Hamstring Contraction Exercises

[PowerBuilder]

As far as I know, the only weightlifting exercise that works the hamstrings by contracting them is some type of leg curl machine. Now I know a lot of you will say that Stiff Leg Deadlifts, Goodmornings, even squats are great hamstring exercises. But think about the physiology of the hamstrings. When they contract they bring your foot toward your ass. To me that implies that squats should be about as good for hams as bench pressing is for biceps. So when you do DLs, squats and those type of exercises your hams are under tension for support only. It could be that this is a superior way to work the hams, but still, they are not contracted for moving the weight, only under tension for support. Am I wrong about this?

 

[GymLift]

Well, I don't know a whole lot about the science behind this, but I can tell you this much. Yesterday I did squats and good mornings. Today my hams are a good bit sore.

 

[invisiblewounds]

The functions of the hamstrings are knee flexion and hip extension. There for squats and deads are very viable hamstring exercises.

 

[blackbeard]

theres nothing wrong with doing some leg curls once in awhile
however what do you really think is going to cause more strength/size gains

stiff legging 315 for reps or doing seated leg curls with 100lbs?
im not talking about the machine loaded ones i use the one that is plate loaded

 

[PowerBuilder]

The functions of the hamstrings are knee flexion and hip extension. There for squats and deads are very viable hamstring exercises.

The main source of my confusion is the fact that if this were true, you will be contracting both your quads and your hams at the same time when you do squats: Quads to extend at the knee and hams to extend at the hip. But your hams are also supposed to flex at the knee when they contract. So in this case your knee should be both flexing and extending at the same time while you stand up in the concentric part of a squat - which obviously doesnt happen

 

[pullinbig]

The main source of my confusion is the fact that if this were true, you will be contracting both your quads and your hams at the same time when you do squats: Quads to extend at the knee and hams to extend at the hip. But your hams are also supposed to flex at the knee when they contract. So in this case your knee should be both flexing and extending at the same time while you stand up in the concentric part of a squat - which obviously doesnt happen

you thinking too much. you want big strong hams? deads, pull thrus, glute ham raises, reverse hypers, 45° hypers, dimel deads, sldl, gm variations, etc.........

 

[iron addict]

Anyone that says squats, GM's, and deads don't work the hell out of hams has NEVER done the lifts with anything but girl weights.

IA

 

[invisiblewounds]

The main source of my confusion is the fact that if this were true, you will be contracting both your quads and your hams at the same time when you do squats: Quads to extend at the knee and hams to extend at the hip. But your hams are also supposed to flex at the knee when they contract. So in this case your knee should be both flexing and extending at the same time while you stand up in the concentric part of a squat - which obviously doesnt happen

The quads are really only active after the hip sinks below 90 degrees. A very simple illustration...compare the quad development of a powerlifter and an olympic style lifter. The olympic style lifter tends to have much greater development through the vastus and extensor muscles, due to there lower squatting position. The quads activate to get the hips to parallel, then the larger muscles of the posterior chain take over.

As I said before, the hamstrings serve 2 purposes, extension and flexion. The only action in which both occur at high velocities and tension is sprinting. Thus the reason most sprinters have fantastic hind leg development.

 

[PowerBuilder]

Thanks for clearing this up invisiblewounds. That was a very good explanation. I think I am starting to visualize how it works.

Everyone else, yeah I know that deads, squats and goodmornings are good ham exercises. I never doubted that they worked the hams. I didn't ask for some good ham exercises. I'm not thinking too much, I'm truely interested in the mechanics of the lifts. I just doubted that the hams contracted during the concentric portion of the movement and I was thinking that maybe they were just stabilizers. Im beginning to understand now why they are not just stabilizers. I don't mean to sound unthankful for the replies, I respect everyone's answers. I'm just restating my original question to better everyone's knowledge.

 

[iron addict]

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but instead of all that visualization you are doing, put a heavy ass bar on your back and do some deep squats. You will then have all the "evidence" you need.

IA

 

[Insane_Man]

Excellent explanation invisible wounds.

 

[pullinbig]

Thanks for clearing this up invisiblewounds. That was a very good explanation. I think I am starting to visualize how it works.

Everyone else, yeah I know that deads, squats and goodmornings are good ham exercises. I never doubted that they worked the hams. I didn't ask for some good ham exercises. I'm not thinking too much, I'm truely interested in the mechanics of the lifts. I just doubted that the hams contracted during the concentric portion of the movement and I was thinking that maybe they were just stabilizers. Im beginning to understand now why they are not just stabilizers. I don't mean to sound unthankful for the replies, I respect everyone's answers. I'm just restating my original question to better everyone's knowledge.

not trying to sound unthankful, but the knowledge i have was learned in the gym and not in a book. or better yet learned in my heart and not in my head.

lifting is as simple as it gets. im always baffled at how people try to make a basic survival instynct over complicated. if i perform a movement and feel it in a certain area then i know its working that area. i dont need to visualize anything, i felt it.

no disrepect intended powerbuilder. just stating the obvious.

 

[PowerBuilder]

I must have failed to clarify the intent of my original question. I'll make one more attempt. Just because you know that something is 'working' does not mean that you automatically know all of the intricacies of the muscles' mechanical functions. That is what my question was about. It wasn't about advice for gettin big n' strong hams. I could do isomorphic exercises where I contract my hams that could make them as sore as hell without them being involved in ANY flexion or extension or rotation or any other kind of movement. Based on the feeling I would know only that I was working/contracting them. How would doing deep squats prove that hams are working as an extensor in one part and/or a flexor in another part? The subject of the mechanics and biology of muscles is actually very complicated and there is a lot that people still don't know about it. It gets down to unsolved physics, biology, mathematics, and engineering problems. It can get as complicated as you want it to as you look at what is happening in greater and greater detail. Now maybe by feel I can learn everything I need to know about "lifting" for size and strength gains in the gym. That won't mean that I will know everything about how muscles work.

 

[iron addict]

Well perhaps you should go to physiology board if that is what you "need" to know. Most here need to know if it works or not for getting a trainee bigger and stronger. Everything else is mental mastrubation. And if that is what you like, that is OK too, but quite frankly you can read whatever you want and if it doesn't work in the gym, it's meaningless.

You can complicate it until your head spins, but all that does is make things more complicated and likely less efficient for YOUR gains, if you are a lifter. Deads, pull thrus, glute ham raises, reverse hypers, 45° hypers, dimel deads, sldl, gm variations, and squat variations are all you need to know if you want results, not intellectual stimulation.

IA

IA

 

[GymLift]

PowerBuilder is just the kind of guy that wants to understand how things work. I can't blame him 'cause I'm the same way. And it is a hard matter to totally figure out and so we've got a lot more theory out there than fact. So we're lucky that we have have things that just "work" (lifting) and, we are also fortunate to know the things that work best. Pullinbig, iron addict, and many other good members of this forum have the experience to know what works best; and the rest of us are lucky to have found these great men.

 

[blackbeard]

I must have failed to clarify the intent of my original question. I'll make one more attempt. Just because you know that something is 'working' does not mean that you automatically know all of the intricacies of the muscles' mechanical functions. That is what my question was about. It wasn't about advice for gettin big n' strong hams. I could do isomorphic exercises where I contract my hams that could make them as sore as hell without them being involved in ANY flexion or extension or rotation or any other kind of movement. Based on the feeling I would know only that I was working/contracting them. How would doing deep squats prove that hams are working as an extensor in one part and/or a flexor in another part? The subject of the mechanics and biology of muscles is actually very complicated and there is a lot that people still don't know about it. It gets down to unsolved physics, biology, mathematics, and engineering problems. It can get as complicated as you want it to as you look at what is happening in greater and greater detail. Now maybe by feel I can learn everything I need to know about "lifting" for size and strength gains in the gym. That won't mean that I will know everything about how muscles work.

so you are interested in the biomehanics- that is fine
but remember most people lift to see RESULTS
everyones goals may be different but in te end we all want to do the things that will achieve our goals..

I am not sure why you seek this info since it will not help you to get bigger/stronger/leaner/or become a better athlete..most poeple on this board will tell you what works and thats that..many of us give you advice through experience PB has been around many top PL'ers IA has trained many clients and knows what works etc..so when you come on here and ask about hamstrings you are not going to get a scientific answer..in fact it sounds as if you are reading a book to be come a pesonal trainer because that is the type of bullshit they make you read..pikc a movmenet from the list PB gave you dimels, 45,reverse hypers, sldl, gm's, wide box squats etc those are bread and butter..
is it ok to do ham curls once in awhile-yeah just dont rely on them

 

[PowerBuilder]

so you are interested in the biomehanics- that is fine
but remember most people lift to see RESULTS
everyones goals may be different but in te end we all want to do the things that will achieve our goals..

I am not sure why you seek this info since it will not help you to get bigger/stronger/leaner/or become a better athlete..most poeple on this board will tell you what works and thats that..many of us give you advice through experience PB has been around many top PL'ers IA has trained many clients and knows what works etc..so when you come on here and ask about hamstrings you are not going to get a scientific answer..in fact it sounds as if you are reading a book to be come a pesonal trainer because that is the type of bullshit they make you read..pikc a movmenet from the list PB gave you dimels, 45,reverse hypers, sldl, gm's, wide box squats etc those are bread and butter..
is it ok to do ham curls once in awhile-yeah just dont rely on them

I got the answer I was looking for from invisiblewounds' second post way up there. There are obviously a few others here interested in scientific explainations. Im not reading a book to become a personal trainer. I believe that the more I know about how different muscles function in a lift, the better the mind-muscle connection I will have. So in effect, I do beleive that this information could help with one's training. I understand that many of you won't agree with this. That's fine, we don't have to agree on everything. ...I am currently doing gms and stiffleg deadlifts in my routine by the way.

 

[blackbeard]

I got the answer I was looking for from invisiblewounds' second post way up there. There are obviously a few others here interested in scientific explainations. Im not reading a book to become a personal trainer. I believe that the more I know about how different muscles function in a lift, the better the mind-muscle connection I will have. So in effect, I do beleive that this information could help with one's training. I understand that many of you will disagree won't agree with this. That's fine, we don't have to agree on everything. ...I am currently doing gms and stiffleg deadlifts in my routine by the way.

good do not drop them in order to do leg curls
but like i said its ok to take a break from GM's etc and do some leg curls for 3 weeks or so then hit up the bigger lifts

 

[pullinbig]

I got the answer I was looking for from invisiblewounds' second post way up there. There are obviously a few others here interested in scientific explainations. Im not reading a book to become a personal trainer. I believe that the more I know about how different muscles function in a lift, the better the mind-muscle connection I will have. So in effect, I do beleive that this information could help with one's training. I understand that many of you won't agree with this. That's fine, we don't have to agree on everything. ...I am currently doing gms and stiffleg deadlifts in my routine by the way.

would you mind posting your training log in the jouranl section so we can follow your progress?

thanks

 

[PowerBuilder]

would you mind posting your training log in the jouranl section so we can follow your progress?

thanks

Sure, that's a good idea.
PowerBuilder's Workout Log