I'm a hardgainer...Is it time for AS use?

[backup]

I'm looking for advice/opinions on whether or not I should be considering the further use (it will be my second cycle) of AS at this time.

It may have been a mistake, but I did do a short(8 week) test/deca cycle that ended about 4 months ago. I gained about 15 lbs. and after I stripped of the water it was a net gain of about 6 Lb.s

Some vitals are as follows...6'2", 174 LBs., Ave BF 8-12% (depending on diet).

My bench is 245, Full Squat 295, Deadlift 385.

I think I am a classic hard gainer with a supercharged metabolism. I work out with some guys who keep telling me I am going to need some help to gain size in any reasonable amount of time. I also keep reading that you should not consider AS use until you have maxed your natural ability to grow.

I have been lifting hard for 2.5 years now and have not grown much at all. My strength has also leveled off in the last 2 months.

I am currently running 4 or 5 day splits and work out 3 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off.

I maintain a pretty clean diet of 4000-5000 calories a day. Much more than that and I just seem to get softer on the outside.

I am a newbie to this site. One of my training partners reccomended I come here for some advice.

 

[Perfection Awaits]

No, its simply time u eat

 

[Tafman]

wow ur a skinny mofo

u really need to eat more,
my bro was 6'1 160 back in highschool, went to 250 in a year with a huge calorie diet. now hes 220.

i must say ur lifts are good for your weight and height

 

[backup]

wow ur a skinny mofo

u really need to eat more,
my bro was 6'1 160 back in highschool, went to 250 in a year with a huge calorie diet. now hes 220.

i must say ur lifts are good for your weight and height

That's the thing...my strength seems pretty good for a toothpick. And up until recently I have experienced steady gains in strength...just not size.

How much was your bro eating? It seems like when I get much over 5000 calories, I just add fat around the middle.

 

[GymLift]

That's the thing...my strength seems pretty good for a toothpick. And up until recently I have experienced steady gains in strength...just not size.

How much was your bro eating? It seems like when I get much over 5000 calories, I just add fat around the middle.

Then maybe you need to adjust more than calories, such as the particulars of what you are eating.

Please check out the diet forum. Take a look at this post of a diet from DirkMoneyshot to get started.

 

[Uridium245]

I am currently running 4 or 5 day splits and work out 3 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off.

Bingo, here's where the problem probably lies. I'm gonna guess at your weight and activity factors being about 25 years old and moderately active. Based on those two WAGS a bulking diet for you should be 3500 to 4000 cals per day unless you have an insane metabolism. Small muscle groups need 48 hours to recuperate while large muscle groups like quads need 72 hours. Remember you are not building muscle in the gym, your causing damage (micro-tearing) to the muscle cells. Your building muscle on your days off and while sleeping. While natty 3 to 4 days in the gym a week is probably fine. Your strength has increased because your CNS has adapted to the loads its been placed under but has reached a plateau because your muscle mass hasn't increased much.

Bottom line you need to dial some things in before cycling again.

 

[Amateur]

Maybe you need to slow down your training a bit, try doing 3 days per week monday, wednesday, friday and have weekends off, try this for a month or two and see how your body responds. Also you say you eat 4000-5000 cals a day, show us an example of your diet.

 

[backup]

Maybe you need to slow down your training a bit, try doing 3 days per week monday, wednesday, friday and have weekends off, try this for a month or two and see how your body responds. Also you say you eat 4000-5000 cals a day, show us an example of your diet.

Okay..Here is an average training day meal regime...Also, I apologize for the turn this thread is taking. I am probably in the wrong forum for this now...

I am pretty disciplined about my eating. Also, I am 34 years old and pretty active on weekends, etc. but I don't do any intentional cardio.

6 AM- Protein shake mixed w/ milk and fruit- 35 gr. protein

8 AM - Real food breakfast, ex. 5-6 egg omelette w/ meat, cheese, & veggies or a large breakfast burrito w/ potato, egg, and bacon.

10 AM - 25 gr. protein shake or meal replacement bar

12 PM - Real Food Lunch, ex- 2 chicken breast w/ rice and veggies

3 PM - snack- ex. bagel w/ cream cheese and meat, or yogurt w/ fruit and granola

5:30 PM (Pre-workout) - Protein shake w/ fruit, milk, yogurt and anything else handy that I can throw in like peanut butter.

Immediately before my workout I take 2-3 scoops of NO-Xplode. Immediately after my workout I take Cellmass creatine ethyl esther and down a muscle milk RTD.

8:00 - light dinner - chicken breast, flank steak, lean steak, or the like with a salad and some carbs (small potato, rice, etc.)

10:30 - 22 gram calcium caseinate protein shake w/ milk to get me through the night.

 

[Jusee]

Maybe your eating the wrong food if your getting soft. Maybe your not training hard enough? Only take a cycle if you know how to progress without it.

 

[Jimmykick]

Are you consistent with your diet?
What about your workout routine? Are you doing 6 to 8 reps to failure?
How many sets, etc.

Are you really eating 4,000 to 5,000 calories every day?

 

[Fender]

Diet looks pretty good...for a cutter. Throw in some oatmeal at breakfast and eat some pizza and burgers and other crap for some calories. I think that is your problem. Protein intake looks good but I don't think you are hitting 4000-5000 calories.

 

[Jimmykick]

me either

 

[Perfection Awaits]

me either

 

[DADAWG]

Diet looks pretty good...for a cutter. Throw in some oatmeal at breakfast and eat some pizza and burgers and other crap for some calories. I think that is your problem. Protein intake looks good but I don't think you are hitting 4000-5000 calories.

i agree , im not seeing 4000-5000 calories there .

backup dont take that as a negative comment , thats a pretty damn disciplined diet if your sticking to it but with your metabolism your gonna need more calories . also you will have to get over your fear of getting a little soft as you call it . read all the post here talking about a " bulker " and you will see that when your running a excess calorie diet is when your gonna grow , food is the most anabolic steroid [ yes i know its not a steroid but you get what i mean lol ] .

 

[backup]

i agree , im not seeing 4000-5000 calories there .

backup dont take that as a negative comment , thats a pretty damn disciplined diet if your sticking to it but with your metabolism your gonna need more calories . also you will have to get over your fear of getting a little soft as you call it . read all the post here talking about a " bulker " and you will see that when your running a excess calorie diet is when your gonna grow , food is the most anabolic steroid [ yes i know its not a steroid but you get what i mean lol ] .

I really appreciate all of the replys. I am in a pretty small gym and there are only a few guys who are serious about working out...

I did some hardcore calorie counting today and I think you all are right...I think I am probably consistently getting in the 3000 calorie range...so I stopped at taco time on my way home tonight...3 combo burritos and a crisp meat burrito...damn I'm full...

I really expected to get a bunch of posts telling me to hit the pins hard. I am actually very suprised to get such objective feedback.

Tonight I hit the gym for a leg workout with emphasis on the quads...I'll do full squats working up to a load I can do for only 4 reps. Then I will do leg presses or hack squats for 4 sets of 8 reps. I'll do extensions for 4 sets of 10 and then work my calves. I'll also work abs tonight.

 

[backup]

Are you consistent with your diet?
What about your workout routine? Are you doing 6 to 8 reps to failure?
How many sets, etc.

Are you really eating 4,000 to 5,000 calories every day?

I am very consistent with my diet... except I usually have Pizza on Fridays. I do also like my tortilla chips. You can add in about 2 handfuls of tortilla chips to my daily food intake.

I am on my way to the gym now but when I get home tonight I will give you a breakdown of my current splits, reps, and sets.

I wait all day for the next hour I get in the gym....

 

[Jimmykick]

I really expected to get a bunch of posts telling me to hit the pins hard. I am actually very suprised to get such objective feedback.

This site is the best IMO for it's responsible and careful advice re: steroid use
The members edcuate themselves with as much clinical and scientific evidence possible (which isn't much out there) and supplement that advice with their own experiences. i believe the more informed people here know more than the medical community re: anabolics. Unfortunately we are all lab rats! LOL

 

[Amateur]

Only take a cycle if you know how to progress without it.

Big bump to this backup, even if you did a cycle on your current diet, you might put on some lean lbs and gain some strength, but as soon as you come off cycle your body will just want to throw off the weight you've gained to come back to your current state unless you improve the diet to give it a reason to grow more.

 

[Jusee]

Unfortunately we are all lab rats!

haha!

 

[backup]

Okay...Here are the current splits, reps, sets I am running...I have been on this routine for about 4 weeks now.

Unless otherwise noted, on all exercises I'm using a weight that I need help with the last 1 to 3 reps on my final set or sometimes my last two sets

Day 1 - Legs -

Full squats=135x8, 185x6, 225x6, 275x4, 295x4 (New top end for me tonight)...after this I will keep working up in weight doing sets of three. They get progressivly shallower but feeling the heavier weights helps me get through the intimidation factor. Tonight I got about 8 inches of depth with 495.

Leg presses or Hack squats= 4 sets of 8 reps. On our sled I have 12 plates

Leg extensions= 4 sets of 8 reps

Barbell or Dumbell Lunges = 4 sets 8 reps

Day 2 - Chest & Upper Back

Flat Bench Press = 135x8, 155x6, 185x6, 205x6, 225x4, 245x4, Final set of 265 w/ forced reps

Incline or Decline Dumbell Press = 4 sets of 8

Dumbell or Cable Flyes = 4 sets of 8

T-bar or Barbell Rows = 2 warm up sets then work up to 4 rep maximum...usually 6 sets total

Wide grip Pull ups or Lat pull downs = 4 sets of 8

Seated rows = 4 sets of 8

Day 3 - Shoulders (One of my weakest muscle groups)

Military Press = start with 95 for 8 reps and work up to 4 rep max(155x4). Usually 6 sets total.

Front, side, and rear lateral raises = 3 sets of 10 of each.

Upright(vertical?) Barbell rows = 4 sets of 10

Day 4 - Rest

Day 5 - Legs and Lower Back

Deadlifts = 185x8, 225x6, 275x6, 315x6, 365x4, 385x4,

SL Deadlifts = 4 sets 8

Leg Curls = 4 sets 10

Rack Pulls = start with 225 and work up in sets of 3-6 to my 3 rep max at 585.

Day 6 - Arms/Calves

Barbell curls = 5 sets 8 (currently 115 is my working weight)

Dumbell Hammer curls = 5 sets 8

Preacher curls = 5 sets 8

cable concentration curls = 1 set 15 to 20 for the pump

Dips = 5 sets 8 (currently only body weight0

Skull Crushers = 5 sets 8

Pushdowns = 5 sets of 8

Donkey Calf Raises = 5 sets 10

Day 7 - Rest

Day 8 - Rest

I usually work abs on day 1, 3, and 5 at the end of my workout.

Wow...that was a lot of work writing that out. I'm sure it isn't perfect...so fire away with your suggestions on how I can modify...