Going for a restart....MAYBE found a good Doctor!

[JonnyBravo22]

Cliff notes...I have other threads on here as well.

27 Years old
Started TRT 4 Months ago after finding out I was at 247 Total and 248 a week later
Doctor gave me only 1 option and that was TRT
My Free was 80 and normal. LH/FSH were 3.1 and 5.8 I believe. Low SHBG

I didn't know better and jumped staright on it after a few nights reading that TRT was a life saver for a lot of people and I had most of all the symptoms.

4 Months later of 80mg 2x a week of Cyp and I was at 696 Total and 215 Free
Shbg still Low at 18.
Doc decided to tell me he wants to lower the dose and send me to specialist as he dosn't know mucha bout the subject.


I had given up and was just about to self medicate. I figured before my insurance resets maybe it wouldnt hurt to ge a pituitary scan just in case before the new year. Called the local hospital and took the fist appointment available. 80 year old doctor with 40 years experience.

His diagnosis.

I am NOT primary. He is going to let me do the scan for peace of mind. He is pulling me off of TRT for 3 months and let my system reset. In March I will go back and have baselines done and then trying Clomid for 2 weeks. He said that he almost gurantees (almost) that I just need a kickstart. He is the fist doctor out of around 4 I tried that has even mention Clomid or any type of restart.

He says that low test and high free combined with low shbg can cause all the symptoms.

What do you guys think? Good new? Or should I not get my hopes up?

 

[Megatron28]

Why wait 3 months to start clomid? The exogenous test will have cleared your body a LOT faster than that. This is just going to be downright torture for you.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

Why wait 3 months to start clomid? The exogenous test will have cleared your body a LOT faster than that. This is just going to be downright torture for you.

I read and feel the same way. But at this point and as many doctors as I have tried I guess I will just have to be patient. He has been doing this for 40 years (not saying he is right) but I doubt he is going to listen to a 27 year old give him medical advice and I am running out of Doctors in my area.

It will be a huge gamble for sure. If I find out I don't need TRT and the Clomid works it will be worth it. If it doesn't work I will have wasted an additional 4 months to the 7 years I have already wasted feeling like this.

If you can think of a better way or have any other ideas please let me know.

 

[Megatron28]

Only better way I can think of is to discuss testosterone half life with him and hope he listens. Perhaps you could use the Socratic method with him.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

Link?

What I was thinking and it probably wont even be a lie is to call him in Feb and tell him I am not doing so good and see if he could see my any earlier. Whatever info I give him would have to be quick because of course it will be relayed to him by the nurse.

What a process this is. I know one thing...if I have to go back on I am going to figure out a way to join IMT. I hope this fixes it though as TRT is way more of pain in the ass (literally too) then I thought it would be.

 

[Megatron28]

Look it up on Wikipedia. Half life of testosterone cypionate.

IMT is supposed to have some great restart protocols. At least give them a call.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

Have already spoken with them. Great people. In the end it comes down to price for me right now. Not saying there service isn't worth what they are charging but if I can get fixed or medicated through insurance that is the best route for me right now.

Only other option I thought I could do is stay on the TRT (I have plenty) until about 45 days out. I dunno.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

any other advice? I guess I am kind of at the mercy of the doctor but I am really worried about how the next 3 months are going to be. Anyone else come off for that long?

 

[Alpin]

SERMS are not really for "restarts"....
SERMs like Clomid are totally different in chemical structure compared to bio identical Testosterone (the stuff you were on)
This is being proposed as a good deal for you when actually its not....
You either make it or break it on restarts and the way to find out is HCG.....
Your pituitary hormones are pretty decent. How does he justify saying you are "not primary"?
Would this doc discontinue a diabetic patients insulin to get a baseline for the tests he wants to perform ?

 

[Alpin]

Cliff notes...I have other threads on here as well.

27 Years old
Started TRT 4 Months ago after finding out I was at 247 Total and 248 a week later
Doctor gave me only 1 option and that was TRT
My Free was 80 and normal. LH/FSH were 3.1 and 5.8 I believe. Low SHBG

I didn't know better and jumped staright on it after a few nights reading that TRT was a life saver for a lot of people and I had most of all the symptoms.

4 Months later of 80mg 2x a week of Cyp and I was at 696 Total and 215 Free
Shbg still Low at 18.
Doc decided to tell me he wants to lower the dose and send me to specialist as he dosn't know mucha bout the subject.


I had given up and was just about to self medicate. I figured before my insurance resets maybe it wouldnt hurt to ge a pituitary scan just in case before the new year. Called the local hospital and took the fist appointment available. 80 year old doctor with 40 years experience.

His diagnosis.

I am NOT primary. He is going to let me do the scan for peace of mind. He is pulling me off of TRT for 3 months and let my system reset. In March I will go back and have baselines done and then trying Clomid for 2 weeks. He said that he almost gurantees (almost) that I just need a kickstart. He is the fist doctor out of around 4 I tried that has even mention Clomid or any type of restart.

He says that low test and high free combined with low shbg can cause all the symptoms.

What do you guys think? Good new? Or should I not get my hopes up?

I've been through all of this....restarts, TRT, staying off everything and the only guy that loses out of this is the hypogonadal patient. So he told you his diagnosis is that you are not primary. I had 2 endos tell me that and that my levels of T (same as yours) are totally normal and no TRT is needed. Does this make their diagnosis right ?
I've been running HCG 500 i.u. EOD and my T.T. is basically the same as being clean and my LH ranges from 3- 4IU/L and FSH 2-3 IU/L
My body is not even responding to decent amounts of LH analogue(from HCG).....
Primary is the only thing that this tells me.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

SERMS are not really for "restarts"....
SERMs like Clomid are totally different in chemical structure compared to bio identical Testosterone (the stuff you were on)
This is being proposed as a good deal for you when actually its not....
You either make it or break it on restarts and the way to find out is HCG.....
Your pituitary hormones are pretty decent. How does he justify saying you are "not primary"?
Would this doc discontinue a diabetic patients insulin to get a baseline for the tests he wants to perform ?

He said that he does not think I am primary because of my low SHBG and high Free test and the fact that I can put on muscle. I was bodybuilding prior to finding out I had T and had pretty good results. NO! I have never tried steroids before. I only say this because as soon as I bring up the weightlifting I get accused of abusing the drugs before and this is why my levels are messed up. I 100 percent assure you this is not the case. A needle is the last thing that I want...ever.

He said because I was a late bloomer that my pituitary was not yelling at my testicles and that the Clomid will kickstart this. He sounded very confident. I think that I am pushed 3 months out not because of medical reasons but because of scheduling reasons. As in they are very busy.

Also this article states that Clomid does work in young men. It is so hard to make a decision as everyone on every forum has a different opinion, thought, or belief.
I am not sure if it is okay to link other forums on here. So if it is a problem I will delete it.

http://thinksteroids.com/forum/mens-health-forum/positive-outcome-clomiphene-citrate-134313294.html

 

[Alpin]

And how is it that your endo put you on TRT at 27 y.o. ?
Do you plan to have a family some day ?
Have you discussed this with your endo ?
I didn't read anything about running HCG while on TRT in your post to keep your balls running.
All I'm saying is don't buy too much into these guys words...
they will literally drive you nuts!!!
And so what if clomid raises your T 200 ng/dl or so....
means nothing. Did you even ask this doc if the clomid works does he plan on keeping you on it ?
And who said clomid is a better option for HRT vs. T shots ?
Clomid's safety over long term use is not even studied. Clomid has been shown to cause irreversible optic nerve damage in some men...not frequent but still. Did your doc tell you this ?
The factory (machinery) doesn't work over time in men....things slow down.
Eventually we all need T shots. That's the way things are.

 

[Alpin]

He said that he does not think I am primary because of my low SHBG and high Free test and the fact that I can put on muscle. I was bodybuilding prior to finding out I had T and had pretty good results. NO! I have never tried steroids before. I only say this because as soon as I bring up the weightlifting I get accused of abusing the drugs before and this is why my levels are messed up. I 100 percent assure you this is not the case. A needle is the last thing that I want...ever.

He said because I was a late bloomer that my pituitary was not yelling at my testicles and that the Clomid will kickstart this. He sounded very confident. I think that I am pushed 3 months out not because of medical reasons but because of scheduling reasons. As in they are very busy.

Did you know him during puberty ?
how does he know you were a late bloomer ?
Sorry bro this is all anecdotal.
What dose does this Endo want to use ?
did he tell you ?
Who said you abused drugs for weight lifting the endo ?
hope it works for you.

 

[Alpin]

all I'm saying bro is I been through what you have and each endo has their own opinion. Most want you out of their hair. I've met plenty endos that were clueless with TRT and they would actually not prescribe TRT in guys with mid range 200's....that's how bad we are talking about!
It's actually better for them if you left and suffered in silence.
That's my 2 cents.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

No I did not not know during puberty but I know I was a late bloomer. No hair or height or changes until 17.
The endo wants me to come off trt for 3 months and then try clomid for 2 weeks. He said after that if it works I will be good to go. No more clomid or TRT.
2 doctors have asked me if I have used steroids and plenty of people on the forum because of my physique and the low T numbers.

Pleaes go back and see the link I posted here I edited. Please tell me what you think I should do as I am all ears.

 

[Alpin]

No I did not not know during puberty but I know I was a late bloomer. No hair or height or changes until 17.
The endo wants me to come off trt for 3 months and then try clomid for 2 weeks. He said after that if it works I will be good to go. No more clomid or TRT.
2 doctors have asked me if I have used steroids and plenty of people on the forum because of my physique and the low T numbers.

Pleaes go back and see the link I posted here I edited. Please tell me what you think I should do as I am all ears.

I'm not telling you anything in regards to what you should do. You decide.
After the 2 weeks of clomid everything will magically restart ?
Tell this doc he has some big shoes to fill in regards to your T levels getting to at least the mid range for decent health (where you have them now with T shots).
Please post the link for me bro....
I really don't want to go back and search.
Here to help, but I'm human too.
Run the MRI and see what comes of it.

 

[JonnyBravo22]

The link was like 3 post up haha...again if I am not supposed to post links to other forums I will delete.

Positive Outcome Of Clomiphene Citrate Treatment In Young Hypogonadal Men

 

[Alpin]

Clomid only works for so long...
Your first Endo should have tried it on you in the first place before putting a young man on a TRT protocol.

Curious to know where would you have found the stuff "to self medicate" with if you never used AAS before ?
Or do you just know some ppl?

 

[JonnyBravo22]

New of some people but that was not my source and was one of those guys that thought steroids were evil and didn't understand them at all. After being diagnosed I found all these forums to do research. After a few months of reading you discover rather quickly where and how easily it is to get everything.

So last question. If I am not primary and clomid is not the answer and the MRI comes back clean.....what is wrong with me!!!

I WAS NOT PLANNING ON SELF MEDICATING UNTIL ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO WHEN I LOST MY DOCTOR AND FOUND OUT THAT ALMOST NO DOCTORS WILL PRESCRIBE HCG IN MY AREA>

 

[Alpin]

why did you lose your doctor ?
I'm not saying Clomid is not the answer, or commenting on primary or secondary for that matter.
The first doc you had was an idiot.
When do you see this 80 year old endo next ?
when does he want you off of T shots ?
you levels will be lower when you come off TRT and so will LH/FSH levels.....
the first doc messed you up. Sorry.