is anyone still advocating short cycles?

[Pupil2Prodigy]

SHORT CYCLES good gains-less sides

I read up on Realgains thread both here and on cuttingedgemuscle, he had a lot of very intriguing feedback there.

anyone here have first hand experience with short cycles?

any opinions, links, or info is greatly appreciated

as always, thanks for taking the time-

 

[snowpatrol123]

No first hand experience, not a lot to add beyond what I and others mentioned in the thread you linked.

I'll just reiterate; in my opinion you will get better, lasting results from medium to longer cycles (10+ weeks)

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

starting @ 4:55

Ric Drasin, "What about the guys who stay on, tell em, who stay on all year round, tell them what happens"

Rich Piana, "yeah basically...basically it's more beneficial to take breaks and cycle on and off and a drug is a drug we've talked about this before and you know your body builds up a resistance to any drug and any drug you're taking for a certain amount of time the bodys' gonna build up a resistance and it's no longer gonna work so if you're taking test and decca for 3 months it's only gonna work for probably the first six weeks after that it's not gonna work anymore because your bodies' worked up a resistance so you could switch to two other compounds and it'll keep working cause it's two different compounds. It won't work the same as if you were on nothing and started fresh. But going from 2 drugs to two different drugs is definitely gonna keep the ball rollin' in the right direction but eventually you're gonna run out of compounds to switch around and your receptors are gonna get so clogged that they're no longer gonna work. And the last thing you're gonna wanna do is continue taking steroids damaging your body, damaging your organs and not getting any benefit and there's many guys out there who I know personally that have looked the same for 5 years and they're taking drugs yearly non-stop, no breaks just to maintain the way they look and that defeats the purpose, we're not trying to maintain you're trying to continue to progress and get better"

What do you guys think about the 6 week time frame he's talking about??

 

[XELFLEC]

I'd believe bostin before piana.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

I'd believe bostin before piana.

why so?

 

[nike1990]

I advocate for medium-long cycles just because thats my personal experience; I've never tried a short cycle, and have no real interest to since what I've done has been proven to work for me and people I know.

It is definitely an interesting idea however. I'd like to see some more research on it if there is any.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

I've never tried a short cycle, and have no real interest either since what I've done has been proven to work for me and people I know.

right on-

for me, not having cycled yet and progressing naturally,
running a short cycle with purportedly less side effects is appealing
I'm very interested in the minimum effective dosages, distinctively safer time frames and the following compounds:
prop, tbol and primobolan​

from OP, on Primobolan, "Primobolan is a well-known and popular steroid as well. Like nandrolone it's most often used as a base compound for stacking with other steroids. Methenolone however, is a DHT-based steroid (actually, DHB or dihydroboldenone, the 5-alpha reduced of the milder boldenon). Meaning when it interacts with the aromatase enzyme it does not form estrogens at all. That makes it ideal for use when cutting when excess estrogen is best avoided because of its retentive effects on water and fat. Methenolone is mostly only used in such instances, or by people who are very succeptible to estrogenic side-effects, because the anabolic activity of methenolone is slightly lower than that of nandrolone, quite likely because it is non-estrogenic. Like nandrolone, methenolone is very mild on the system. Probably the reason why both are strongly favored as base compounds in stacks. Methenolone has no estrogenic side-effects whatsoever, on account of its structure. Its effects on the cholesterol levels are barely noticeable. In doses of 200 mg or less (injectable) blood pressure is rarely, if at all, altered. As for hepatoxicity, long-term use will of course increase liver values but gradually and only slightly. The injections of course, since they only pass the liver once, have roughly half the liver-toxic effects of the tabs. The low liver-toxicity is accounted for that the bio-availability of methenolone is carried by a 1-methyl-group, which lessens the need for a carrier attachment such as a 17-alpha-akylated group, the main culprit in steroid-related liver afflictions. Dosage : 300-400 mg per week is minimum amount for satisfying gains. 500-600 mg per week will produce really good results . Maximum dosages can be 1000 mg per week There are several esters of Drostanolone and all of them requires different Injecting Schedule Methelonone Acetate : Every 2-3 days . Methelonone Enanthate: 1 or 2 times per week. 2 times per week is better "

from OP, on Tbol, "Oral Turinabol, or 4-chlorodehydromethyltestosterone (often called "OT" or T-bol by athletes) was the most widely used drug for the East German Olympic Doping Program, known as "State Plan 14.25." It was given to roughly ten thousand athletes whose results were meticulously recorded by scientists, coaches, and doctors working for the East German Olympic program. As a result of this, it is one of the most extensively researched Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids ever produced, with regards to it's effects on strength, speed, and athletic training. Oral Turinabol is one of the few drugs to be in high demand among both athletes as well as bodybuilders, regardless of whether they are on a bulking cycle or a cutting cycle. Athletes who have usedt this drug have reported that it is nearly as good for bulking as Dianabol, but with much less water retention. Reported weight gain with Oral Turinabol is generally less than experienced with classic oral bulking agents such as Dianabol or Anadrol (Oxymetholone) , but is much more "dry" and lean. Many have compared the quality of gains experienced with Oral Turinabol to be similar to Anavar, but with more actual weight gain. Oral Turinabol also has the ability to bind to SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and thereby prevent it from attaching itself to free testosterone in the body, and this may actually allow more testosterone to become unbound and available in the body.
Male athletes who are using Oral Turinabol as part of a bulking cycle generally combine anywhere from 20-60mgs of Oral Turinabol with some form of testosterone at 200-400mgs per week, as well as a steroid with a strong anabolic component such as Deca Durabolin or Equipoise, at a similar dose. Those wishing to use Oral Turinabol in in a cutting cycle would generally use Testosterone at a dose of 200-400mgs/week along with Primobolan or Trenbolone at 300-400mgs/week. As with most oral steroids, use of Oral Turinabol is generally limited to a roughly 6 week portion of a cycle, even when other compounds in the cycle are continued for longer. "

 

[snowpatrol123]

You can find "research" or someone to back almost any position you choose.

(random number that feels approximately right but is definitely not a real statistic) 95% or more gear users choose medium to long length cycles.

So, I ask you:

Do you think the resounding majority of users, who want the absolute best results (most of the time) would be doing longer cycles if in fact shorter ones had proven to be more effective?

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

Do you think the resounding majority of users, who want the absolute best results (most of the time) would be doing longer cycles if in fact shorter ones had proven to be more effective?

right but my motivations are vastly different than those of others,
I'm not looking to be godly or go pro or anything like that, I'm a strong natty..
or at least I consider myself: 500lb deadlift, 300lb press for reps, 600lb leg press for reps
I just wanna look a little different is all without incurring the damage or side effects of the average user​

 

[snowpatrol123]

You're not a special snowflake.

The average user is also interested in cost/benefit, risk/reward - whatever you want to call it.

What are your stats? Age, height, weight, bodyfat, years training etc.

Leg press doesn't tell me much btw - I can only squat 425lbs below parallel but I can push 1170lbs on the leg press machine.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

25, training on and off since 13, mostly on, 6'2 205, bf, roughly 10-11%

 

[XELFLEC]

why so?

I don't believe a word Piana says


with my little experience.
1st cycle 12weeks- 500test only -got gains
2nd cycle 8 weeks 500test/250tren- got gains
3rd cycle 11weeks 600/test and npp-40mg dbol -got gains

And during any of those cycles had I stopped at week 4-6 I wouldn't have seen the gains that I felt mainly came from the later weeks 6-10
Nor would I been able to a build off of and use the strength gains for pushing heavy weight.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

I don't believe a word Piana says

I have read that high dose short cycles are just as effective as lax long cycles. I'm not sure I would run high doses personally, but even with the high dosing it's supposed to be safer because of the time frame

I wouldn't have seen the gains that I felt mainly came from the later weeks 6-10

I would think that is a result of long esters

Nor would I been able to a build off of and use the strength gains for pushing heavy weight.

I'm just trying to achieve a visual difference in my body, not so much an improvement in physical performance

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

I'd believe bostin before piana.

I just checked out this guy Bostin Floyd and he doesn't seem very bright..

 

[snowpatrol123]

I just checked out this guy Bostin Floyd and he doesn't seem very bright..

It's Loyd, not Floyd but whatever. Rich Piana's no genius either

You shouldn't follow any "pro" bodybuilder's advice if you want minimal gains and small asthetic changes - their cycles aren't for you, and they are certainly not short. In fact they never stop.

If you want justification for you pursuit, I doubt you'll get it here but nobody is going to stop you.

Believe it or not, despite being a random person on the internet we generally try to give the best advice possible for your benefit - no one's trying to "shut you down hard" or force you to have a tough recovery; we're merely stating / giving annecdotes to back up our advice that medium to long cycles are more effective and no more dangerous than shorties.

Do whatever you're going to do but don't expect me, or most of this board to back up your "research" when we disagree wholeheartedly.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

Do whatever you're going to do but don't expect me, or most of this board to back up your "research" when we disagree wholeheartedly.

back up man, I aint funneling your advice down the drain. I'm just unconventional and want to try new things.
if I end up cycling shorter than the norm I'll keep a detailed log and try to shed some light on the subject personally​

 

[Pinkbear]

my best gains were on weeks 8-10 and that was on a 10 week cycle.
if i could at least gone to 12 weeks i would have made much better gains.

i feel all cycles should be 10-12 weeks for short esters and 14-16 weeks for longer esters

 

[XELFLEC]

I just checked out this guy Bostin Floyd and he doesn't seem very bright..

Exactly my point. I believe non of what I hear and half of what I see.

 

[Pupil2Prodigy]

Exactly my point. I believe non of what I hear and half of what I see.

imagine that, a free thinker who doesn't follow the crowd, how unapologetically rude of me..

I'd rather weigh out the options rather then taking the tide of the norm, why resort to personal attacks?

 

[snowpatrol123]

why resort to personal attacks?

Looking for the personal attacks you mentioned...