Fun with Clomid

IndigoChild

New member
Ok so im running Sustanon (sust) 350 and im on my 3rd week and things are going great.

now for post cycle therapy (pct) im gonna use clomid and nolva but i have been reading about clomid being able to raise natty test levels by up to 150%.
so i was wondering is there any problem with continuing my clomid use at 25mgs ED for all of my "off peroid"? i figured it would help me keep my gains and possibly keep gaining up until my next cycle.

WATCHU GUYS THINK??

all feedback appreciated
 
Ok so im running Sustanon (sust) 350 and im on my 3rd week and things are going great.

now for post cycle therapy (pct) im gonna use clomid and nolva but i have been reading about clomid being able to raise natty test levels by up to 150%.
so i was wondering is there any problem with continuing my clomid use at 25mgs ED for all of my "off peroid"? i figured it would help me keep my gains and possibly keep gaining up until my next cycle.

WATCHU GUYS THINK??

all feedback appreciated

I've always thought about this. You'd think it would help to keep estrogen rebound from occurring and to help keep gains. If you run Clomid at a really low dose I don't see why you couldn't. But it would be best if someone with more scientific reasoning would add their opinion.
 
Yes you can but clomid will actually increase circulating estrogen levels due to the increased test. This is what you want to watch out for.
 
would the increase in estro occur in a dose as low as 25mgs? if so would that mean i have to run an ai? if so then i guess its not a good idea due to the sides..
 
What about Nolvadex? Could Nolvadex be run at a low dose of 20MG after post cycle therapy (pct) has finished? Or even a lower dose of 10MG.

Not the best idea. Nolva lowers igf-1 levels and it would not increase test levels nearly as much as clomid.
 
I though Nolva was better at raising test?? and only needs 20 mgs vs 150 mgs of clomid needed to raise test 150% from baseline.
 
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Not a good idea. The reason is that your body will develop a tolerance when used this way, rendering them much less effective when you need to use them for the intended purpose. You will have to eventually increase your dose to a level that side effects will present.
 
I like clomid as much as the next guy, but I don't think using it continuously after PCT is really a good idea. Clomid is still a drug and one that is still messing around with your hormones.

The thing is that after PCT your body needs to be clean for a while from the use of all these drugs and that also includes the PCT drugs as well as the AAS drugs. Take the necessary time off to let your body recover its natural hormone levels.
 
Not a good idea. The reason is that your body will develop a tolerance when used this way, rendering them much less effective when you need to use them for the intended purpose. You will have to eventually increase your dose to a level that side effects will present.

I haven't heard of any tolerance issues in long-term studies on Clomid use.

I like clomid as much as the next guy, but I don't think using it continuously after PCT is really a good idea. Clomid is still a drug and one that is still messing around with your hormones.

The thing is that after PCT your body needs to be clean for a while from the use of all these drugs and that also includes the PCT drugs as well as the AAS drugs. Take the necessary time off to let your body recover its natural hormone levels.

Agreed. The goal of PCT is restoring natty production. So, a better plan than simply continuing clomid and/or Aromatase inhibitor (AI) after PCT might be to discontinue until bloodwork shows proper restoration, and then consider pursuing clomid/AI treatment to augment that production.

There are a lot of interesting posts, articles and studies floating around on this topic--lots of research available if it interests you. A good place to start is http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...tosterone-boosters-available.html#post3102541. and also http://www.steroidology.com/forum/t...d-hrt-980-testosterone-level.html#post2935859. But look around, there is a lot of info available to read and ponder. Good luck!
 
I agree that there is a lot of information available about clomid and its effects on testosterone levels. It almost seems like a wonder drug, but it doesn't compare to the AAS drugs when raising testosterone levels.

Once blood work is taken a month or two after PCT and the blood work shows that you have recovered from your cycle, then it would be time to get ready to start another AAS cycle.

I don't see why one would want to run PCT again before starting another AAS cycle, unless they didn't get proper restoration from their PCT from their last cycle.

I guess I will always consider clomid to be a PCT drug and used for that purpose. I would never run clomid by itself for 10 or 20 weeks as a pseudo AAS cycle as some threads have suggested. Why not just use the real AAS drugs?
 
I was thinking more along the lines of kind of a "bridge" between cycles to raise test levels in hopes of preserving more gains en route to the next cycle. I am a noob, and admittedly, that "time on + post cycle therapy (pct) = time off" rule of thumb looks a bit daunting in terms of the length of time between cycles.

In a related note, I heard on another forum that the beneficial isomer (in terms of test-boosting) of the two isomers making up clomid is being isolated and studied. That sounds promising, and would seem to warrant continued attention. Looking forward to hearing more on that.
 
The 2 isomer's just means that Clomid prime's the pituitary to receive GNRH, further promoting FSH.

Nolva does not have that action and mainly stimulates LH.

The downside is:

The estrogenic activity at the pituitary can give unwanted side effects.
 
Here is the post with links about the new studies on isolates. I really am not competent to assess the potential here, but I'm hoping maybe someone can dumb this down for me (Det?) :)

I recently read that they are working on isolating the more active Enclomiphene isomer to test as a more effective testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) option that regular clomid which consists of the aforementioned E isomer and less active Z isomer.
Im interested in this for multiple reasons but one is im curious to see if the removal of the isomer with both agonist an antagonist estrogenic effects improves its effectiveness or lessens it. The expression of the Z isomer apparently in some research has more impact of fsh while the E isomer on LH - not sure if this will be good or bad. Obviously bad for fertility purposes but as testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) option will be interesting to see.

this is the product : Repros Therapeutics
the study: Enclomiphene, an estrogen receptor antagonist for the... [IDrugs. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

disclaimer: I shamelessly ripped this from another forum. I will gladly give credit if the OP of this quote asks.
 
I will take a look later.

Here is a good explanation fro Doc Scally:

A: The administration of antiestrogens is a common treatment because anti estrogens interfere with the normal negative feedback of sex steroids at hypothalamic and pituitary levels in order to increase endogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone secretion from the hypothalamus and FSH and LH secretion directly from the pituitary. In turn, FSH and LH stimulate Leydig cells in the testes, and this has been claimed to lead to increased local testosterone production, thereby boosting spermatogenesis with a possible improvement in fertility. There may also be a direct effect of antiestrogens on testicular spermatogenesis or steroidogenesis.
Clomiphene is a synthetic derivative an estrogen. Clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Tamoxifen is a pure estradiol receptor antagonist. Clomid acts as an estrogen, rather than an antiestrogen, by sensitizing pituitary cells to the action of GnRH. Although tamoxifen is almost as effective as Clomid in binding to pituitary estrogen receptors, tamoxifen has little or no estrogenic activity in terms of its ability to enhance the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. The estrogenic action of Clomid at the pituitary represents a unique feature of this compound and that tamoxifen may be devoid of estrogenic activity at the pituitary level.
Perusal of the literature thus indicates that clomiphene acts in several ways in the human male; (a) due to its similarity of structure to stilbesterol it binds with receptor sites in the hypothalamus and pituitary, (b) It stimulates gonadotrophin secretion by acting on the hypothalamo-hypophyseal system, (c) the inhibitory effects of high levels of circulating estrogens (produced under the influence of clomiphene) on hypothalamo-hypophyseal axis are possibly prevented by its potent antiestrogenic behaviour. The result of these varied effects of clomiphene is an overall increase in gonadotrophin and estrogen secretion and accounts for their increase under clinical conditions.
In one study the administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). Treatment of patients with ***8220;idiopathic***8221; oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels.
Cochran database summary showed ten studies involving 738 men were included. Five of the trials did not specify method of randomization. Antiestrogens had a positive effect on endocrinal outcomes, such as serum testosterone levels. Antiestrogens appear to have a beneficial effect on endocrinal outcomes, but there is not enough evidence to evaluate the use of antiestrogens for increasing the fertility of males with idiopathic oligo-asthenospermia.
In the over one-thousand patients I have treated for HPTA normalization after AAS cessation i have used the combination of clomiphene citrate and tamoxifen. I have used clomiphene citrate alone in many cases. I added tamoxifen to the protocol to see if I could get a better clinical response. This seemed to be the case although I have not had the opportunity to evaluate the data. When both compounds are used the clomiphene citrate is discontinued first and the tamoxifen is continued for 2 more weeks. as I stated in the post on hCG injections it is imperative to be tested while on the medications. thus one would be tested ~3-5 days before the tamoxifen expires. In the 1st stage described in the hCG post one tests for testosterone only. the serum T level determines whether or not the hCG is halted. In the typical situation the hCG is stopped and the CC & tamoxifen continued. the lab tests at the end of the oral meds is LH & T.
 
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