I have GYNO...New labs vs old labs...somone please help me out

[liftstrong12]

4 weeks into a 400mg/wk Test-P cycle I starting getting gyno. Itchy nips and lumps under one. Prior to gyno I was taking .25mg adex eod. After gyno onset I started 50mg Nolva and 1mg adex both ed. after 10 days I went down to 25mg Nolva and .5mg adex. I also started Anavar (var) at week 5. I am currently starting week 8, of a 10 weeker. Gyno has not reversed but seems not to be getting worse. Below are my labs from a week after gyno started, and below that are my labs from last week which was 3 days after I went down to the 25mg Nolva/.5mg Adex. Based on what you see, what would you do? I also just started 500iu Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) e3d until PCT.



(First Labs drawn Sept 4th)

WBC 10.3 4.0-10.5 x10E3/uL RN

RBC 4.89 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL RN

Hemoglobin 15.1 12.6-17.7 g/dL RN

Hematocrit 45.9 37.5-51.0 % RN

MCV 94 79-97 fL RN

MCH 30.9 26.6-33.0 pg RN

MCHC 32.9 31.5-35.7 g/dL RN

RDW 13.1 12.3-15.4 % RN

Platelets 328 140-415 x10E3/uL RN

Neutrophils 69 40-74 % RN

Lymphs 19 14-46 % RN

Monocytes 11 4-13 % RN

Eos 1 0-7 % RN

Basos 0 0-3 % RN

Neutrophils (Absolute) 7.1 1.8-7.8 x10E3/uL RN

Lymphs (Absolute) 1.9 0.7-4.5 x10E3/uL RN

Monocytes(Absolute) 1.2 HIGH 0.1-1.0 x10E3/uL RN

Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL RN

Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL RN

Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % RN

Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL RN

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)

Glucose, Serum 83 65-99 mg/dL RN

BUN 26 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL RN

Creatinine, Serum 1.31 HIGH 0.76-1.27 mg/dL RN

eGFR If NonAfricn Am 71 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN

eGFR If Africn Am 82 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 20 HIGH 8-19 RN

Sodium, Serum 138 134-144 mmol/L RN

Potassium, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.2 mmol/L RN

Chloride, Serum 97 97-108 mmol/L RN

Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 19-28 mmol/L RN

Calcium, Serum 9.7 8.7-10.2 mg/dL RN

Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL RN

Albumin, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.5 g/dL RN

Globulin, Total 2.7 1.5-4.5 g/dL RN

A/G Ratio 1.5 1.1-2.5 RN

Bilirubin, Total



Alkaline Phosphatase, S 65 44-102 IU/L RN

AST (SGOT) 48 HIGH 0-40 IU/L RN

ALT (SGPT) 58 HIGH 0-44 IU/L RN

Testosterone, Serum

Testosterone, Serum >1500 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL RN

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S

LH 0.1 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL RN

FSH, Serum

FSH 0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL RN

Estradiol

Estradiol 60.4 HIGH 7.6-42.6 pg/mL RN



(Second Labs drawn sept 19th)

WBC 14.9 HIGH 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL RN

RBC 4.90 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL RN

Hemoglobin 15.2 12.6-17.7 g/dL RN

Hematocrit 45.5 37.5-51.0 % RN

MCV 93 79-97 fL RN

MCH 31.0 26.6-33.0 pg RN

MCHC 33.4 31.5-35.7 g/dL RN

RDW 12.7 12.3-15.4 % RN

Platelets 345 155-379 x10E3/uL RN

Neutrophils 80 HIGH 40-74 % RN

Lymphs 14 14-46 % RN

Monocytes 5 4-12 % RN

Eos 1 0-5 % RN

Basos 0 0-3 % RN

Neutrophils (Absolute) 11.9 HIGH 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL RN

Lymphs (Absolute) 2.1 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL RN

Monocytes(Absolute) 0.8 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL RN

Eos (Absolute) 0.1 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL RN

Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL RN

Immature Granulocytes 0 0-2 % RN

Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL RN

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)

Glucose, Serum 102 HIGH 65-99 mg/dL RN

BUN 23 HIGH 6-20 mg/dL RN

Creatinine, Serum 1.18 0.76-1.27 mg/dL RN

eGFR If NonAfricn Am 80 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN

eGFR If Africn Am 93 >59 mL/min/1.73 RN

BUN/Creatinine Ratio 19 8-19 RN

Sodium, Serum 136 134-144 mmol/L RN

Potassium, Serum 4.0 3.5-5.2 mmol/L RN

Chloride, Serum 98 97-108 mmol/L RN

Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 19-28 mmol/L RN

Calcium, Serum 9.3 8.7-10.2 mg/dL RN

Protein, Total, Serum 6.7 6.0-8.5 g/dL RN

Albumin, Serum 3.9 3.5-5.5 g/dL RN

Globulin, Total 2.8 1.5-4.5 g/dL RN

A/G Ratio 1.4 1.1-2.5 RN

Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL RN

Alkaline Phosphatase, S 55 44-102 IU/L RN

AST (SGOT) 28 0-40 IU/L RN

ALT (SGPT) 27 0-44 IU/L RN

Testosterone, Serum

Testosterone, Serum >1500 HIGH 348-1197 ng/dL RN

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S

LH 0.1 LOW 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL RN

FSH, Serum

FSH <0.2 LOW 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL RN

Estradiol

Estradiol 41.9 7.6-42.6 pg/mL RN

 

[enzo321]

The bros are going to tell you to try letro among other things, but from my knowledge there's no way to remove actual breast tissue via drugs.

Surgery, and that's it. It'll continue to look worse as your lose weight. If I was in your situation and actually got gyno I would yolo and cycle harder for a good year, and than get the surgery - cost about 3-4k in America.


If you're lucky the letro therapy might get rid of the abundance of cells connecting at the head of the nipple receptors.

 

[liftstrong12]

The bros are going to tell you to try letro among other things, but from my knowledge there's no way to remove actual breast tissue via drugs.

Surgery, and that's it. It'll continue to look worse as your lose weight. If I was in your situation and actually got gyno I would yolo and cycle harder for a good year, and than get the surgery - cost about 3-4k in America.


If you're lucky the letro therapy might get rid of the abundance of cells connecting at the head of the nipple receptors.

Yeah I hear lots of different things regarding that...I will try everything I can first, and then if I need to go under the knife I will. I was really looking for thoughts on my labs...old vs new. My E2 level went down to the low 40's from mid 60's. I thought I wanted to get into the 20-30 range. Should I change my Aromatase inhibitor (AI) or dosage?

 

[DreDay187]

Raloxifene at 60mg/day for 10days then 30mg daily until gone or tamoxifen at 40mg daily for 2wks then 20mg/day until gone

 

[DreDay187]

The bros are going to tell you to try letro among other things, but from my knowledge there's no way to remove actual breast tissue via drugs.

Surgery, and that's it. It'll continue to look worse as your lose weight. If I was in your situation and actually got gyno I would yolo and cycle harder for a good year, and than get the surgery - cost about 3-4k in America.


If you're lucky the letro therapy might get rid of the abundance of cells connecting at the head of the nipple receptors.

Tamoxifen/nolva and raloxifene/evista do a very good job at reversing gyno without the need for surgery.

 

[bushleaguechew]

Either increase your Adex or switch to aromasin 25mg per day. Taper down the Adex while giving the aromasin a good week to kick in.


Edit. I was the same, running a relatively low dose of testosterone but I couldn't get the itchy nips to go away on Adex. Even at 1mg a day. Then I switched to aromasin and man, what a difference that made.

 

[enzo321]

Tamoxifen/nolva and raloxifene/evista do a very good job at reversing gyno without the need for surgery.

I know you've explained it before, but do you have a reputable source? Like a government study.

I want to read more about it. I don't believe shit w/o hard evidence

 

[Megatron28]

I know you've explained it before, but do you have a reputable source? Like a government study.

I want to read more about it. I don't believe shit w/o hard evidence

Let me google that for you

Read the first Pubmed link.

 

[uberlit]

Raloxifene is legit, cured a dime sized hard lump I had under nip in less than 4 weeks. :-D

 

[unkazra1]

Tamoxifen/nolva and raloxifene/evista do a very good job at reversing gyno without the need for surgery.

RUI! Check'em out bro. Lots of positive feed back on these guys. Sorry to hear bout the gyno. Hope it works out man.

 

[DreDay187]

RUI! Check'em out bro. Lots of positive feed back on these guys. Sorry to hear bout the gyno. Hope it works out man.

I hope you quoted the wrong guy bc I do NOT have gyno hahaha!

 

[DreDay187]

I know you've explained it before, but do you have a reputable source? Like a government study.

I want to read more about it. I don't believe shit w/o hard evidence

Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a doubl... [Metabolism. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in ... [J Pediatr. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Evaluation of tamoxifen and anastrozole in the ... [J Clin Oncol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks Megatron for that link too!

 

[enzo321]

Seems to only reduce in size, not actually remove the breast tissue like I thought.

At least I only read 2/3.

 

[enzo321]

Let me google that for you

Read the first Pubmed link.

Thx, as I would of been googling "letro gyno therapy".

 

[enzo321]

I hope you quoted the wrong guy bc I do NOT have gyno hahaha!

Pics for gtfo.

 

[DreDay187]

Seems to only reduce in size, not actually remove the breast tissue like I thought.

At least I only read 2/3.

[Influence of size and duration of gyne - PubMed Mobile

^^^gyno disappeared in 26 patients

 

[liftstrong12]

I'm at 25mg nolva and .5mg adex ed. I feel like the lump is getting harder and maybe bigger. I have letro on hand. Would my best course of action be to switch to letro or to increase both nolva and adex? What about the last three weeks on cycle? Cut short and move into post cycle therapy (pct)? Reduce test from 400 to 200? Or ride it out and keep working the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Serm?

 

[DreDay187]

I'm at 25mg nolva and .5mg adex ed. I feel like the lump is getting harder and maybe bigger. I have letro on hand. Would my best course of action be to switch to letro or to increase both nolva and adex? What about the last three weeks on cycle? Cut short and move into post cycle therapy (pct)? Reduce test from 400 to 200? Or ride it out and keep working the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and Serm?

How long have you been at that dosing and have you gotten blood work recently?

 

[KingBF]

Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a doubl... [Metabolism. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in ... [J Pediatr. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Evaluation of tamoxifen and anastrozole in the ... [J Clin Oncol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

Thanks Megatron for that link too!

how long does it usually take? I know when I used the letro protocol within 2 weeks lumps were gone. using nolva an take month's right?

 

[DreDay187]

how long does it usually take? I know when I used the letro protocol within 2 weeks lumps were gone. using nolva an take month's right?

Some have reported weeks some it takes months. Depends on a few things I would imagine but another difference would be not having to crush your E2 levels with Nolva. How did you feel while using the letro?

Edit* forgot to mention efficacy at reversing gyno is significantly higher with a SERM than with letro.