I dont understand anymore

sleepstalker

I am banned!
I know what it means to hit one's macros eating a healthy diet and limit the bad stuff to moderation. But being someone who has diabetes/heart disease that runs in my family, it seems when I have been eating high glucose foods I go into a diabetic coma. I get drowsy, tired and cant through my day. So i decided to keep my carbs mostly preworkout and before bed. Majority of them before bed. But today I came home and ate a HUGE meal with two big white potatoes and NO hypoglycemia from a surge of insulin. Or hyperglycemia from the glucose. Also I spoke to many medical level people involved in the clinical field. They all agree that the high glucose/insulin state creates cellular damage overtime. Esp to nerve cells.

I dont know what to do anymore. I will still worry about hitting macros but I dont know how I should structure the carbs the fats and the protein. Carbs preworkout I considered for energy to kill weights, no question. Protein PWO to rebuild no question. Carbs after dinner for deep sleep. I might change that. I dont know. I would contact some of the people of this forum for their "services" but I honestly dont have the money now and I honestly feel like I know enough, I am just making one or two minor screwups.
 
Fiber rich carbs are the answer my friend. Red potatoes > yellow/white potatoes, brown rice > white rice, et cetera. This is coming from a type II diabetic, so I understand. :)
 
Fiber rich carbs are the answer my friend. Red potatoes > yellow/white potatoes, brown rice > white rice, et cetera. This is coming from a type II diabetic, so I understand. :)

First of all thanks for your reply. Yeah I am very big on fiber. After all my bio courses I realize the spike in insulin isn't great for overall health esp diabetes. Also fats, again cause I have crappy genetics. Monounsaturated majority of fats is great for insulin sensitivity with a balance of polyunsaturates but not too much cause it can screw with one's immune system. Also saturated fat isn't bad either. So I get that too, weather its from coconut oil which has MCT and is metabolized differently or raw milk or some eggs over easy. Saturated fat lowers Lp(a). Lots of fat soluble vitamins in egg yolks. However I limit not abandon saturated fat for a NUMBER of reasons. Regardless of what some threads and stickies say on bodybuilding forums. All fats preferred in their raw state. As for proteins I love Animal Flesh(No Cannibal) LOL I mean Beef,Chicken,Pork and a little fish every now and then. I am not big on fish or eggs or beans. Plus its hard to get quality meat cause its hella expensive. As for protein shakes. Blah. I am so sick of that shit not to say I dont have or use protein I do. I just rather get a meal in these days. Plus when I chew my food its like I am working. Working on getting shit done.
 
Chewing also produces a very important enzyme needed for the proper digestion of food. Sounds like you definitely know what you're doing! Gotta have those fats for another reason by the way: We use them to make our hormones. ;)
 
One thing about fiber is that TOO much of it will inhibit absorption of other macronutrients primarily protein and carbs I believe. Also, having history of diabetes in your family and being diabetic/pre-diabetic are two very different things. My sister, both grandmothers, and a few other relatives are/were diabetic so I know the problems and issues diabetics face. Like Halfwit said, fiber intake can help, just don't MEGADOSE on fiber though.

Your full stats along with training history, diet, TDEE (or BMR and activity factor), plus your goals would help individualize the recommendations for you but first and foremost I would recommend going to the doctor (if you haven't done so already) or privatemdlabs and get yourself a blood test. You can get a female hormone panel for under $60 and among other values you'll get glucose levels. Obviously you know to be fasted for that but if you're unaware of your status whether pre-diabetic or diabetic or completely healthy it can help shed some light on your situation. This advice is intended for a healthy individual. Im Assuming you're neither pre-diabetic nor diabetic and my advice is given as such. Also assuming you're natty and not on a cycle at the moment but the changes to that wouldn't be too major.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of nutrition so I'll gloss over some parts. Get your BMR and activity factor and multiply together to get TDEE. If cutting reduce calories by 10-20% and if bulking increase by 10-20%. You need a MINIMUM of 1g/lb BW of protein and .3-.4g/lb BW of dietary fat. These are MINIMUMS not absolute numbers. The remainder of your calories can come from more protein, more fat, carbs, or any combo of the 3. Your food choices should be mainly whole and minimally processed foods to ensure micronutrient sufficiency. The only foods to avoid really are artificial transfats and any foods you have an allergy to or intolerance. Nutrient timing won't affect fat loss or lbm gain directly but CAN do so INDIRECTLY through increased/decreased gym performance.

I occasionally get the same feelings as you where after a big carb meal feel extremely lethargic and drowsy even. I usually only get like this at lunchtime at work (around noon) and What I've found that helps me is to drink A LOT OF WATER, reduce carbs for this meal and increase protein/fat to account for the drop in calories. High fiber foods can also help and for me bc I love hot sauce, I've noticed the hotter the hot sauce the more awake I am after (probably due to my eyes and nose burning lol).

If I were you I'd run a little test to see if its carbs in general that are giving you this feeling or if its just certain foods you may be allergic to or have an intolerance for. If you have a blood sugar meter check your glucose levels throughout the day and alternate carb sources for the meals that give you the Most drowsiness and diabetic symptoms. See if anything changes or stays the same. It could be one particular source or a couple that cause this and you can keep your current diet and only change out those particular foods. Failing that you can time your carbs with bfast, pre-workout, and post-workout. Carbs pre-workout would need to be at least an hour or more before the workout to give you any noticeable boost and protein pre-workout can be just as beneficial to give a steady supply of protein throughout the workout if you don't eat for a while after working out. After working out you should have protein AND carbs. Protein promotes positive protein synthesis and muscle growth but the carbs are important too because they inhibit muscle breakdown after a workout. Protein doesn't prevent catabolism and carbs don't promote anabolism so they should both be taken post-workout for that reason.

Another option would be to try a keto or Intermittent fasting diets. Look them up if you don't know about them and I'd be happy to answer whatever questions I could. Keto is typically <50g carbs a day with occasional carb refeeds and intermittent fasting involves creating a 4-8hr eating window and fasting the remainder of the day. Both of these could also help your situation.

One final thing to consider about insulin and spiking insulin levels, is that worrying about the glycemic index IF YOU'RE NOT DIABETIC OR PRE-DIABETIC is not worth the effort. Protein and fat when eaten with high-GI carbs will lower the glycemic load of a meal so that even a high GI carb source will be digested slowly. Glycemic load > glycemic index for one food. Also protein is insulinogenic, sometimes more so than carbs. If you don't eat high GI carbs bc of insulin spike you might as well not eat protein since it can spike insulin more than some carbs!!
 
Was going to start a new thread b4 I read this one, hopefully not hi-jacking,same lines of what u guys are talking about. Just got some more blood work results back and my glucose is high 5.6mmol/L the report indicates risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Kinda freak out, can't think of what I eat that could be like that, but my dad has type 2 diabetes so there can be a reason. Also my cholesterol is high as well. I'm one week in a intermittent fast diet. Taking 500 calories less then maintenance due to wanting to c my abs. I'm eating pretty much what everyone else does, steak, talapia, chicken, ground beef, pork, eggs whites,protein shakes. My question is what can be causing my cholesterol and glucose levels to rise like this?except for the odd sauces here and there my diet is pretty clean.

Im also week one in a test e 600mg pw cycle.

Thanks for the input.
 
Damn Doc, that's a hell of a writeup!

Prowl, if I converted it correctly - that puts you at 100.89mg/dL of blood glucose. I've been told time and time again that anything under 120mg/dL isn't much to worry about as eating a complex carbohydrate meal before bed can cause this to pop up on a blood test, so while I'd watch the carb intake, I don't think you should hit the panic button just yet. ;)
 
Was going to start a new thread b4 I read this one, hopefully not hi-jacking,same lines of what u guys are talking about. Just got some more blood work results back and my glucose is high 5.6mmol/L the report indicates risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Kinda freak out, can't think of what I eat that could be like that, but my dad has type 2 diabetes so there can be a reason. Also my cholesterol is high as well. I'm one week in a intermittent fast diet. Taking 500 calories less then maintenance due to wanting to c my abs. I'm eating pretty much what everyone else does, steak, talapia, chicken, ground beef, pork, eggs whites,protein shakes. My question is what can be causing my cholesterol and glucose levels to rise like this?except for the odd sauces here and there my diet is pretty clean.

Im also week one in a test e 600mg pw cycle.

Thanks for the input.

Out of courtesy to the OP you should probably make your own thread bro to get more help. I'll say this, if my math was right, that comes out to 100mg/dl not exactly cause to freak out, especially if you weren't fasted for the test.
 
Halfwit, Doc, thanks for your replies bros, can always count on you 2 for some helpful info. Doc, I know,I should have started my own thread hope I didn't piss anyone off, I usually know better.
 
Halfwit, Doc, thanks for your replies bros, can always count on you 2 for some helpful info. Doc, I know,I should have started my own thread hope I didn't piss anyone off, I usually know better.

I wasn't trying to get on your case man, like I said its for the OP not me. I hope at least your mind has been put to ease now :)
 
One thing about fiber is that TOO much of it will inhibit absorption of other macronutrients primarily protein and carbs I believe. Also, having history of diabetes in your family and being diabetic/pre-diabetic are two very different things. My sister, both grandmothers, and a few other relatives are/were diabetic so I know the problems and issues diabetics face. Like Halfwit said, fiber intake can help, just don't MEGADOSE on fiber though.

Your full stats along with training history, diet, TDEE (or BMR and activity factor), plus your goals would help individualize the recommendations for you but first and foremost I would recommend going to the doctor (if you haven't done so already) or privatemdlabs and get yourself a blood test. You can get a female hormone panel for under $60 and among other values you'll get glucose levels. Obviously you know to be fasted for that but if you're unaware of your status whether pre-diabetic or diabetic or completely healthy it can help shed some light on your situation. This advice is intended for a healthy individual. Im Assuming you're neither pre-diabetic nor diabetic and my advice is given as such. Also assuming you're natty and not on a cycle at the moment but the changes to that wouldn't be too major.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp of nutrition so I'll gloss over some parts. Get your BMR and activity factor and multiply together to get TDEE. If cutting reduce calories by 10-20% and if bulking increase by 10-20%. You need a MINIMUM of 1g/lb BW of protein and .3-.4g/lb BW of dietary fat. These are MINIMUMS not absolute numbers. The remainder of your calories can come from more protein, more fat, carbs, or any combo of the 3. Your food choices should be mainly whole and minimally processed foods to ensure micronutrient sufficiency. The only foods to avoid really are artificial transfats and any foods you have an allergy to or intolerance. Nutrient timing won't affect fat loss or lbm gain directly but CAN do so INDIRECTLY through increased/decreased gym performance.

I occasionally get the same feelings as you where after a big carb meal feel extremely lethargic and drowsy even. I usually only get like this at lunchtime at work (around noon) and What I've found that helps me is to drink A LOT OF WATER, reduce carbs for this meal and increase protein/fat to account for the drop in calories. High fiber foods can also help and for me bc I love hot sauce, I've noticed the hotter the hot sauce the more awake I am after (probably due to my eyes and nose burning lol).

If I were you I'd run a little test to see if its carbs in general that are giving you this feeling or if its just certain foods you may be allergic to or have an intolerance for. If you have a blood sugar meter check your glucose levels throughout the day and alternate carb sources for the meals that give you the Most drowsiness and diabetic symptoms. See if anything changes or stays the same. It could be one particular source or a couple that cause this and you can keep your current diet and only change out those particular foods. Failing that you can time your carbs with bfast, pre-workout, and post-workout. Carbs pre-workout would need to be at least an hour or more before the workout to give you any noticeable boost and protein pre-workout can be just as beneficial to give a steady supply of protein throughout the workout if you don't eat for a while after working out. After working out you should have protein AND carbs. Protein promotes positive protein synthesis and muscle growth but the carbs are important too because they inhibit muscle breakdown after a workout. Protein doesn't prevent catabolism and carbs don't promote anabolism so they should both be taken post-workout for that reason.

Another option would be to try a keto or Intermittent fasting diets. Look them up if you don't know about them and I'd be happy to answer whatever questions I could. Keto is typically <50g carbs a day with occasional carb refeeds and intermittent fasting involves creating a 4-8hr eating window and fasting the remainder of the day. Both of these could also help your situation.

One final thing to consider about insulin and spiking insulin levels, is that worrying about the glycemic index IF YOU'RE NOT DIABETIC OR PRE-DIABETIC is not worth the effort. Protein and fat when eaten with high-GI carbs will lower the glycemic load of a meal so that even a high GI carb source will be digested slowly. Glycemic load > glycemic index for one food. Also protein is insulinogenic, sometimes more so than carbs. If you don't eat high GI carbs bc of insulin spike you might as well not eat protein since it can spike insulin more than some carbs!!

Yep that is true too much of anything isnt a good idea. I think I heard Layne say though that for most people, in regards to fiber intake its hard to od. Unless they are using like fiber supps.

Current info

Age 27
5'11''
BW 170-172 last time I checked maybe a little heavier
BF 17-20% -Many reasons. Trying to be a consistent person.
Its been a while since I had a panel blood test. Btw when you ask your physician for one, he asks HELLA questions. Mine mostly for insurance reasons and the type of labs who do tests xyz. I have to find out how bodybuilders get that done. Anyway...moving on


1347=BMR
2051=TEF
1617=TO LOSE FAT


172 PRO
68 FAT
187 CHO

Currently Natty. For how long idk. At least another year.

I dont know about carbs and protein pwo. Protein def. But carbs would significantly limit my intake of animal flesh. They fill me up too fast. And insulin spike isnt necessary. After speaking with some people. I generally am a big fan of milk pwo. Milk has casein and whey proteins with lucine, bcaas, carbs, fats, minerals, A bunch of crap. There was a study showing whole milk being the superior pwo drink in regards to protein synthesis. Makes sense to me. So milk then some time later I have my biggest meal of the day with alot of animal flesh. Does matter when but I do it for appetite purposes. Protein synthesis is elevated for like 24hours with weight training.

I tried all those diets dude. Didnt help much. Esp IF people said the energy would kick in, it never did. I didn't care for it much.

Yup glycemic loads vs glycemic index,
glycemic load is the winner.

I am not prediabetic or diabetic but it does run throughout my family. Also I am feeling ALOT of the symptoms from time to time and as far as the human body is concerned, all of the doctors I have been around recommending doing everything possible to maintain good insulin sensitivity. Runs ALOT of cellular processes. Not to mention glucose mediated insulin action on the androgen receptor.
 
Don"t forget your oatmeal !! Nice , slow carbs..... ~Bo

Yeah I am not crazy about oatmeal but its great for health. Esp cause it has soluble fiber which makes a gel and offers a slow distribution of glucose to the cells.

Found this recently



Atherosclerosis and Lipoproteins

Consumption of Whole Grain and Legume Powder Reduces Insulin Demand, Lipid Peroxidation, and Plasma Homocysteine Concentrations in Patients With Coronary Artery Disease
Randomized Controlled Clinical Trial

Our objective was to evaluate whether isocaloric replacement of refined rice with whole grains and other plant products as a form of powder reduces coronary artery disease (CAD) risk factors, such as insulin demand and lipid peroxidation in CAD patients. Seventy-six male patients with CAD were randomly assigned to either a group ingesting a whole-grain meal daily or a control group for 16 weeks. In the whole-grain group, serum concentrations of glucose and insulin decreased by 24% and 14%, respectively, without altering body weight and energy intake, whereas daily intakes of fiber and vitamin E increased by 25% and 41%, respectively. Consumption of whole grains and legume powder in CAD patients without diabetes decreased fasting levels of glucose and insulin. The areas under the curve for insulin and glucose during the oral glucose tolerance test were also decreased. CAD patients with diabetes in the whole-grain group also showed reductions in fasting glucose and in the area under the curve for glucose. In the whole-grain group, plasma malondialdehyde and homocysteine and urinary 8-epi-prostaglandin F2***945; concentrations decreased by ***8776;28%. Also, lipid-corrected concentrations of ***945;-carotene, retinol, tocopherols, and lycopene increased by 11% to 40%, and the percentage composition of n-6 fatty acids of serum phospholipid increased by 14% in the whole-grain group. The replacement of refined rice with whole grain and legume powder as a source of carbohydrate in a meal showed significant beneficial effects on glucose, insulin, and homocysteine concentrations and lipid peroxidation in CAD patients. These effects are likely to substantially reduce the risk factors for CAD and diabetes.
 
Halfwit, Doc, thanks for your replies bros, can always count on you 2 for some helpful info. Doc, I know,I should have started my own thread hope I didn't piss anyone off, I usually know better.

Its cool dude. You can add to this thread. I dont mind. As long as we are all getting something out of it. We're all in this together. We're all gonna fuking make it.
 
Yep that is true too much of anything isnt a good idea. I think I heard Layne say though that for most people, in regards to fiber intake its hard to od. Unless they are using like fiber supps.

Current info

Age 27
5'11''
BW 170-172 last time I checked maybe a little heavier
BF 17-20% -Many reasons. Trying to be a consistent person.
Its been a while since I had a panel blood test. Btw when you ask your physician for one, he asks HELLA questions. Mine mostly for insurance reasons and the type of labs who do tests xyz. I have to find out how bodybuilders get that done. Anyway...moving on


1347=BMR
2051=TEF
1617=TO LOSE FAT


172 PRO
68 FAT
187 CHO

Currently Natty. For how long idk. At least another year.

I dont know about carbs and protein pwo. Protein def. But carbs would significantly limit my intake of animal flesh. They fill me up too fast. And insulin spike isnt necessary. After speaking with some people. I generally am a big fan of milk pwo. Milk has casein and whey proteins with lucine, bcaas, carbs, fats, minerals, A bunch of crap. There was a study showing whole milk being the superior pwo drink in regards to protein synthesis. Makes sense to me. So milk then some time later I have my biggest meal of the day with alot of animal flesh. Does matter when but I do it for appetite purposes. Protein synthesis is elevated for like 24hours with weight training.

I tried all those diets dude. Didnt help much. Esp IF people said the energy would kick in, it never did. I didn't care for it much.

Yup glycemic loads vs glycemic index,
glycemic load is the winner.

I am not prediabetic or diabetic but it does run throughout my family. Also I am feeling ALOT of the symptoms from time to time and as far as the human body is concerned, all of the doctors I have been around recommending doing everything possible to maintain good insulin sensitivity. Runs ALOT of cellular processes. Not to mention glucose mediated insulin action on the androgen receptor.

I'm going to comment on your points as I see them, not necessarily in the order of importance lol

1) it is hard to overdo fiber without supplements but its happened. I believe I've seen the number as high as 80g so if you're less than that you should be fine.

2) your lbm is somewhat low but if your Bf % is accurate that's higher than you should be to start a good bulk so I agree you should cut first.

3) for lab work, go to privatemdlabs online, select female specific tests and get the "female hormone panel" or "hormone panel for females". It is $59.99 (you can find online coupons and save more) and has all the tests you'd want to know like testosterone, estradiol, LH, FSH, glucose, metabolic profile, along with CBC/platelets. When you go to check out MAKE SURE you choose the MALE REFERENCE RANGES so they don't give you those of a female. Pretty inexpensive and very worthwhile test if you ask me.

4) the first POSSIBLE mistake I caught is your BMR. When I plug you stats I'm I get ~1850cals as your BMR. Recheck the numbers you plugged in since even if i enter female its still ~1600 cals. A good amount more than the 1350cals you listed.

5) the wrong BMR screwed up the rest of your calculations so ASSUMING you're moderately active/work out frequently/and get around and do some physical activities I'll pick a 1.4 activity factor (you can adjust later if you don't loose weight) so:
TDEE = 1850cals x 1.4 =~2600cals/day as MAINTENANCE

6) I'll pick a medium caloric deficit for you of 15% so your new cutting energy intake should be:
2600 x .85 = ~2200cals/day. That's 600 calories per day difference from the numbers you listed!! That difference is 23% of your entire diet and will mean the difference between starvation mode later on and significant loss of lbm and strength. I'd suggest you recheck your numbers or use mine.

7) the macros you listed don't add up to the cutting calories you listed. They're much closer to my numbers. You need to work in how to figure out macros. I'm guessing you might have thought fat is 4cal/g??? Carbs and protein are 4cals/g, fat is 9cals/g, fiber is around 2-3cals/g, and alcohol is 7cals/g.

8) based on your stats I would randomly pick these macros (you can adjust either up or down slightly to suit your tastes but remember for every gram of fat you want to add or take out, that means you have to do ~2x the opposite for carbs and/or protein. If you take out 10g fat that's 90cals. To add 90cals of protein or carbs in you'd need to add ~22g of one or the other.

200g protein
75g fat
180g carbs
Total calories = ~2200cals

^^^those are my numbers and you can adjust each one somewhat up or down but keep TOTAL CALORIES THE SAME!

9) I don't mention carbs post workout for insulin spike whatsoever. I happen to agree, worrying about insulin spikes only applies if you're diabetic or pinning insulin as part of a cycle. I say to eat carbs post-workout because they're are two processes after working out which you have to worry about. Muscle protein synthesis and muscle catabolism. After an intense workout, your muscles will be broken down from training stimulus and will lean towards catabolism. Muscle protein synthesis only responds to ingested protein. Protein will create a positive net protein synthesis balance. But protein does nothing for the catabolism side of the equation, only carbs can help here. Carbs prevent catabolism since they will be used as the primary fuel source not muscle protein. And protein will not stop the catabolic process. That's why you should take both. Now if you ate recently before training there's no need to rush home to make food or chug a shake within 37.6seconds of your last set. That's silly since a meal takes 4-6hrs to fully digest and absorb. If you're training fasted or ate 3-4+hrs before training, take carbs and protein as soon as you can after training. If you ate before training, you can wait till your home to eat or even a bit longer since nutrients are still being absorbed from earlier.


Now, what happens to your muscle mass ultimately depends on the balance between these two competing processes. I***8217;ve tried to illustrate this below with three possible scenarios.
Protein synthesis > Protein breakdown = Muscle mass increases
Protein synthesis = Protein breakdown = No change in muscle mass
Protein synthesis < Protein breakdown = Muscle mass decreases

While athletes are rarely that interested in technical details and only want the practical applications, to understand everything I want to talk about I need to look at a bit more detail, specifically how protein and carbohydrates interact with the processes of protein synthesis and breakdown discussed above. And it basically works out like this:
Protein (amino acids) stimulate protein synthesis but have no impact on protein breakdown.
Insulin (secondary to carb consumption) inhibits protein breakdown with no impact on protein synthesis.
It***8217;s actually a touch more complex than this. Protein can impact on protein breakdown under certain conditions and insulin can impact directly on protein synthesis (and there happens to be a big difference in terms of what happens at rest vs. after training). But for the most part, following training, the above will hold true.
Which leads us towards an ideal of post-workout nutrition. First and foremost I should point out that if you train and don***8217;t eat anything afterwards (and this assumes you haven***8217;t eaten a few hours before), the body will actually remain in a net catabolic state. That is, protein breakdown will be greater than protein synthesis. That***8217;s bad. But only really applies if you***8217;re training first thing in the morning after a fast (how many studies are done) and haven***8217;t eaten anything.
But let***8217;s assume that you eat something following training. Should it be protein, carbs, both, or some other combination? First let***8217;s look at the single feeding studies. That is, let***8217;s say that you could only choose one or the other following training, which should you choose. The answer there is clearly protein alone which will be vastly superior to carbohydrate alone. Because while consuming carbohydrates will decrease protein breakdown, only protein will increase protein synthesis (and provide the building blocks for building new muscle).
And this is also where a rather silly idea has come from in the post-workout recommendations. Folks will often state that ***8220;You only need protein post-workout because carbs don***8217;t effect protein synthesis.***8221; This is true but ignores the impact of decreasing protein breakdown on net protein gain.
Certainly increasing protein synthesis appears to be relatively more important than decreasing protein breakdown but the simple fact is that you get the biggest overall effect if you target both at the same time. Which means a combination of protein and carbohydrates.
I should probably mention dietary fat and the simple fact is that fat intake post-workout is woefully understudied. One study found no difference in anything with a meal containing fat vs one not-containing fat (so you folks insanely obsessed with not slowing gastric emptying by consuming dietary fat can stop worrying) but beyond that there***8217;s little research. One study did find that full fat milk promoted protein synthesis better than skim milk following training but nobody is sure why. It wasn***8217;t because more calories were consumed because the researchers also tested enough skim milk to match the calories of the whole milk; whole milk was still superior.
In any case, that***8217;s the overall conclusion that I draw from looking at the body of literature: while protein alone is superior to carbohydrates alone, the combination of the two will have the greatest impact on promoting muscle growth (as well as having other beneficial effects on muscle glycogen, etc).

Muscle Growth and Post-Workout Nutrition | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

10) milk is a great post-workout choice, I happen to not like the taste of plain milk so I do chocolate flavored whey with either milk or water, some granola, and sometimes a banana.

11) you tried those diets but they didn't help? Maybe IF wouldn't but how could keto not help with lethargy and sleepiness etc if you're taking in less than 25-50g of carbs a day?? You can have those carbs in one meal and no carbs for the rest of the day or split it up into small carb portions so how we're you getting diabetic like effects, especially if you're not diabetic?? Or do you mean it didn't help you lose weight?? If you mean the lose weight part, maybe its bc your numbers are off (pointed that out above) for TDEE and BMR. If the diabetic effects part, you must have not done keto as prescribed since our carb intake is at complete minimal levels and you're using ketones for fuel not glucose!

Hope that helps you bro
 
Halfwit, Doc, thanks for your replies bros, can always count on you 2 for some helpful info. Doc, I know,I should have started my own thread hope I didn't piss anyone off, I usually know better.

Prowl, if OP doesn't care than neither do I. If your question wasn't answered let me know buddy!
 
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