyfat % (to whatever 'minute' degree) and where you are predisposed to storing fat, maybe there is something to it.