high RBC high blood pressure woes

[gruntwerk]

You should definetly stay on your doc about the lisinopril, that's spooky high. I know when I'm up there I feel like crap completely.

Have you been donating E56D all along since starting TRT or are you the kind who just donates as needed based on labs? Also did you check your hemo and HCT prior to starting TRT?

Also wanted to add, if you can find a source or know a friend who has clonidine it works very well for an as needed thing. WIth a BP that high you can take .2mg about an hour prior to donating and you should be full normal. It works by blocking out epinephrine from certain cardiac receptors, so basically blocking adrenaline from the heart. Because of it's mechanism it's pretty much the only BP med that will lower your BP and HR considerably within an hour or two.

 

[daleb]

thats interesting. i have apnea and thyroid hormone pooling. its getting better but takes a while. i think its part white coat. the other part im wondering if the trt is fixing my adrenals and now im pumping out too much adrenalin for whatever reason. so the clonidine would be really effective. i dont drink smoke do drugs. i work outside. family history of heart disease strokes and dimenshia (sp). i think for me its just gonna take years to figure it out, least now that im on test i probably wont die trying.

got approved for the lisinilpro. was reading in studies lab rats on it had lower rbcs n hct. not that it will manage those but every little bit will help me.

 

[gruntwerk]

thats interesting. i have apnea and thyroid hormone pooling. its getting better but takes a while. i think its part white coat. the other part im wondering if the trt is fixing my adrenals and now im pumping out too much adrenalin for whatever reason. so the clonidine would be really effective. i dont drink smoke do drugs. i work outside. family history of heart disease strokes and dimenshia (sp). i think for me its just gonna take years to figure it out, least now that im on test i probably wont die trying.

got approved for the lisinilpro. was reading in studies lab rats on it had lower rbcs n hct. not that it will manage those but every little bit will help me.

I noticed the spike initially too, in terms of HR and BP. After talking to halfwit a lot I realized with his convincing that it's part anxiety and mostly the adrenals balancing out like you're talking about.

My resting heart rate increased by 5-10 points on TRT, was steady 55 prior now it's between 62-65 when I'm calm. But when adjusting to TRT I was getting 90-100 a lot.

Clonidine is not exactly he best medicine for long term BP management as you do build a tolerance too it and eventually it will stop lowering your BP as much but will still keep the sedating effects and heart rate lowering properties, so basically you can end up being super drowsy using it as complete BP measure, it's also hard to obtain a truly steady BP... Moves around as the dose where's off of course (6 hours for me).

Now with that said it's probably once of the best meds for people who get random BP spikes or need to control BP more in certain situations, I take lisinopril as my primary but I'm also scripted two .3 clinics one daily to use as needed, because I'm an anxious individual my BP tends to spike randomly on some days then come down lower some others.

I'm glad you got the lisinopril, what dose did they give you? Wouldn't hurt to try and get some clonidine still if you can just to take before donations to ensure you won't get kicked back, it's also great to have one them days when you just feel super wound up and want to rip someone's head off, makes you real calm and it's not narcotic.

I have the same family history as you so I get your worries for sure, I probably worry more than anyone on here when it comes to my heart. That's one huge reason to keep BP in check though.

You didn't mention, have you been donating all along or only hit and miss?

I've been on the lisinopril for a long time but I've also read the same thing about how it actually lowers HCT a little bit.

 

[daleb]

thanks for the info and the time to write out a well thought out reply.

i donated nov 30, 2015 for the first time, then april 16th, and yesterday. my hct n rbc have been highish, but last Saturday n mondays readings were a semi-dramatic jump. i was dehydrated during the tests. last night my hydration was better. hct was 51.

the clonidine i can get through a reliable rx pharmacy online its very affordable.

the lisinopril is 10mg 1x daily but i think my doc will up it if i ask.

i do have some symptoms of cushings, stretch marks everywhere in large quantities, been getting them since i was freshman in high school. upper back fat and the lump at the base of my neck.

 

[daleb]

Heres my history on HCT

Jun 25, 2016
54% 40.0-54.0 %
Mar 04, 2016
49.4% 40.0-54.0 %
Jan 15, 2016
45.6% 40.0-54.0 %
Mar 26, 2015
49.2% 40.0-54.0 %
Feb 03, 2011
49.9% 40.0-54.0 %

 

[gruntwerk]

thanks for the info and the time to write out a well thought out reply.

i donated nov 30, 2015 for the first time, then april 16th, and yesterday. my hct n rbc have been highish, but last Saturday n mondays readings were a semi-dramatic jump. i was dehydrated during the tests. last night my hydration was better. hct was 51.

the clonidine i can get through a reliable rx pharmacy online its very affordable.

the lisinopril is 10mg 1x daily but i think my doc will up it if i ask.

i do have some symptoms of cushings, stretch marks everywhere in large quantities, been getting them since i was freshman in high school. upper back fat and the lump at the base of my neck.

No problem, I suggest you grab the clonidine then if you trust the source and it's affordable, it will surely come in handy for you... just be cautious with it as it can be very very strong. Since you will be on lisinopril I would suggest you start with .1mg your first time and see how your BP responds, then you can bump to .2mg if needed.

10mg is also what I take of lisinopril and it works well for me but we all can respond differently, either way you need a consistent and safe BP medicine to use until you figure out what's causing you to be so high, lisinopril is fairly safe in most folks and it can also improve kidney function and lower HCT as you read already. That should be a good enough dose to at least get you out of the spooky numbers, I would expect to see you come down to something like 140-150/95-90 which is much better than before. I would suggest you pickup a BP cuff (they're cheap enough) and monitor yourself at home, find out what your BP is when you're truly relaxed and keep a log, after you build your log a bit you can show your doc your BP pattern and that may help them adjust your meds better.

So you have donated 3 times total? I'm surprised to see that you donated in April yet your HCT went from 49% prior to donating to 54% in June after donating. Did you switch your dose at all in that time? And also, in your HCT history is any of them values pre-TRT? Like maybe the 2011 one was before starting TRT?

 

[daleb]

i started trt at 50mg e 3.5days dec 4th 2015. around feb 2016 it was bumped up to 75mg e 3.5 days. march i added an ai, very small dosages, april i added hcg @ 250 iu e 3.5 days and bumped up my AI to .25 e 3.5days. supplements i take regularly, phosphatyl serine 125mg and b complex 100mg before sleep. for vit d i try to get about an hour of sun without my shirt on at work. thats about it.

yes only 3 lifetime donations. in 2 weeks ill try platelets then run a cbc a few days after. gonna get my acth tested and run a 4x saliva cortisol test.

the clonidine is 100mcg tabs, i will start by splitting one to 50mcg to test it, then titrate up if needed.

whats ur dosing schedule? take before sleep?

 

[daleb]

i have my own cuff, and tried monitering it. but the problem is it verys too much between clinics/hospitals i find it unusable for comparisons sake.

 

[Milton]

Always good to stick to the names you know.

 

[gruntwerk]

100 mcg is 0.1mg, mind you that's point one not 1mg, you probably already seen that but just being sure. Likely you would not see much from .05mg or 50mcg but it never hurts to be cautious. The standard for hypertensive emergency is .1mg every hour but with your BP numbers I cannot see .1mg bottoming you out at all, even with 10mg lisinopril. But still try half just to see, take your BP prior with your cuff then take it an hour after dosing.

Your cuff will vary from the docs, it's going to happen for sure and that's why I'm not someone who's super anal over office BP visits. I personally think a lot of that is white coat syndrome and just worrying in general, I'm always spooked when going to the docs because I'm a worrier by nature. Also equipment will always vary from one device to another, and manual BPs after often a little different then machines. I've had the nurse take my BP manually and it comes out at 140/90 then the doc does it and it's 120/70 so it always varies.

However establishing a pattern with your own cuff will give you an accurate monitoring ability. You will only see the small variation in your machine, rest of the changes will be your own BP fluctuations. Don't worry about what yours is saying vs. the doc for now, get your baseline before your lisinopril fully takes effect and then use your same cuff before and after the clonidine dosing. This will give you an accurate reading of how the meds are working for you which is needed for your own health, the whole goal is to drop BP for your own safety so your cuff will do just fine. I'm sure once you see normal BPs at home you will still be within reason at the Red Cross too, or like I said before dose the clonidine prior.

Normal dosing for the clonidine is every 12 hours so pretty much one morning one before bed. I find personally that I like to split my dose into 4, so I break my .3mg in half an take half early morning and early afternoon, then my evening dose I take half around dinner time then the other half prior to bed.... I find the half life doesn't give me a full 12 hours. Don't depend on it for long term management though, it's best to get your lisinopril adjusted to where it keeps you normal. It's great for awhile but you will build a tolerance and if you stop it abruptly your HR and BP spike like fucking crazy... It's no joke the withdrawals are intense and can be fatal in the right setting so please try not to depend on it daily without a script, just incase a package gets snagged out the mail or something ya know. Granted .1mg twice daily is low, it can still be very uncomfortable to stop it cold turkey.

So according to your lab history on HCT it was actually higher prior to starting TRT then dropped down some after a bit, then slowly increased and stayed at 49 then randomly spiked? The HCT from April should include the dose adjustment in March so i wonder why you got the random jump when you were only slowly crawling up.

I lucked out with HCT and RBC so far, low T ended up giving me anemia so my hemoglobin was only 12 when I started and HCT was 42 with iron supplements, without iron it was 39 so I had grow room. So far 100mg has brought me to 15.1 hemo and a 48 ish HCT. Hopefully giving that I am able to maintain with E56D donations as the nearest blood center that does platelets is over an hour away, add the time in for the donation I'm looking over 4 hours. Trying to get my doctor on board or switch to IMT so I can get a therapeutic phlebotomy ordered if needed, that's the easiest way to go if you're losing control.

The acth test may be a good idea, I should do one myself really.

 

[daleb]

i was reading that for cushings they need acth draw between 7am - 9am and a cortisol sliva swab between 11pm and 12pm. which is interesting cause i catch my second or third wind around 11pm.

well noted about the clonidine dosing and potential withdrawls and hazards. ill prob take 50mcg in the morning and goto work and see what happens. if that goes good i'll do just 50mcg before bed the next day.

i will use the cuff i have and log my readings.

 

[gruntwerk]

i was reading that for cushings they need acth draw between 7am - 9am and a cortisol sliva swab between 11pm and 12pm. which is interesting cause i catch my second or third wind around 11pm.

well noted about the clonidine dosing and potential withdrawls and hazards. ill prob take 50mcg in the morning and goto work and see what happens. if that goes good i'll do just 50mcg before bed the next day.

i will use the cuff i have and log my readings.

Didn't know that about the acth, thanks.

Forgot to add earlier... you made no mention of fish oil, you deffinetly need to add omega 3's if you have BP issues and history of family heart disease. I've noticed a big difference in 6 months with taking fish oil in terms of general wellness, also seen a notable drop in BP and triglycerides.

 

[daleb]

ive used fish oil in the past. guess i never noticed anything with it. i can go back on it.

 

[gruntwerk]

It's cheap and effective, just use s quality brand like nature spring or whatever the yellow bottle is at Walmart.

You may not notice the benefits in BP from it, I've heard other folks say they didn't either and some others have like myself. Either way, IMO it's cheap enough to always run and regardless of effects on BP it still helps protect your cardiovascular system. You want a gram or 1,000mg daily of combined EPA and DHA, I use the stronger version so I don't have to take a ton of pills just one a day.

 

[Tall Guy]

My blood gets thick and my blood pressure tends to be on the high side. I'm on 200 cup every 7 days. I bleed myself once every couple of months. Ordered 16 gauge needles off internet

 

[daleb]

Little bit of an update. I went off of the hCG. My HCT is over 50 again. About 2 weeks till I can donate again. Dr upped my dosage to 400mg/2wees test cyp, so i split it to 100mg every 3.5 days. Feel a little bit better.

So I broke out my old pulse/oximiter and wore it in conjunction with my cpap machine and well, the results were scary...

View attachment 564977

Looks like I need to go on oxygen while I sleep, so working that angle right now. I should have caught it earlier.

heres a higher resolution pic if u guys want. http://imgur.com/a/jcEJT

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

What's your total and free T level? At 200mg's a week, split, and with hCG, you might be running 1500 ng/dl or higher.

You might be able to lower your dosage and not have to go through all of this. I've been on TRT for 3 years and never had to take an AI, no blood donations, etc. It's a pretty maintenance free program and my blood work come back excellent.

This is just my opinion, TRT shouldn't be so hard where you have to run to a blood bank every 90 days and then you're freaking out between donations. Maybe you can drop your does to 50mg's every 3.5 days instead of 100mg's and it can help.

Edit: I saw it was 616 in a prior post, but I do see your glucose is a bit high, your thyroid is around 2 and your vit D is low. How's your weight and diet?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but before TRT, most people weren't running down to give donations every 3 months to keep HCT in check, so, TRT should be a replacement so I would imagine that you shouldn't have to do it when you're bringing yourself to natural levels. If you have to, there might be something else wrong and it need to be fixed, not with just frequent donations. That brings other problems down the line, like low ferritin levels and iron issues.

 

[daleb]

I agree with you. My last total test was 368 ng/dL.

Thanks for looking at my past posts by the way.

 

[daleb]

So I called acute care and the doc working today is pretty good, id rate him a solid B so i went in. I went in with my cpap and pulse ox data and met with him. He agreeed it was pretty serious and called in a pulmonary specialist and their respiratory tech from home, we all went over the data and I got a treatment plan. They also upped my bp meds. im now on 20mg lisinipro and 25 mg hydrocholorthizaide. They think my O2-desat is occuring during REM sleep, and its because i use a nasal pillow my mouth is opening. So they gave me a different mask, and want me to up the pressure on my CPAP and call the puliminary specialist(she gave me her cell) tomorrow morning. If that dont work I may need a Bi-pap. They dont think I should go on Oxygen until they figure out what is causing the o2 desat. The pulmonary specialist said that during REM sleep the upper ribcage muscles that contract and expand the ribcage do not work and sometimes it takes a lot of pressure to keep a person breathing normally.

 

[CobraMustangSVT]

When I started TRT, I had blood pressure issues and HCT, etc. Doc just wanted to take the easy way out and give me BP meds and told me to donate blood. I was doing that and then ran into other issues. Started feeling tired. Now he wants me on iron pills. That started giving me problems with digestion......and on and on and on....

I got fed up and demanded that he find the problem. I didn't have any problems before TRT, now all of a sudden, I have high BP and high HCT? After his lazy self ran a whole bunch of tests, they found that I developed sleep apnea. I was put on a APAP and next thing you know, blood pressure was going down, HCT started going down, no more blood donations, etc. and now I just take my test and that 's it.