HCG during VS after cycle

[kev ute]

Here's the situation, i've done two cycles before. 1st one was couple years ago of test cyp and eq. I stupidly only used nolva for my post cycle therapy (pct). Kept some of the gains.

2nd cycle was last spring. Just did straight test cyp at 500mg/week for 10 weeks. For post cycle therapy (pct) waited two weeks then started nolva at 40mg/day for 35 days and dropped to 20mg/day till the bottle was gone. and also started Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). I had 5000iu's. I took it in 5 shots each 1000 iu's every 3 days.

I found that this worked pretty good. Kept more gains and recovered much faster than the 1st cycle.

I always thought that hcg was for after cycle, Now i've been reading a lot about how hcg should be taken through out the cycle. And what i read makes a lot of sense.

Currently i'm on test cyp at 600mg/week. and at the beginning of the cycle i used tbol for 6 weeks as a kick start. I've been using armidex at .25 mg eod for the cycle to help keep my estrogen levels in check. I'm about 11 weeks in and results have been great. In 1 week i'll be switching to test prop for 3 weeks to finish out the cycle. I'm switching to prop cuz its ester is only 3 days. and during those 3 weeks of prop the longer cyp ester can run itself out. Allowing me to start post cycle therapy (pct) sooner.

As you can see i haven't been running any Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). Should i start it now at higher doses, running it till my cycle is over, hoping to jump start my testes before the cycle ends. And then start nolva after my cycle.

Or should i just wait till cycle is over and start hcg then.

What is my best plan of attack given the situation.

 

[mason95]

I would start the hcg right away and finish it with the prop. Yes you can take it in larger doses. There is an upper limit to the useable amount but I'm not sure what it is right now. I've taken up to 1500iu at one time though.

You do not want to use hcg post cycle. It will delay recovery. Plenty of good info about this on the board, some of it very recent.

 

[SenseiMiagi9494]

There has been a shift in philosophies through the years regarding hcg...the current strategy is to use it during your cycle to help ease the recovery post cycle.

 

[kev ute]

There has been a shift in philosophies through the years regarding hcg...the current strategy is to use it during your cycle to help ease the recovery post cycle.

Yeah, last year when i was doing a lot of research on hcg the concensus was to use it post cycle. Then recently i've been reading the total opposite. But using through out the cycle makes sense.

 

[kev ute]

I would start the hcg right away and finish it with the prop. Yes you can take it in larger doses. There is an upper limit to the useable amount but I'm not sure what it is right now. I've taken up to 1500iu at one time though.

You do not want to use hcg post cycle. It will delay recovery. Plenty of good info about this on the board, some of it very recent.

Thanks, thats exactly what i'm gonna do. Thinking i'm gonna do 1250 iu shots till the prop is finished, then start nolva at 40mg/day. Thanks for the input.

Is every 3 days good, or should i go e2d to try and catch up?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

The problem with the new philospy is that it does not take into account the importance of blasting HCG during the T decline. although running it on cycle is very efficient, it is more important to "blast" during the time you are waiting to start you SERM treatment.

500iu a week does little to nothing to get the boys pumping T. 3k a week is what you need to do that.

I would suggest 1k a week during a heavy cycle. Blasting it at 1k-1500iu EOD for 2 weeks before commencing SERM treatment

 

[kev ute]

Is that the method that you use? So are you saying that you start your hcg about 2 weeks before the end of your cycle?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

No. I would start HCG at the begining of your cycle at a moderate dose. then starting 2 weeks before my SERM treatment i would increase to a "blast dose". the 2 doses would depend on how heavy my cycle was. always stop HCG 4 days before clomid/nolva treatment.

 

[Repo]

This is great info OAk as I won't be able to start HCG until 8-9 weeks into my cycle.

Being a bewbie - I mean newbie - I won't have my HCG for about 3 more weeks ... I have a couple questions in relation to this subject - but I don't want to hijack the thread as it deviates just a little - (at least it gives me a little more time for research anyway)

As I get closer to starting HCG I'll start a new thread to see if you and the guys give my plans a thumbs up I should have plenty of everything needed to make changes if needed.

Thanks for the great info!

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

no prob repo

 

[akka]

woah wait? 'stupidly' only used nolva for pct? whats wrong with just using nolva? that's what i'm doing.

 

[RJ]

woah wait? 'stupidly' only used nolva for pct? whats wrong with just using nolva? that's what i'm doing.

nothing. but IMO its the worst of the three to use individually. You should try Toremifene Citrate.

 

[gorillaglue]

The problem with the new philospy is that it does not take into account the importance of blasting HCG during the T decline. although running it on cycle is very efficient, it is more important to "blast" during the time you are waiting to start you SERM treatment.

500iu a week does little to nothing to get the boys pumping T. 3k a week is what you need to do that.

I would suggest 1k a week during a heavy cycle. Blasting it at 1k-1500iu EOD for 2 weeks before commencing SERM treatment

Good advice DET, and it actually makes a lot of sense even given my current understanding of the best way to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). I think I will be doing the 2 week blast dosing as you suggest, maybe 1000IU e4d, in addition to my on cycle HCG (which I have been doing already). I also agree that 500IU a week on cycle does very little-my nuts still shrunk a LOT until I boosted the on cycle dose to 500IU e4d.

I tried to rep you.

 

[gorillaglue]

nothing. but IMO its the worst of the three to use individually. You should try Toremifene Citrate.

I have to agree. I've done a solo nolva post cycle therapy (pct) and my bloodwork showed LH and total test recovered, but the bloodwork I see from toremifene and clomid (together or alone) blow nolva away-like an LH of 3x the ULN instead of just slightly above the ULN, etc. I've used toremifene citrate twice so far and empirically, my nuts say it works much better and faster than nolva without libido issues and less hot flashes, etc ad nauseum.

Edit: BTW, RJ, that video in your sig had me crying laughing yesterday, but newbs DO need to watch it. The humor is just a bonus.

 

[RJ]

Edit: BTW, RJ, that video in your sig had me crying laughing yesterday, but newbs DO need to watch it. The humor is just a bonus.

haha. Det did a great job putting that together for us all. I'm just hoping it will work.

 

[kev ute]

No. I would start HCG at the begining of your cycle at a moderate dose. then starting 2 weeks before my SERM treatment i would increase to a "blast dose". the 2 doses would depend on how heavy my cycle was. always stop HCG 4 days before clomid/nolva treatment.

So seeing how is i have about 3 to 3 1/2 weeks left. Starting to blast the hcg now would be a good idea, especially cuz i haven't been using any yet.

I Should maybe blast a little harder than usual because i've been shut down for too long?

I've already got the nolva, so i'm gonna use it when appropriate. But Should i add clomid to the mix as well or would this be over kill/ not make much of a difference?

Thanks for any and all input on this matter and my situation.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

you got 3.5 weeks to go before cycle ends or until SERM treatment starts? what was your cycle? compounds and dosages?

 

[kev ute]

sorry, 3 1/2 weeks till last test prop shot. 2 days till last test cyp shot. i was running cyp at 600mg/week. and prop will be 125mg eod.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

is test the only AAS you ran on your cycle?

 

[akka]

I have to agree. I've done a solo nolva post cycle therapy (pct) and my bloodwork showed LH and total test recovered, but the bloodwork I see from toremifene and clomid (together or alone) blow nolva away-like an LH of 3x the ULN instead of just slightly above the ULN, etc. I've used toremifene citrate twice so far and empirically, my nuts say it works much better and faster than nolva without libido issues and less hot flashes, etc ad nauseum.

Edit: BTW, RJ, that video in your sig had me crying laughing yesterday, but newbs DO need to watch it. The humor is just a bonus.

what do you guys think would be more effective;
using nolva and clomid for post cycle therapy (pct), but no hcg during cycle.
using nolva alone for post cycle therapy (pct) but doing a hcg blast at the end of my cycle.

So seeing how is i have about 3 to 3 1/2 weeks left. Starting to blast the hcg now would be a good idea, especially cuz i haven't been using any yet.

I Should maybe blast a little harder than usual because i've been shut down for too long?

I've already got the nolva, so i'm gonna use it when appropriate. But Should i add clomid to the mix as well or would this be over kill/ not make much of a difference?

Thanks for any and all input on this matter and my situation.

can you update this with your results? i dont know much about this hcg blast approach... are there usually any side effects?