Help, bout ready to give up on TRT

[ezed413]

Hi all, I am new to the forum. I am a 58 yo man in pretty good health. No BP problems. I went to a male clinic because of my low libido. Had my total testosterone tested, and it was 400 ng/dl. Doctor suggested I go on Androgel, so I did. Have been on Androgel 1.62 since for about 5 months now. I really have not felt the benefits of T because I can't seem to control the E2 with arimidex. I am either too high, or too low. Either one is not good, and has actually made my libido worse! I thought I was going to have this jacked up libido on androgel. A few weeks back I took 1mg for about 5 days in row, and I finally had my E2 tested at my request, and it was 14. So I stopped adex for about 4 days, and I got strong night time wood that night. I did not take it for 5 days, and got wood every night, so I figured my E2 was where it should be. But then I lost it 5 days ago, and have taken adex for 4 days in a row, and it's still has not come down. I have tried to get the arimidex dose right by the night time wood test, but this has just been damned hard to do. I had gotten up to 750 ng/dl with two pumps of androgel. Bout three weeks ago, he upped my dose to 4 pumps. Anyways, I am thinking of just stopping it altogether. My girl friend seems to think I don't need it, and that I was better off without it. My question, for a man my age, is 400 ng/dl that bad. Maybe all I needed was to get my E2 down. This is messing up my sex life big time. Thanks.

PS: Was on Lexapro for about the same amount of time, and switched to wellbutrin about a week ago, as I heard that lexapro can have sexual side effects.

 

[JOWS7]

Hard to follow where your E2 is when dosage is constantly changing. Was your E2 elevated prior to TRT? Was it elevated during TRT? I wouldn't use your "night-time-wood-test" as a reliable indicator of E2 levels either. Could you provide lab values and dates?

Interesting reading about your Lexapro use. I've been trying to regain my libido for awhile now - I've tried injections and currently on gels, I've tried chasing optimal E2 levels and DHT levels in conjunction with TT and FT levels to no avail. I am currently on Lexapro myself although I never really suspected the Lexapro was the culprit because I've been on it since 2003 - was off briefly in 07-08 - but libido was not affected. It wasn't until 2010 that I saw my libido disappear but again, I've been on Lexapro for a number of years. What dosage are you on and how long have you been on it?

Good Luck

 

[Mprtz]

I'm sure you have your reasons for using gel instead of injections, and you're probably aware of the advantages of injecting. In your situation, one of the variables (unknown and varying absorption of the gel) would be eliminated and you might have an easier time getting consistent levels.

It looks to me like you are over-correcting with your adex dosage. You need to maintain a consistent dosage for a while, then test. As you probably know, adex doesn't directly reduce E2, but binds to the enzyme responsible for the conversion.

 

[yellowballs]

Did I read it right that you were taking adex at 1mg a day? If so that is way too much.

 

[ezed413]

Did I read it right that you were taking adex at 1mg a day? If so that is way too much.

Yes, I took 1mg ED for 5 days yes, and then I was tested for the very first time since being on the gel. My E2 was 14. When I found out I was this low, I stopped until I got good RSW (Rem sleep wood), and didn't take it for 5 days, and then the RSW stopped. So now I have taken it again for like 4 days in a row, and I got some wood last night. My doctor only checked estrogen once before that, and it was total estrogen. So I guess I am just taking way too much of this sheet. We have one guy on the other forum that takes 2.5mg a day.

 

[ezed413]

mprtz, not particularly, it's just what the doctor suggested.

 

[Dreaded Pirate Roberts]

You need Testosterone injections the andro gel doesn't work well. Contact the guys at increase my T. They will get your straight

 

[Mprtz]

mprtz, not particularly, it's just what the doctor suggested.

In that case check out some of the threads where injection vs. gels is discussed. You may come away thinking (as most here do) that there are few advantages to gels beyond being more profitable.

 

[ezed413]

None of you guys answered if a total Testosterone of 400 was that low for a guy my age. That was my natural number. I must say, I do feel like there might be a positive out of this and that is, before starting, I had a low level pain in my right hip. Just noticed the other day that it is gone. So what do you guys suggest, stop taking it for 3 days, and then take like .5mg e3d. They said at the clinic that most men do ok on 1.5mg a week. I don't know, I was going by what the resident expert said on the other forum with the RSW way of determining where your E2 is at.

 

[ezed413]

In that case check out some of the threads where injection vs. gels is discussed. You may come away thinking (as most here do) that there are few advantages to gels beyond being more profitable.

but I did get my testosterone up to 750 on the gel. I will read the threads. Why, is this a common problem with gels, the E2 issue. The one thing I like about the gel, is I am only paying $10 a month for it.

 

[ezed413]

You need Testosterone injections the andro gel doesn't work well. Contact the guys at increase my T. They will get your straight

But I don't understand. Whats the difference. My T leveled doubled with two pumps. No I am on 4 pumps, and I have to believe its even higher now.

 

[Mprtz]

but I did get my testosterone up to 750 on the gel. I will read the threads. Why, is this a common problem with gels, the E2 issue. The one thing I like about the gel, is I am only paying $10 a month for it.

I don't have any personal experience with the gels, but I have read that they do have the potential to aromatize more. I don't remember the reasoning, but could probably find it.

Insurance aside, the gels are way more expensive because they are under patent and the injectables are not. Are you sure injectables would cost you more on your insurance plan?

 

[ezed413]

No, I don't know that they would cost more. I am really just not feeling it on TRT. I don't feel like it has helped that much, after all, I really did it to see if it would increase my libido, and it hasn't. I am really considering stopping. My boys haven't totally shut down, as I have taken clomid at least once a week.

 

[Mprtz]

No, I don't know that they would cost more. I am really just not feeling it on TRT. I don't feel like it has helped that much, after all, I really did it to see if it would increase my libido, and it hasn't. I am really considering stopping. My boys haven't totally shut down, as I have taken clomid at least once a week.

Well 400 isn't all that low and possibly your lack of libido isn't really due to low T. Maybe it's the other medications you mentioned. If you're going to turn back, as it were, I'm sure the earlier the better and I wish you the best of luck - make sure that you get the best information and support on your restart that you can. I don't know if Clomid keeps up testicular production the way that HCG does, but even so that doesn't mean that you are not shut down. Got any labs that show LH, FSH?

 

[ezed413]

Hard to follow where your E2 is when dosage is constantly changing. Was your E2 elevated prior to TRT? Was it elevated during TRT? I wouldn't use your "night-time-wood-test" as a reliable indicator of E2 levels either. Could you provide lab values and dates?

Interesting reading about your Lexapro use. I've been trying to regain my libido for awhile now - I've tried injections and currently on gels, I've tried chasing optimal E2 levels and DHT levels in conjunction with TT and FT levels to no avail. I am currently on Lexapro myself although I never really suspected the Lexapro was the culprit because I've been on it since 2003 - was off briefly in 07-08 - but libido was not affected. It wasn't until 2010 that I saw my libido disappear but again, I've been on Lexapro for a number of years. What dosage are you on and how long have you been on it?

Good Luck

I was on lexapro for about 5 months, I have only been off of it about a week and a half. I started Wellbutrin about 4 days ago. Look it up, SSRIs are notorious for causing libido/ED issues.

 

[ezed413]

Well 400 isn't all that low and possibly your lack of libido isn't really due to low T. Maybe it's the other medications you mentioned. If you're going to turn back, as it were, I'm sure the earlier the better and I wish you the best of luck - make sure that you get the best information and support on your restart that you can. I don't know if Clomid keeps up testicular production the way that HCG does, but even so that doesn't mean that you are not shut down. Got any labs that show LH, FSH?

no I don't have labs for that. You don't advise just stopping then. Where can I get HCG?

 

[Mprtz]

no I don't have labs for that. You don't advise just stopping then. Where can I get HCG?

Beyond advising that you don't just stop, I don't really feel qualified to give advice on restart. Usually clomid and nolvadex is involved. If your doctor is unconcerned I'd get a second opinion - consider talking to forum sponsor IMT - they offer a program on HPTA recovery I believe.

Maybe you could just stop and your body will return to normal on its own - but if it were me I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Brunodk]

In my mind, you shouldn't be considering dropping TRT...you should be considering finding a new doctor. Your protocol is all over the place. There's no consistency. It seems like things are changed up randomly without bloodwork and an appropriate amount of time to give the protocol a chance (eg your AI use). You are using a far inferior product in gels which is likely one reason for your E2 fluctuations. And clomid once a week is an unusual addition to TRT. Most guys will use HCG. Clomid is typically used in restart attempts and not as a compliment to TRT.

To be honest, your protocol has not given you a chance to benefit from TRT. It's not a surprise at all that you aren't feeling any improvement. Get a better doctor or call IMT.

 

[ezed413]

Beyond advising that you don't just stop, I don't really feel qualified to give advice on restart. Usually clomid and nolvadex is involved. If your doctor is unconcerned I'd get a second opinion - consider talking to forum sponsor IMT - they offer a program on HPTA recovery I believe.

Maybe you could just stop and your body will return to normal on its own - but if it were me I wouldn't risk it.

No, I asked my doctor about over the phone. He doesn't want me to just quit. I had rsw last night, and feel good this morning. I will start taking a consistent dose of arimidex. Going to try .5mg EOD. I have not been consistent with the arimidex since starting the gel. I'll give it a go. Also thinking about asking the doctor about doing the injections.

 

[JOWS7]

Hard to follow where your E2 is when dosage is constantly changing. Was your E2 elevated prior to TRT? Was it elevated during TRT? I wouldn't use your "night-time-wood-test" as a reliable indicator of E2 levels either. Could you provide lab values and dates?

Interesting reading about your Lexapro use. I've been trying to regain my libido for awhile now - I've tried injections and currently on gels, I've tried chasing optimal E2 levels and DHT levels in conjunction with TT and FT levels to no avail. I am currently on Lexapro myself although I never really suspected the Lexapro was the culprit because I've been on it since 2003 - was off briefly in 07-08 - but libido was not affected. It wasn't until 2010 that I saw my libido disappear but again, I've been on Lexapro for a number of years. What dosage are you on and how long have you been on it?

Good Luck

I was on lexapro for about 5 months, I have only been off of it about a week and a half. I started Wellbutrin about 4 days ago. Look it up, SSRIs are notorious for causing libido/ED issues.

Again, do you have any lab values regarding E2 pre-TRT or while on TRT? The doctor put you on Lexapro and TRT at the same time? What was the reason for the Lexapro? Depression, Anxiety?

I don't know, I was going by what the resident expert said on the other forum with the RSW way of determining where your E2 is at.

Do you have a link? Unless its supported by some research, it sounds like more word-of-mouth pseudoscience.