How to LOWER testosterone levels (Yes, you read that right.)

[Mountain-Man]

Your levels look fine to me brother with in range a long time ago I was told taking birthcontol pills worked not sure there if there is any logic to it. It took me at 36 years old 1 year to get a script I had all the symptoms but was within normal range 600 but the doc broke down because my symptoms were real ESP no sex drive and depress also sleepy all the time insurance is what took so long they wanted test after test and bloods my god the blood work was harsh

 

[halfwit]

Your point? I'm confused exactly how you're situation makes my situation any less bad? Just because I could be worse off I should be happy?

I'm trying to be optimal. This has nothing to do with the fact that you're worse off.

You want optimization, not medical intervention (your words). I stand by your option of contacting the appropriate party for such. You pay, get whatever you want, and then find out if that's what you truly want.

It's simple, although I don't recommend it at all. IF you really are suffering from androgen deficiency, then spend the time to rule out every possible situation. TRT is NOT for getting swole or feeling like superman. It's because you NEED it due to medical necessity. What it sounds like you want is to cruise.

 

[serber12345]

Take a look at the chart. 470ng/dl really is close to average. I don't know your exact age of course.

And how is your diet? Did you get a good night's sleep before the blood work was drawn? What time was your blood work drawn at? Do you have sleep apnea? Are you Hypothyroid?

I have no sleep issues besides insomnia every now and then which has really died down. My thyroid is slightly below average, much like my test, but yeah. And I get you're saying 470 is close to average, but it's low average if anything. That's my point. I don't necessarily feel terrible or down ALL the time, just a general malaise, and mild mild depression which seeps into all other aspects of my life. I don't feel bad all the time, I'm very functional, my point is just I feel like I could feel much much better.

 

[serber12345]

You want optimization, not medical intervention (your words). I stand by your option of contacting the appropriate party for such. You pay, get whatever you want, and then find out if that's what you truly want.

It's simple, although I don't recommend it at all. IF you really are suffering from androgen deficiency, then spend the time to rule out every possible situation. TRT is NOT for getting swole or feeling like superman. It's because you NEED it due to medical necessity. What it sounds like you want is to cruise.

Lol look I know all this. Not even trying to be rude. I understand it's not about getting super swole, in fact I really don't care about that at all. I just want to feel good again. Like I did as a teenager. In fact I could be a 120 lb weakling but if I felt good and confident and super good again like I did when I was younger I would be satisfied. Look, maybe I should just go down the illegal route, but if so, I could really use someone to PM me about this if they have the time. I need advice to do this right, and also how/ where to get this stuff since all my sources are long gone.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Megatron28]

I have no sleep issues besides insomnia every now and then which has really died down. My thyroid is slightly below average, much like my test, but yeah. And I get you're saying 470 is close to average, but it's low average if anything. That's my point. I don't necessarily feel terrible or down ALL the time, just a general malaise, and mild mild depression which seeps into all other aspects of my life. I don't feel bad all the time, I'm very functional, my point is just I feel like I could feel much much better.

Being on the low side of average TT does not cause depression. Increasing your TT will not alleviate depression. You need a psychologist to help you work through your mental illness. It really works! Seek help.

 

[halfwit]

Lol look I know all this. Not even trying to be rude. I understand it's not about getting super swole, in fact I really don't care about that at all. I just want to feel good again. Like I did as a teenager. In fact I could be a 120 lb weakling but if I felt good and confident and super good again like I did when I was younger I would be satisfied. Look, maybe I should just go down the illegal route, but if so, I could really use someone to PM me about this if they have the time. I need advice to do this right, and also how/ where to get this stuff since all my sources are long gone.

Thanks for any help.

What were your testosterone levels as a teen? I'm not going to bullshit you, when I first started TRT (my natural production is barely above 100ng/dL) I was given a very underwhelming dose of 100mg/wk. This put me at about 450ng/dL, and I still felt like shit. It wasn't until my dose increased to the current 250mg/wk that I began to feel like my old self again. I had anxiety, atrophy, obesity, diabetes, hypertension, depression, zero sex drive, zero motivation to do anything, restless leg syndrome, the beginnings of congestive heart failure, subclinical hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue, and plenty of mental problems that the concoction courtesy of the big pharmaceutical companies drugs provided.

I felt (and feel) normal. Yes, I do have a ravenous sexual appetite that rivals young teen boys, but that's normal for me. I have fixed every single one of those issues with the exception of diabetes (pancreas just gave me the middle finger after a decade of low T) by treating my condition. This is why I DO empathize with folks that are on the lower end of "normal", but you have to also understand that it was a TREMENDOUS battle to get treatment.

Feeling a little depressed and a general sense of malaise *might*be treatable with increasing your testosterone, but wouldn't you want to rule out everything else first? If you haven't had a sleep study, you can't rule that out. Have you had prolactin checked? Vitamin D? Varicoceles?

There are literally countless causes (many idiopathic in nature) as to why you feel like you do. Why sentence yourself to a life on the needle if you don't absolutely need it? TRT is for life, not just for temporary relief, or until you get tired of the constant upkeep. It becomes a necessity in order to live, as you WILL invariably die without testosterone. My life expectancy at my previous test levels was maybe 20 more years, and I was in my early 30's when finally diagnosed. A slow, and pathetic death if you ask me. So why jump so quickly into that boat if it's not 100% needed?

I'm sorry, there simply aren't any methods of temporarily lowering your production temporarily that won't cause you damage to your body. You can try exhausting yourself, but many doctors want multiple tests indicating there's an issue - which may not work every time.

I do wish you the best of luck, and I caution you on seeking underground sources in such an open fashion, it's begging to be scammed.

This was an honest and thought requiring post, I hope you take my words to heart.

My .02c

 

[Machine15]

What about giving a course of clomid a try to see if you can push those levels higher ?

 

[Gainjin260]

What about giving a course of clomid a try to see if you can push those levels higher ?

That'd probably work. However I was in the 270's and put on Clomid for 2.5 years. It raised my test to 400-500 but the symptoms of low T got WORSE. No sex drive, no motivation, hard to lose fat, etc. I read on here somewhere that raising test through ancillaries does not have the same positive effects that test itself has. That's why I stopped Clomid 5 weeks ago and started TRT. It's been a life changer. My whole outlook on life is different.

So whether you've got 100 or 500, if you have the symptoms of low T and they ARE FROM low T and not something else I would urge you to seek out hormone therapy. Having a 400 T score doesn't preclude you from having any and all symptoms of low T.

 

[Machine15]

interesting. what dosage of clomid were you on ? we all respond differently, i had a friend who's test was 370 and did clomid for 2 months and got it in the 600's
then got bloodwork a month after and it was in the mid 500's and it stayed there. i do agree that trt is of course the go to option for someone not able to recover however.

 

[Gainjin260]

interesting. what dosage of clomid were you on ? we all respond differently, i had a friend who's test was 370 and did clomid for 2 months and got it in the 600's
then got bloodwork a month after and it was in the mid 500's and it stayed there. i do agree that trt is of course the go to option for someone not able to recover however.

25mg a day for two and a half years. Tried up to 50 for some time to see if that would induce sperm production (I have none).

Let's not hijack this thread. All that to say a number is a number. How you feel is important. I felt like absolute @SS at 400-500 on Clomid and I did something about it.

People may wish they had your test score, but if you feel as bad as they did at 100 why not do something about it?

 

[Graeme]

The chances are that serber12345 is suffering from depression, rather than low T. A lot of the symptoms are similar, and it sounds more like dysthymia, which is a persistant low-level mood disorder.

In which case, therapy, exercise and possibly antidepressants would be the best approach.

It would be worth checking free testosterone levels. If these are low, then he could be symptomatic despite having TT in the normal range. The cut-off point hasn't been established, but a calculated free testosterone level of below 6.5 ng/dL seems to be a good indicator. If serber12345 has an SHBG of over 60 nmol/L then he could be hypogonadal.

 

[ShadeTree]

I am by no means an expert on trt, matter of fact I'm quite new but I have tried to educate myself on it as much as possible and what I'm about to say is in no way a slight against any of the more experienced guys, some of yall have already helped me out some and I'm thankful for that.

With that said I'm gonna have to disagree with the ones saying he should be happy with levels at 470 just because others would be happy to have that level naturally. Did he come across as an ass? Definitely, but I just don't agree with that. I've seen several of you comment in other posts that the ranges the docs and labs use suck because it includes young healthy men and old sick men, plus I've seen several say and even had doctors tell me that one man might feel normal at 400 and the next guy might need 800 to feel normal. So to say he's average and should feel fine is kind of hypocritical.

When I was first diagnosed with hypogonadism my levels were at 327, within range, so I should have been fine, right? Six months later I was taken off T shots for 2.5 months to check my pituitary and my levels were a whopping 413 with my LH at the top of the range screaming at my balls to make T. I can assure you that was not normal for me, I didn't even feel human. They checked my levels about 3 weeks ago and it was a whopping 463 on T shots. This was at the end of a 2 week shot but again I can assure you I didn't feel normal and once again I didn't even feel human but the nurse told me that was perfect, that's right in the middle where we want you. I almost laughed at her. Now some of that could have been from high e2 and I'll never know because I'm dealing with jackass doctors that won't test my e2 levels, but that's a whole nother story.

I've seen several studies that tested T levels by age and for my age, 42, I should be around 600. According to these jackass doctors I'm dealing with I should be just fine with my level of 400-450. I can assure you I'm nowhere near fine. No libido whatsoever when I use to have one thru the roof, no will to do anything, severe brain fog, moody, depression etc etc. I believe I've fought semi low T for years because of most of the same symptoms I have now, they are just worse now and if I knew 10 years ago what I know now I would have at least explored the option of trt. But I probably would have been told what this guy is being told, you're within range so you're fine. If he's lying about his symptoms then that's on him.

One more thing I find hypocritical is that a lot of yall are pushing your levels way above the normal range into the 800-1000 range but then tell this guy he should be happy with a measly 470, I just find that wrong. Should he jump right into to trt without exploring all options of why he feels the way he does? Well, that's up to him but to tell him right off the bat that he's fine and should be happy with those levels is just wrong in my opinion.

I'm not advocating you try to tank your T levels but from what I've read sleep deprivation and stress are the two easiest ways to to do that. With that said I also read an article just the other day of a guy who's level was at 400 and he felt like death. He had been working on a work project for months that caused him sleep deprivation and lots of stress but with diet, exercise and a few supplements he doubled his T in 3 months. And it wasn't your typical low fat diet either. I think I read it on art of manliness website. Whether the guy is full of it or not I don't know but I thought it was an interesting read at least.

 

[Megatron28]

I am by no means an expert on trt, matter of fact I'm quite new but I have tried to educate myself on it as much as possible and what I'm about to say is in no way a slight against any of the more experienced guys, some of yall have already helped me out some and I'm thankful for that.

With that said I'm gonna have to disagree with the ones saying he should be happy with levels at 470 just because others would be happy to have that level naturally. Did he come across as an ass? Definitely, but I just don't agree with that. I've seen several of you comment in other posts that the ranges the docs and labs use suck because it includes young healthy men and old sick men, plus I've seen several say and even had doctors tell me that one man might feel normal at 400 and the next guy might need 800 to feel normal. So to say he's average and should feel fine is kind of hypocritical.

When I was first diagnosed with hypogonadism my levels were at 327, within range, so I should have been fine, right? Six months later I was taken off T shots for 2.5 months to check my pituitary and my levels were a whopping 413 with my LH at the top of the range screaming at my balls to make T. I can assure you that was not normal for me, I didn't even feel human. They checked my levels about 3 weeks ago and it was a whopping 463 on T shots. This was at the end of a 2 week shot but again I can assure you I didn't feel normal and once again I didn't even feel human but the nurse told me that was perfect, that's right in the middle where we want you. I almost laughed at her. Now some of that could have been from high e2 and I'll never know because I'm dealing with jackass doctors that won't test my e2 levels, but that's a whole nother story.

I've seen several studies that tested T levels by age and for my age, 42, I should be around 600. According to these jackass doctors I'm dealing with I should be just fine with my level of 400-450. I can assure you I'm nowhere near fine. No libido whatsoever when I use to have one thru the roof, no will to do anything, severe brain fog, moody, depression etc etc. I believe I've fought semi low T for years because of most of the same symptoms I have now, they are just worse now and if I knew 10 years ago what I know now I would have at least explored the option of trt. But I probably would have been told what this guy is being told, you're within range so you're fine. If he's lying about his symptoms then that's on him.

One more thing I find hypocritical is that a lot of yall are pushing your levels way above the normal range into the 800-1000 range but then tell this guy he should be happy with a measly 470, I just find that wrong. Should he jump right into to trt without exploring all options of why he feels the way he does? Well, that's up to him but to tell him right off the bat that he's fine and should be happy with those levels is just wrong in my opinion.

I'm not advocating you try to tank your T levels but from what I've read sleep deprivation and stress are the two easiest ways to to do that. With that said I also read an article just the other day of a guy who's level was at 400 and he felt like death. He had been working on a work project for months that caused him sleep deprivation and lots of stress but with diet, exercise and a few supplements he doubled his T in 3 months. And it wasn't your typical low fat diet either. I think I read it on art of manliness website. Whether the guy is full of it or not I don't know but I thought it was an interesting read at least.

See the chart in Post #19.

And note that when one has TT of 327ng/dl, Free T should be checked to determine if one has Borderline Hypogonadism which should be treated.

 

[ShadeTree]

See the chart in Post #19.

And note that when one has TT of 327ng/dl, Free T should be checked to determine if one has Borderline Hypogonadism which should be treated.

Maybe you missed the part where my levels were 463 a few weeks ago and I didn't even feel human. Also maybe you can help me with that graph because it goes against everything I've ever read. Is the middle line average? I've always read that once you hit 30 your T drops about 1% every year but it shows it going up til about 45 or so. Also according to that graph a level of 450 is average for an 80 year old, I don't think this guy is 80.

 

[Megatron28]

Maybe you missed the part where my levels were 463 a few weeks ago and I didn't even feel human. Also maybe you can help me with that graph because it goes against everything I've ever read. Is the middle line average? I've always read that once you hit 30 your T drops about 1% every year but it shows it going up til about 45 or so. Also according to that graph a level of 450 is average for an 80 year old, I don't think this guy is 80.

What is the average for a 20 year old according to the graph?

 

[ShadeTree]

What is the average for a 20 year old according to the graph?

That's what I'm saying, this graph goes against everything I've ever read.

 

[Roush]

I've seen several say and even had doctors tell me that one man might feel normal at 400 and the next guy might need 800 to feel normal. So to say he's average and should feel fine is kind of hypocritical.

what is normal ? how someone 'feels' is subjective , we all 'feel' different and one persons normal is another persons not normal, however, a blood test that looks at actual REAL numbers of how much testosterone is in ones blood is objective.
the blood test is a real observable objective truth that can be looked at and analyzed,, how you feel is not.

medical Doctors generally treat people based on objective realities, not subjective feelings (thats why the 'real' objective truth of having 470+ testosterone levels is not considered Low T) . If you want your 'subjective' feelings treated, go see a psychologist , they specialize in treating the subjective 'feelings'

 

[ShadeTree]

what is normal ? how someone 'feels' is subjective , we all 'feel' different and one persons normal is another persons not normal, however, a blood test that looks at actual REAL numbers of how much testosterone is in ones blood is objective.
the blood test is a real observable objective truth that can be looked at and analyzed,, how you feel is not.

medical Doctors generally treat people based on objective realities, not subjective feelings (thats why the 'real' objective truth of having 470+ testosterone levels is not considered Low T) . If you want your 'subjective' feelings treated, go see a psychologist , they specialize in treating the subjective 'feelings'

You just said the exact same thing I said. One persons normal at x level is not another person's normal at the same level. I dont care what is considered low t and what isnt by doctors because it's quite obvious the range they use is whacky at best. Theres lots of evidence to suggest what is called a normal in range level is bs. Why did you get on trt? Because you didn't feel normal? Same reason I'm on it but according to your logic I should be fine with my level of 463 and should just go see a shrink and get on drugs. Drop your levels to 470 and then tell me how you "feel" about it.

 

[Roush]

You just said the exact same thing I said. One persons normal at x level is not another person's normal at the same level. I dont care what is considered low t and what isnt by doctors because it's quite obvious the range they use is whacky at best. Theres lots of evidence to suggest what is called a normal in range level is bs. Why did you get on trt? Because you didn't feel normal? Same reason I'm on it but according to your logic I should be fine with my level of 463 and should just go see a shrink and get on drugs. Drop your levels to 470 and then tell me how you "feel" about it.

Now matter if you agree or how you feel about it or not , the fact is medical community at large and doctors in particular use things that are objective , like measurable factors, and numbers found in blood tests, to determine if someone needs treatment (not by how u say yiu feel or not).

Being feelings are subjective , I could 'choose' to feel great at test levels of 470 like you have .
In fact I felt great for 35 years of my life with test levels at 167 . I did not go in to get treated for low T because I had any symptoms , a blood test just happened to show I had low T and so I was treated based on an objective truth , ie the blood test , and not a subjective 'how I feel' (which could just be made up shit in ones head)

 

[ShadeTree]

Now matter if you agree or how you feel about it or not , the fact is medical community at large and doctors in particular use things that are objective , like measurable factors, and numbers found in blood tests, to determine if someone needs treatment (not by how u say yiu feel or not).

Being feelings are subjective , I could 'choose' to feel great at test levels of 470 like you have .
In fact I felt great for 35 years of my life with test levels at 167 . I did not go in to get treated for low T because I had any symptoms , a blood test just happened to show I had low T and so I was treated based on an objective truth , ie the blood test , and not a subjective 'how I feel' (which could just be made up shit in ones head)

I don't disagree that doctors have to be objective even tho most have no critical thinking skills at all, but to say someone with a level of 470 should be fine and it's all in there head just because you felt fine at 167 is just wrong. That's my whole point, what works for one most certainly might not work for another. And if your body doesn't operate correctly at that level you can choose to feel fine all you want but that doesn't make it so. And when one actually brings there t levels back up and they feel normal again and everything seems to work then there's a really good chance that low T is the issue no matter what their levels were, as is my case. But I guess since I started a new regimen last week and have felt a lot of improvement this week it's just a placebo effect. I just don't get why it's so hard to believe somebody could feel like shit at around 470. I'm living proof of it. You can say it's all in my head if you want but I couldn't really care less about that. Wow I thought this place was about helping people out with low t but I'm starting to see that unless you have pretty much zero t then you're not really considered low t and should go see a shrink and get on drugs.