GH/IGF1/slin Cycle Question:

rjsilverback

New member
Im gathering my gear for my next big run. This time Im pulling out any and all stops. I would be considered advanced by most. Ive got good thickness and good genetics
Im an easy gainer, responding well to gear.
Ive been training 29 yrs, using gear for about 20 yrs.
Ive done a few cycles of GH. Never used IGF1 or insuline



My Questions to the experts out here:

What dosage of GH,insuline and IGF do you recommend and
when to use?
With the GH/IGF/slin. what gear is recommended at what
dosage?

Also is 7500 cal/day (>400g Protien) good to go?

My goal is to do well at Nationals in 2004.
I know this is a lot of info to ask for, but can ya help a brotha out?

Thanks for any and all info
 
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I'd do some more research no combining slin with hgh. Maybe run hgh/slin for a month then hgh/igf-1 for a month to be on the safe side. You could lower the hgh when using it with igf-1

JohnnyB
 
thanks JB>>>>>>>>>>
thats kind of what Ive been reading on the boards.
4week of slin then a couple off, then 4 weeks of IGF lowering the GH level. Im researching hard... Im going to get this right.

thanks again
 
How old are you??? What competitions have you done in the past? It doesn't sound like u really need to add any mass. Your already 260 at 10%. In contest shape that is a doable 240 lb. At 5'8 your already going to be one of the biggest guys on stage. Tell us what your up to brother.
 
I havent competed since 1990. Yea Yea I know, Im an old fart! (42)
I had done several level 5 shows and was moving up the ladder, when I was discouraged by the politics of the game. ( a good friend of mine was ripped off big time..pissed me off)
I was being trained by John Parillo. Real smart dude. He told me I had great muscle bellies and gynetics for this stuff, and worked with me--teaching me alot. But I was done. I started Powerlifting. I believe thats what gave me my thickness and density, along with the fact Ive trained for 29years. ( 1980's Dbol, Anatropin and Parabolon didnt hurt either)

This past summer I went to a few National qualifing shows with my wife, who is a budding figure competitor. I was shocked my size compared to the guys competing. Id been out of circulation for awhile, training in a small local gym. I got that fire back in me! I figured I might as well do this is a personal challenge mostly.I have no desire to compete in the "over anything "classes. It's the OPEN CLASS or nothing....
I dont believe in the "Big fish-little pond" atitude. So ... Im here and Im going to do this. I think I have a good base to start from, Ive been clean for 6-7 months now. My head is right and Ive got the $$ for all the gear I need.
Im looking for any input from the advanced/experienced guys out there.
I will post my cycle/training program and progree so we all can learn a liitle more.
Thanks for the interest and the replies!
 
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More power to u man. I think its great that some guys at your age put some young guys to shame. I really do hope you do well. As for competition i would definately find an early show March - June '04 to qualify. That will give you plenty of time to gain a little after the rebound and start dieting again for nationals in Nov. Like i said you definately have the size and would imagine the density is there if you say so. I wouldn't worry to much about size right now. I would pick out things that really need to be brought up and concentrate on that. Like i said you should easily qualify with your height and weight. But conditioning will be something you'll have to hit. Good luck with your upcoming shows and keep us all posted.
 
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
Lets hope I hit everything just right. Its been a while but Ive got some helpful friends out there that are working with lots of winners... maybe Ill be next.
Thanks again...

Be safe,
Im out....

RJ
 
JohnnyB

Im thinking
wks 1-3 just Androgens( 1500mgs)-( 50mg Arimedex thru cycle)
wks 4-8 Androgens(2gms)- 4-6iu Gh (and maybe slin) -75mcg T3
50mg clomid
wks 9-13 75% Androgens- 25% Anabolics- 40-60iu IGF -50 mg clomid
wks 14-17 25% Anadrogens -75% Anabolics
wks 18-22 Ramp down

I may stretch it longer with one more go around with IGF.
Im still putting things together.

What do you think?

If anyone has thought or suggestion ---Im open to them!
Thanks
 
I wouldnt touch IGF-1 with a thousand foot pole with all the sideffects, its binds to the lining of your intestine causing the GUT look, for starters...

unless your competing to be the top 10 on the MR O stage, I wouldnt use it IMO
 
Sterno said:
I wouldnt touch IGF-1 with a thousand foot pole with all the sideffects, its binds to the lining of your intestine causing the GUT look, for starters...

unless your competing to be the top 10 on the MR O stage, I wouldnt use it IMO
Bro do you have a study or article on this I'd like to read it.

JohnnyB
 
his is an article I found on IGF.
I hope You find it as informative as I did...

IGF stands for insulin-like growth factor. It is a natural substance that is produced in the human body and is at its highest natural levels during puberty. During puberty IGF is the most responsible for the natural muscle growth that occurs during these few years. There are many different things that IGF does in the human body; I will only mention the points that would be important for physical enhancement. Among the effects the most positive are increased amino acid transport to cells, increased glucose transport, increased protein synthesis, decreased protein degradation, and increased RNA synthesis.

When IGF is active it behaves differently in different types of tissues. In muscle cells proteins and associated cell components are stimulated. Protein synthesis is increased along with amino acid absorption. As a source of energy, IGF mobilizes fat for use as energy in adipose tissue. In lean tissue,

IGF prevents insulin from transporting glucose across cell membranes. As a result the cells have to switch to burning off fat as a source of energy.

IGF also mimic's insulin in the human body. It makes muscles more sensitive to insulin's effects, so if you are a person that currently uses insulin you can lower your dosage by a decent margin to achieve the same effects, and as mentioned IGF will keep the insulin from making you fat.

Perhaps the most interesting and potent effect IGF has on the human body is its ability to cause hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting of cells. Hypertrophy is what occurs during weight training and steroid use, it is simply an increase in the size of muscle cells. See, after puberty you have a set number of muscle cells, and all you are able to do is increase the size of these muscle cells, you don't actually gain more. But, with IGF use you are able to cause this hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue, and through weight training and steroid usage you are able to mature these new cells, in other words make them grow and become stronger. So in a way IGF can actually change your genetic capabilities in terms of muscle tissue and cell count. IGF proliferates and differentiates the number of types of cells present. At a genetic level it has the potential to alter an individuals capacity to build superior muscle density and size.

There is a lot of talk about the similarity between IGF and growth hormone. The most often asked question is simply which is more effective. GH doesn't directly cause your muscles to grow, it works very indirectly by increasing protein synthesis capabilities, increasing the amount of insulin a person can use effectively, and increasing the amount of anabolic steroids a person can use effectively. GH also indirectly causes muscle growth by stimulating the release of IGF when it (the GH) is destroyed in the human body. So one way you could look at it as GH being a precursor to IGF. So to put it simple IGF is more effective at directly causing muscle growth and density increases. IGF is also much more cost effective.

IGF can also be effectively used by itself and gains will still be easily noticeable. With growth hormone you need to use high amounts of anabolics and often insulin to see any gains at all, this is not the case with IGF. IGF can be used by itself and is often used by bodybuilders who bridge between cycles, during this bridge is a good time to use IGF since it has no effect on natural testosterone production so it will therefore allow you to return to normal in terms of hormone levels. A stack of IGF, PGF2a, HCG, and clomid would be a good bridge stack and would allow your body to return to normal and still allow you to retain and make new gains.

IGF is a research drug, it hasn't been approved by the FDA for use as a pharmaceutical and it is currently being researched for nerve tissue repair, possible burn victims, and also as a possible aid in muscle wasting for AIDS patients. There are many different analogs of IGF available, instead of mentioning them all, I will simply mention the two most common and the most effective. Regular recombinant IGF is one of the two, it is also the more expensive and the least effective. Regular IGF only has a half-life of about 10-20 minutes in the human body and is quickly destroyed, it can be combined with certain binding proteins to extend the half-life, but it is not a very simple procedure and there is a more effective and less expensive version available. The most effective form of IGF is Long R3 IGF-1, it has been chemically altered and has had amino acid changes which cause it to avoid binding to proteins in the human body and allow it to have a much longer half life, around 20-30 hours. "Long R3 IGF-1 is an 83 amino acid analog of IGF-1 comprising the complete human IGF-1 sequence with the substition of an Arg(R) for the Glu(E) at position three, hence R3, and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N terminus. This analog of IGF-1 has been produced with the purpose of increasing the biological activity of the IGF peptide."

"Long R3 IGF-1 is signifacantly more potent than IGF-1. The enhanced potency is due to the decreased binding of Long R3 IGF-1 to all known IGF binding proteins. These binding proteins normally inhibit the biological actions of IGF's."

It is also not as expensive since a media grade version is available which is sufficient for bodybuilding use. There is also a receptor grade available but it is VERY expensive and the only noticeable difference between the two would only be able to be noticed in a laboratory setting. The price on the black market for Long R3 IGF-1 can be seen anywhere from $300-$500 per milligram depending on the source, be wary of black market dealers of any IGF since it is a VERY difficult item to obtain. As mentioned IGF is a research product and is only available from a few laboratories in the world and is only available to research companies and biotechnology institutions. For the rest of this article when I say IGF I am now referring to Long R3 IGF-1 for simplicity sake.

Any form of IGF is ONLY supplied in a lyphosized form, which means a dry powder state. NEVER PUCHASE PRE-DILUTED LIQUID IGF!!!! There is no such product made anywhere in the world and even if there were real IGF ever present in the vial it would all be dead by the time you receive it. IGF is a very delicate peptide and must be diluted by yourself, where you have access to a refrigerator and freezer. There has also been a lot of talk by certain sources claiming to have IGF made by the Eli Lilly company, to clear things up Lilly is a pharmaceutical company and as stated IGF is a research drug and has not yet been approved, Lilly does not and never has manufactured research drugs for retail sale.

The dilutents you will need for the IGF are a weak concentration of hydrochloric acid and a sterile buffer(sterile water or bacteriostatic water) the procedure for diluting the IGF is not very difficult, the dilutents can be obtained from most local chemical suppliers and a good source of IGF would also be able to supply the necessary dilutents.

The most effective length for a cycle of IGF is 50 days on and 20-40 days off. The most controversy surrounding Long R3 IGF-1 is the effective dosage. The most used dosages range between 20mcg/day to 120+mcg/day. IGF is only available by the milligram, one mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 20mcg/day, 2mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 40mcg/day, 3mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 60mcg/day, 4mg will give you a 50 day cycle at 80mcg/day and so on. The dosage issue mainly revolves around how much money you have to spend, plenty of people use the minimum dosage of 20mcg/day and are happy with the results, and in fact several top bodybuilders use the 20mcg/day dosage and are pleased with the results. IGF is most effective when administered subcutaneously and injected once or twice daily at your current dosage. The best time for injections is either in the morning and/or immediately after weight training.

Another frequently asked question of IGF refers to the real world results, in terms of pure weight gain don't expect to gain 5 lbs. a week like you may off of anadrol or a similar steroid. The only weight you will gain from IGF use is pure lean muscle tissue, with steroids most of the weight gained is water weight. With an effective dosage you can expect to gain 1-2 lbs of new lean muscle tissue every 2-3 weeks and these effects can be increased with the use of testosterone, anabolic steroids, and insulin use. Increased vascularity is also very common, people report seeing veins appear where they never have before. And yet another effect reported is the ability to stay lean while bulking with heavy dosages of steroids and TONS of food while on an IGF cycle, this is perhaps the most pleasing effect. Increased pumps are also noticeable almost immediately, the pumps can almost become painful, pumps are even noticeable when doing cardio.

Overall, IGF is a very exciting drug due to its ability to alter ones genetic capabilities. If you can find a trustworthy source and you use it correctly it can be a VERY useful tool in your bodybuilding drug arsenal.
 
rjsilverback do u have a pic at 42 , 5'8, 260 pounds man i got to see what u look like ...im also 5;8 u see just wanna see what that kinda size will look like on a person my height..thanks
 
This how Im thinking of running 24 weeks. Again ,this is just a plan on the drawing board. Im puttting this together from past experience and there is always room for improvement, thats why I am open to suggestions. I'll try to post a pic of me soon.

Weeks #1-3
750mg cypionate per week
50mg test prop. E.O.D.
50MG AD50
600mg deca
50mg t-3
arimedex

week#4-8
drop the test prop.and anadrol
cyp. 1g / week
800mg deca / week
4-6iu GH/day
75mg t-3
arimedex
2weeks of 50mg clomid

weeks#9-13
750mg cyp
800mg deca/
300mg Primo
40-80mcg IGF/day
arimedex
2 weeks 50mg clomid


week#14-17
400mg primo/wk
600 deca.wk
50mg Anavar/day
500mg cyp/wk
(maybe 4iu GH/day)
2500iu HCG / 3rd day
Nolvedex
Arimedex
75mg T3/day

week#18-24
200mg deca
200 primo
50mg test prop 3rd day
100mg primobolan every 3 days
2500iu Hcg/every 3rd day

any suggestions??????????????????????????????????????
 
Bro why not test at 750mg 1-20 then go prop 100mg eod 21-24, deca at 600mg 1-12 or 14, primo 400mg 13 or 15-24. I'm not a deca fan because of it's effect on the hpta, but to combat that you could run hcg 500-1000iu 2 days a week through the whole cycle, sat and sun. Don't pyramid your doses.

JohnnyB
 
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