help with bloodwork results

[rational16]

Hey boys so i know I have low t, i got a test in February and dr has referred me to an endo, im a bit to young for TRT tho and still havent seen the endo yet.my test level in february was 3.5n/mol which is about 103ng/dl. So I waited a month and hit up private md labs and got my results yesterday at 263 mg/dl which turns out to be 9.1 nmol im not sure about the spike in 1.5 months. anyways, so i need to know what you guys can tell me about my recent results.

Brackets is what my level is the others are the normal range

Testosterone, Serum (263) LOW 348-1197 ng/dL
LH (5.4) 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL 0
FSH (3.2) 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL 0
Estradiol (13.1) 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

27 yrs old,
2 test-p/var cycles last year using Time on +pct= time off
its been about 10 months since my last cycle

 

[hiram1st]

Your lh and fsh seem to show you resrarted.

What was your PCT protocol?

Do you have blood work from pre first cycle to compare?

Alot of things can affect your testosterone read this link:
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/testosterone-replacement-therapy/662394-basic-trt-overview.html

I'm sure a more seasoned vet will be chiming in.

Good luck

 

[rational16]

my pct consisted of
Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 50/25/25/25

I did have bloodwork from before these two cycles. however i dont have any bloodwork of normal results from before my first cycle ever done. i started at 22 and I wasnt smart, and didnt do pre blood work. so what i have to work on are these results.

this blood work is from before my two recent cycles. i was Clean for 3 years just before these results:
testosteron -306 ng/dl
lh -8.6
fh -4.3
estradial -15.6

these results are from my just before my second test cycle:

testosteron - 255
Lh - 5.1
FSH - 2.8
Estradiol -16.2

 

[Xander24]

You were already low on test before you hit your two cycles. Your E2 is on the low side as well, most certainly due to low test and low aromatisation. Your LH and FSH looked OK before, and have bounced back somewhat, so if I were a doc or endo I'd be thinking primary hypogonadism if I had access to both sets of bloods. Are you going to tell him about your AAS usage? You're HP in the HPTA seemed to be working just fine, and the T was the one misfiring before cycling.

Another PCT might be worth trying. This time, before going to see him you could hit some clomid and tore, rather than nolva, and get a surge of FSH and LH to see if that gets your leydig cells stimulated further to produce more test. Take 30mg of Clomid and 60mg of Torem / day for 8 weeks, and then wait 6 weeks before drawing private bloodwork again. There is no need to go higher than 30mg of clomid, mate. It's a harsh medicine for men, and 30mg is effective. You didn't mention HCG in your cycles or post cycle/ pre PCT regimen. A 10 day blast of 500iu / day of HCG post cycle and pre PCT can make all the difference in the world to your recovery. That said, I wouldn't do an HCG Blast now as it would suppress your pituitary and your LH and FSH would drop, and you want to keep those working for you. You could also take some Aromasin to get some test production going that way as well, but your E2 is already low so that is as risky as taking HCG at this point. Safest bet is to take the Clomid and Torem to see if that can restart you.

You probably should be prepared that you will not get your test levels up above that 300 mark pre cycle. Restarts have been done before and can be successful, but you need to go see that endo. I'd be cautious about sharing your AAS usage, as you look to be a good candidate for TRT (secondary Hypogonadism) with your current bloods, and some docs are idiots about prescribing that to AAS users. Keep us posted on your progress please.

 

[Megatron28]

You have secondary hypogonadism. Likely induced by using AAS while your endocrine system was still developing. You need to either try another HPTA restart or sign up for TRT for the rest of your life. Hopefully you knew the risks going in when you started using AAS.

 

[tury694]

Sounds like you are ready to hit up the trt forum. Like Mega said I hope you knew this was an outcome. Even with a good pct, which you did, permanent shutdown is possible. Good luck and remember that trt is not the worst thing and hopefully you don't mind pinning for life. You will be OK brother and everyone here will help you out.

 

[rational16]

Thanks for all the help, i think that I am going to do a restart, as mentioned in this forum, unfortunately when I started a few years back i knew nothing, up until my last two cycles but I took that risk, personally, i dont want to start TRT and this young of an age, i dont know why, im hoping the restart will work, and if not, probably just put up with my levels until I am older. I dont have very many sides, besides midsection weight gain which i think i can hit with good excersie. other than my symptoms are none. Libido is there and energy is there to.

So I cant get in to my endo until about 2 months due to a new job I have and the times wont allow me to get there. until then I will try the 30mg of Clomid and 60mg of Torem / day for 8 weeks for a restart and go from there. I will update you all with any new info I get appreciate the help!

if anyone else has any other info please chime in.

 

[tury694]

Thanks for all the help, i think that I am going to do a restart, as mentioned in this forum, unfortunately when I started a few years back i knew nothing, up until my last two cycles but I took that risk, personally, i dont want to start TRT and this young of an age, i dont know why, im hoping the restart will work, and if not, probably just put up with my levels until I am older. I dont have very many sides, besides midsection weight gain which i think i can hit with good excersie. other than my symptoms are none. Libido is there and energy is there to.

So I cant get in to my endo until about 2 months due to a new job I have and the times wont allow me to get there. until then I will try the 30mg of Clomid and 60mg of Torem / day for 8 weeks for a restart and go from there. I will update you all with any new info I get appreciate the help!

if anyone else has any other info please chime in.

Even with a good restart your levels will probably only get to about 350-400 ng/dl. Would you be happy with that low of a reading just as long as it is within range? At what time of day did you have your blood drawn in the initial test? Depending on the time of day your test levels fluctuate. Good luck bud.

 

[Megatron28]

Don't forget that being hypogonadal has serious longterm health effects. I like to use blood pressure as an analogy. You can have high BP but you likely will not feel any different or notice any symptoms. But years and years of high BP takes an serious toll on your health. That's why the call it the Silent Killer.

Hypogonadism is very similar. You might figure out how to eek by and deal with it until it gets really bad. But just because the side effects are "manageable" at this point, don't think you are fine. Testosterone plays a very important role in your health. Waiting to get on TRT if the restart fails is not a too decision in my opinion.

 

[George1989]

Thanks for all the help, i think that I am going to do a restart, as mentioned in this forum, unfortunately when I started a few years back i knew nothing, up until my last two cycles but I took that risk, personally, i dont want to start TRT and this young of an age, i dont know why, im hoping the restart will work, and if not, probably just put up with my levels until I am older. I dont have very many sides, besides midsection weight gain which i think i can hit with good excersie. other than my symptoms are none. Libido is there and energy is there to.

So I cant get in to my endo until about 2 months due to a new job I have and the times wont allow me to get there. until then I will try the 30mg of Clomid and 60mg of Torem / day for 8 weeks for a restart and go from there. I will update you all with any new info I get appreciate the help!

if anyone else has any other info please chime in.

Hello my friend, i am not a doctor or anything like that so my advice is just my personal opinion.

I made the mistake and used steroids when i was younger, now i am 25 trying to do a restart,

This is my story
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/m...1-hypogonadism-help-problem-low-hormones.html

I used hcg and it really helped me, after that i started nolvadex and clomid i have one more week and i will do a bloodwork
(i will post the results in my thread when i have them).

Now for TRT i am also very young for going that way. But my opinion is that if you are not getting the results that you want from the restarts then you really dont have a better option.

I believe that it is better to go for TRT and live your life at the maximum than go with nolvadex, clomid , hcg and all the others drugs.

The good thing is that my doctor is willing to put me on TRT if i failed on this restart.

I have lost one year of my life with hypogonadism and trying for restarts.

I believe that you should take hcg for a while and then go with nolva and clomid. And if that fails then you should go fot TRT.

This site and the people in here are very helpful and they have good advices from their life experiences.

 

[Xander24]

Thanks for all the help, i think that I am going to do a restart, as mentioned in this forum, unfortunately when I started a few years back i knew nothing, up until my last two cycles but I took that risk, personally, i dont want to start TRT and this young of an age, i dont know why, im hoping the restart will work, and if not, probably just put up with my levels until I am older. I dont have very many sides, besides midsection weight gain which i think i can hit with good excersie. other than my symptoms are none. Libido is there and energy is there to.

So I cant get in to my endo until about 2 months due to a new job I have and the times wont allow me to get there. until then I will try the 30mg of Clomid and 60mg of Torem / day for 8 weeks for a restart and go from there. I will update you all with any new info I get appreciate the help!

if anyone else has any other info please chime in.

If you can't get to the endo for 2 months then fair enough, try the restart. If you are going to do it then do it right. If it were me, and this contradicts what I said above as I am now saying add the HCG, I would do the following protocol:

HCG: 500iu/Day for 10 days. Some say blast 2000 EOD, but I don't feel that is necessary,
Aromasin: 6.25mg/day for 10 days

5 day break

Clomid: 30mg/day 6 weeks
Torem:60mg/ day 6 weeks
Aromasin: 6.25mg EOD (Watch for low estrogen sides, and if you get them back off for a week, and then try to space it out more)

I'm an advocate of the aromasin during a restart as it will also encourage the pituitary to prodcue more test through the feedback loop. Low E2 means the body needs more test to aromatise into E2. The HCG is going to mimic LH and stimulate the leydig cells into overdrive. It will suppress the pituitary, but that's really only for 13 days, which isn't going to kill you. The 5 day break will allow the HCG to clear and allow you to "crash" again and then it's time to hit the pituitary with the SERM's. Some will tell you to run insane doses of clomid, but I tried a restart under the supervision of my doctor and he assured me that even 30mg''s is a large dose for men. I have to agree, anything over 30mg's and I get very bad sides. Blurred vision and tracers, patterns on the sidewalk at night, like I'm tripping on mushrooms. Makes me mad as an ant and I'm just a moody bitch. It's really like PMS for men. 30mg is just as effective as 100mg, which is a monster dose, and there is no benefit to taking anything over 30mg. Torem on the other hand is mild. You can take up to 120mg and feel just fine. Although I do not know if there is a benefit to taking 120mg over 60mg.

That's a pretty typical and effective restart. If that doesn't do the trick over an 8 week period then I don't think anything will. I 100% agree with Megatron, if it doesn't work don't put up with the low testosterone. It to is a silent killer. You are doing yourself an injustice and you deserve better. Why not live this life at the optimal level? For a male, you are not living at the optimal level in a testosterone range of less than 500. You are young and deserve to be at the high end of normal for a 25 year old. I would say you are wasting your 20's if you go through them at a test level of a 50 year old. I encourage you to think long and hard about that decision.

 

[Megatron28]

If you can't get to the endo for 2 months then fair enough, try the restart. If you are going to do it then do it right. If it were me, and this contradicts what I said above as I am now saying add the HCG, I would do the following protocol:

HCG: 500iu/Day for 10 days. Some say blast 2000 EOD, but I don't feel that is necessary,
Aromasin: 6.25mg/day for 10 days

5 day break

Clomid: 30mg/day 6 weeks
Torem:60mg/ day 6 weeks
Aromasin: 6.25mg EOD (Watch for low estrogen sides, and if you get them back off for a week, and then try to space it out more)

I'm an advocate of the aromasin during a restart as it will also encourage the pituitary to prodcue more test through the feedback loop. Low E2 means the body needs more test to aromatise into E2. The HCG is going to mimic LH and stimulate the leydig cells into overdrive. It will suppress the pituitary, but that's really only for 13 days, which isn't going to kill you. The 5 day break will allow the HCG to clear and allow you to "crash" again and then it's time to hit the pituitary with the SERM's. Some will tell you to run insane doses of clomid, but I tried a restart under the supervision of my doctor and he assured me that even 30mg''s is a large dose for men. I have to agree, anything over 30mg's and I get very bad sides. Blurred vision and tracers, patterns on the sidewalk at night, like I'm tripping on mushrooms. Makes me mad as an ant and I'm just a moody bitch. It's really like PMS for men. 30mg is just as effective as 100mg, which is a monster dose, and there is no benefit to taking anything over 30mg. Torem on the other hand is mild. You can take up to 120mg and feel just fine. Although I do not know if there is a benefit to taking 120mg over 60mg.

That's a pretty typical and effective restart. If that doesn't do the trick over an 8 week period then I don't think anything will. I 100% agree with Megatron, if it doesn't work don't put up with the low testosterone. It to is a silent killer. You are doing yourself an injustice and you deserve better. Why not live this life at the optimal level? For a male, you are not living at the optimal level in a testosterone range of less than 500. You are young and deserve to be at the high end of normal for a 25 year old. I would say you are wasting your 20's if you go through them at a test level of a 50 year old. I encourage you to think long and hard about that decision.

I think this restart protocol may work for someone who just finished a cycle and had a failed PCT. But I wouldn't recommend this protocol for someone who has been hypogonadal for many years.

 

[Xander24]

I think this restart protocol may work for someone who just finished a cycle and had a failed PCT. But I wouldn't recommend this protocol for someone who has been hypogonadal for many years.

Interesting, It is the protocol my doctor did for me. It did fail, and I am no into TRT. He's a good doc, and said this is the protocol he uses for 25-35 year old hypogonadal men. He has had success and even got a few patients up into the 800 range. However, who knows how many of those clients were on cycle previously and did not report that fact. Out of curiousity what protocol would you recommend for a restart for the OP? Thanks in advance.

 

[Megatron28]

Interesting, It is the protocol my doctor did for me. It did fail, and I am no into TRT. He's a good doc, and said this is the protocol he uses for 25-35 year old hypogonadal men. He has had success and even got a few patients up into the 800 range. However, who knows how many of those clients were on cycle previously and did not report that fact. Out of curiousity what protocol would you recommend for a restart for the OP? Thanks in advance.

I would start by trying to restore testicular function and reverse atrophy. I think this will likely take longer than 10 days of hCG. You could run 500iu of hCG twice weekly for as long as it takes -- probably several months. Once testicular size appears to have been restored and blood work results show satisfactory TT levels, you can cut over to running a SERM (clomid or nolva). The SERM will likely need to be run for several months as well.

I think you are looking at a lot longer than ~7 weeks to get the HPTA restarted after being hypogonadal for so long. Even then, the odds are probably stacked against the restart working but it is worth a try. All this assumes Secondary Hypogonadism of course.

 

[rational16]

Love. The support In this forum, I'm currently on a diet with 3j and I'm going to see if we can come up with some sort of restart plan incorporating all your guys info. Again thanks for the feedback it's much appreciated