JonnyBravo22
New member
Megatron...would you wait on your Doc or would you keep trying to self medicate?
Going for a restart....MAYBE found a good Doctor!
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Megatron28
Moderator
I would try to work with my doctor(s). Find a good one that listens to you. I am lucky in that I have been seeing the same doc for about 15 years and we have a good relationship.
I think seld-treating should be a last resort option.
halfwit
I like turtles.
Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa Apollon! Hang on a second here!
Let's clarify something shall we?
Clomid therapy stimulates your body's natural ability to produce leutinizing hormone to stimulate natural testosterone production. It is NOT suppressive and is actually a documented means of doing a restart. There's a reason why folks that cycle AAS use this SERM, as it does work. The reason why this would be preferred in this case is that it checks to see how he responds to a faked signal requesting his pituitary gland to secrete LH, not trick his leydig cells to produce using an analog (HCG).
While I do agree that three months of a baseline is extreme, he may be seeing how the pituitary hormones rebound on their own. If the OP is willing to go through this drudgery (I personally would not), then more power to him as this would provide as close to baseline values as possible. I do think that two weeks on Clomid is a bit silly as that would only indicate how his pituitary gland and leydig cells function, but not actually pinpoint the cause of hypogonadism in the first place.
Then again, I do think that the original values of LH/FSH DO indicate primary hypogonadism, but of course I'm not a doctor.
Take your pick OP: A 3 month attempt to see if you can bring the "boys" back online, or stick with the pin and vial till 'death do you part'. Either way, I hope for the best and that you find what you're looking for.
My .02c
Let's clarify something shall we?
Clomid therapy stimulates your body's natural ability to produce leutinizing hormone to stimulate natural testosterone production. It is NOT suppressive and is actually a documented means of doing a restart. There's a reason why folks that cycle AAS use this SERM, as it does work. The reason why this would be preferred in this case is that it checks to see how he responds to a faked signal requesting his pituitary gland to secrete LH, not trick his leydig cells to produce using an analog (HCG).
While I do agree that three months of a baseline is extreme, he may be seeing how the pituitary hormones rebound on their own. If the OP is willing to go through this drudgery (I personally would not), then more power to him as this would provide as close to baseline values as possible. I do think that two weeks on Clomid is a bit silly as that would only indicate how his pituitary gland and leydig cells function, but not actually pinpoint the cause of hypogonadism in the first place.
Then again, I do think that the original values of LH/FSH DO indicate primary hypogonadism, but of course I'm not a doctor.
Take your pick OP: A 3 month attempt to see if you can bring the "boys" back online, or stick with the pin and vial till 'death do you part'. Either way, I hope for the best and that you find what you're looking for.
My .02c
Alpin
New member
Prey he comes back and stays healthy till you get to see him in 3 months. You said he's 80 years old after all.
methos0123
New member
My bad guys, I didn't realize I was going against the grain on that comment. Just trying to help out the situation. I'll be more careful of external purchasing sites in the future.
JonnyBravo22
New member
I think my plan is going to be to wait it out as long as I can. If I start feeling too terrible I will call the doctor to see if he can please see me sooner as I am not coping well.
If not 2 weeks how long would you guys say I should try the Clomid for so that I can pass this on to the doctor?
If it does jump start my system...is that it? Come off the clomid and I am good to go? Or is clomid something you have to stay on?
If it doesn't work what in the world is the next test? I have had the MRI an thyroid function test and passed.
If not 2 weeks how long would you guys say I should try the Clomid for so that I can pass this on to the doctor?
If it does jump start my system...is that it? Come off the clomid and I am good to go? Or is clomid something you have to stay on?
If it doesn't work what in the world is the next test? I have had the MRI an thyroid function test and passed.
JonnyBravo22
New member
So I am back with an update. I took 3 months off from all meds.
In January had an MRI of the brain and it came back as normal.
Had blood work done at 9am 2 days ago.
Results:
FSH: 3.3 miu/ml (1.6 - 11.0)
LH: 5.2 miu/ml ( 0.8 - 6.1)
SHBG: 22 nmol/L ( 10-50 )
Total Testosterone: 275 ng/Dl (250 to 1100)
Free Test : 46.0 pg/mL ( 46.0 - 224.0 )
Bioavailable Test: 100.5 ng/DL ( 110 - 575 )
Albumin: 4.8 (3.6 - 5.1 )
Doctor has prescribed Clomid 2x a day for 14 days. Blood test on 15th day. If my numbers shoot way up he said that he will diagnose me as normal low T. If they do not move he said the only other option will be TRT.
Any input?
In January had an MRI of the brain and it came back as normal.
Had blood work done at 9am 2 days ago.
Results:
FSH: 3.3 miu/ml (1.6 - 11.0)
LH: 5.2 miu/ml ( 0.8 - 6.1)
SHBG: 22 nmol/L ( 10-50 )
Total Testosterone: 275 ng/Dl (250 to 1100)
Free Test : 46.0 pg/mL ( 46.0 - 224.0 )
Bioavailable Test: 100.5 ng/DL ( 110 - 575 )
Albumin: 4.8 (3.6 - 5.1 )
Doctor has prescribed Clomid 2x a day for 14 days. Blood test on 15th day. If my numbers shoot way up he said that he will diagnose me as normal low T. If they do not move he said the only other option will be TRT.
Any input?
JonnyBravo22
New member
Yes...this is without any medication for TRT since beginning of December.
I was only on TRT for almost 3 months...didn't use any PCT just came completely off of it.
I was only on TRT for almost 3 months...didn't use any PCT just came completely off of it.
JonnyBravo22
New member
Question....
I just picked up the Clomid. Also happens to be the first night in 4 months I may go out and watch the game and get some drinks with some friends. I was going to start it tonight so I could finish it at night in 14 days. Would you guys wait until tomorrow night or should it make no difference with the alchohol?
I just picked up the Clomid. Also happens to be the first night in 4 months I may go out and watch the game and get some drinks with some friends. I was going to start it tonight so I could finish it at night in 14 days. Would you guys wait until tomorrow night or should it make no difference with the alchohol?
Megatron28
Moderator
I am not trying to dash your hopes, but your LH is already near the top of the normal range. I am a little skeptical that clomid is going to do the trick for you. You seem to be leaning towards primary hypogonadism. But the risks of trying clomid for two weeks are fairly low. I would ask you doc what he/she expects to see happen to your LH though.
My guess is the TRT is in your future.
I don't know the answer about alcohol. Read the pamphlet that came with your clomid and/or call your pharmacist. If it was me, I would start a new medication on the weekend in case it bothers you. Then you don't have to be sick at work. But I think most guys don't get sick off clomid. They can feel like a girl though.
My guess is the TRT is in your future.
I don't know the answer about alcohol. Read the pamphlet that came with your clomid and/or call your pharmacist. If it was me, I would start a new medication on the weekend in case it bothers you. Then you don't have to be sick at work. But I think most guys don't get sick off clomid. They can feel like a girl though.
jomamma007
New member
No difference with aclohol, youll be fine
JonnyBravo22
New member
He didnt' say what he expected to happen to my LH. He just said he is going to base his diagnosis off whether I react to the clomid or not. If I do react he said that he probably won't medicate. If I don't react and my numbers stay the same then TRT is probably my last option.
Alpin
New member
So what r u telling us ???
that if u respond to the clomid and you're TT rises to 400ng/dl lets say.....it's job done for him???
then he sends you on your way as is ?
JonnyBravo22
New member
Unfortunately that is what I am gathering from talking to him. When I asked him what is next if it does indeed rise.....He said that means I am not primary and he won't prescribe TRT. So I asked him again what would we do then and he said we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
What is normally done if numbers do go up on Clomid?
What is normally done if numbers do go up on Clomid?
Megatron28
Moderator
And if your numbers return to hypogonadal levels after clomid? You doc doesnt treat secondary hypogonadism? And why again are you using this doc?
JonnyBravo22
New member
Well so far he is doing everything I couldn't get other doctors to do. Like to even try clomid. He hasn't done or not done anything wrong yet. I am just worried about his answers when I asked what is next if my numbers do go up.
Alpin
New member
This is ridiculous. Looks like he is out to prove something and then if it succeeds...he will say: "oh well you are not primary cause you reached low normal T levels with clomid...see". He's basically saying: I won't prescribe TRT to you cause you are secondary hypogonadal and secondary hypo doesn't warrant treatment like primary does.
This doc should know that clomid has two isomers and there might very well be a rise in T while on it....
but libido and feelings of well being are not similar to being on T shots.
If/when Androxal comes out on the market, it is said that will help secondary hypogonadsim a lot better(libido wise) than clomid does since it has a single isomer (enclomiphene). Clomid has 2 isomers (enclomiphene and Zuclomifene)
This doc should know that clomid has two isomers and there might very well be a rise in T while on it....
but libido and feelings of well being are not similar to being on T shots.
If/when Androxal comes out on the market, it is said that will help secondary hypogonadsim a lot better(libido wise) than clomid does since it has a single isomer (enclomiphene). Clomid has 2 isomers (enclomiphene and Zuclomifene)
jomamma007
New member
doubt it ever will be.
Imagine taking it and getting a 900 test level from your own boys without the negative sides most experience from clomid.
Imagine taking it and getting a 900 test level from your own boys without the negative sides most experience from clomid.
Last edited:
JonnyBravo22
New member
I am guessing this is something you can get from UL?
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