I've Had Bloodwork Done 5 Times in the Past Month-Interesting Results Inside

[thetopdog]

I started a cycle last fall of 600mg Test E and 300mg NPP/week. I ran the cycle for 12 weeks with my last injection occurring January 9th. I ran HCG from weeks 2-8 (only had enough for 6 weeks). During the cycle I got some gyno symptoms and ran Nolva and Letro (was already using Adex during the cycle but it apparently wasn't enough), but I started to have some vision issues (developed a "floater" in my right eye) so I was really hesitant to use AIs or SERMS for PCT because I was really concerned about my eye. Because of this, I decided to get bloodwork done on a regular basis to see if I could recover naturally with little or no PCT.

I got a doctor to write me a prescription for my first blood test on February 5th, then I realized that privatemdlabs.com allows you to pay $60 and get bloodwork done without a prescription, so I used that site for the next 4 tests. Here are the results, I would love to hear your thoughts:

I had my blood tested last year before I started my cycle (and it had been a few years since my last cycle, I've done about 5 cycles over the past 10 years) and my testosterone was in the mid 400s. I'm 32, 5'10", currently 210lbs at about 12% bf. I started my cycle at 195lbs at about 10%bf

January 9th-Last injection of Test E (I injected 600mg because I was about to go on a week-long vacation)

I decided to try to get away with not doing PCT because of the eye issues. So after that injection on Jan 9th, I didn't take anything at all

Feb 5th
Test: 342 ng/DL
Free Test: 59.1 ng/DL
Total Estrogen: 103.8 ng/DL

My test was close enough to my pre-cycle baseline that I decided to still try to avoid PCT. The entire time I was still gaining strength, still maintaining my weight, still had great sex drive, etc.

Feb 12th
Test: 254 ng/DL
LH: 1.4 mIU/mL
FSH: 1.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 24.9 pg/mL
AST: 61 IU/L
ALT: 88 IU/L

I was still feeling great, still no strength loss, still high sex drive. But this test made me realize that my test was still dropping and I would need PCT. So I started on 30mg Toremifene and 12.5mg Aromasin (exemestane) every day. I was trying to keep SERM/AI use to a minium. I also noticed that my liver enzymes were elevated, I had started taking Zanaflex (tizanadine) for a muscle spasm in my back, which may have contributed

Feb 18th
Test: 433 ng/DL
LH: 9.1 mIU/mL
FSH: 5.9 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 7.3 pg/mL
AST: 42 IU/L
ALT: 54 IU/L

Test was back up, which was good. Estrogen is way down and LH and FSH are way up. After this test I switched to 20mg Clomid every day along with 12.5mg Aromasin because I was still experiencing vision issues and figured that it might have been the Toremifene

Feb 22nd
Test: 541 ng/DL
LH: 10.9 mIU/mL
FSH: 6.8 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 20.8 pg/mL
AST: 52 IU/L
ALT: 49 IU/L

Test, LH and FSH were up even more that the week before. Estrogen was up significantly as well. I continued to run 20mg Clomid and 12.5mg Aromasin through Feb 24th, so in total I had 13 days of PCT with Aromasin and either Torem or Clomid at about 1/2 the normal dose

Feb 29th
Test: 623 ng/DL
LH: 7.7 mIU/mL
FSH: 4.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 52.4 pg/mL
AST: 52 IU/L
ALT: 41 IU/L

I was pretty surprised by these results. My test is still going up, even though it was 5 days after my last dose of Clomid/Aromasin. LH and FSH are coming back down, but estrogen is really high. I've been taking DIM and Chrysin the past few days, but I'm not sure if those products actually do anything

So what do you guys think? Can I get away with not taking anything else from this point on? I'm still gaining strength (I have no idea how, every other time I've come off cycle I've lost a significant amount of strength), still really high libido (I didn't experience any change in libido/sex drive/erection quality at all, which is weird since previous cycles left me with a temporary limp noodle), not much change in weight or bf%. Will my estrogen come down to a normal level? My test is almost 50% higher than my baseline and it's been almost a week since my last dose of SERM/AI. Should I take a little Aromasin just to try to get that estrogen number down? Again, I would have loved to do a normal PCT but my vision is even more important to me than recovering properly and I'm really afraid to risk any further eye damage. Hopefully you guys find this interesting and informative, I will continue to get regular bloodwork done over the next few weeks so stay tuned for updates

 

[cbburrr]

I'd still take a little something for PCT, just lighter doses. You could back off more on the aromasin too.
Your LH and FSH responded well to 30 mg of Torem, I bet you'd still see some boost off of 15mg

Nice recovery, and that is great that you kept gains and libido through the whole thing.

And great job on doing blood work often, you and all of us here got to see how your PCT worked play by play! thanks for sharing.

 

[thetopdog]

I'd still take a little something for PCT, just lighter doses. You could back off more on the aromasin too.
Your LH and FSH responded well to 30 mg of Torem, I bet you'd still see some boost off of 15mg

Nice recovery, and that is great that you kept gains and libido through the whole thing.

And great job on doing blood work often, you and all of us here got to see how your PCT worked play by play! thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. Would you recommend that I start 15mg of Torem ED and maybe 12.5mg of Aromasin EOD? If so, should I start immediately? And how long should I run it for? What should I be looking for in my bloodwork that will show me that I've fully recovered?

 

[halfwit]

It's time to let mommy nature do her thing. You can pretty much toss out your results from 2/12 on, as they just show that your body is responding to the SERMs. You could literally keep that going, but you would have no real idea what your body is able to do on its own at this point.

I'd personally stop all the drugs and get a test in six weeks. THAT will tell you if you're recovering, not if SERMs work in forcing production or not. Estradiol will come down as it's metabolized, no need for DIM or chysin unless you still have issues with estradiol - they assist in evacuating "free" estradiol, nothing more.

My .02c

 

[thetopdog]

It's time to let mommy nature do her thing. You can pretty much toss out your results from 2/12 on, as they just show that your body is responding to the SERMs. You could literally keep that going, but you would have no real idea what your body is able to do on its own at this point.

I'd personally stop all the drugs and get a test in six weeks. THAT will tell you if you're recovering, not if SERMs work in forcing production or not. Estradiol will come down as it's metabolized, no need for DIM or chysin unless you still have issues with estradiol - they assist in evacuating "free" estradiol, nothing more.

My .02c

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I have a few questions though:

1-I stopped taking anything 5 days before my last test on Feb 29th. My test level was still pretty high. How long does it take for SERMs to no longer have an effect? I thought the half-lives of SERMs were pretty short, which is why it is recommended to take them every day? So I figured getting my levels checked 5 days after my last dose of SERM would give me some kind of idea of how I'm recovering since the SERM/AI would be out of my system by then? Is that wrong? By your suggestion to wait 6 weeks it seems to indicate that it takes a lot longer for the effect of the SERMs to wear off

2-I believe the general guidelines on PCT say to do it for 4 weeks at a higher dose. I did 1.5 weeks of PCT at about 1/2 the dose recommended, and my LH, FSH and Test levels all indicated that I was recovering. Does this mean the general advice regarding PCT calls for too high a dose for too long? Or am I going to see some kind of crash in the near future since I cut my PCT short and used low doses?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really trying to figure out how this all works and as I mentioned before, I'm trying to limit the amount of SERMs/AI I use if it all possible because I've been experiencing vision issues

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I have a few questions though:

1-I stopped taking anything 5 days before my last test on Feb 29th. My test level was still pretty high. How long does it take for SERMs to no longer have an effect? I thought the half-lives of SERMs were pretty short, which is why it is recommended to take them every day? So I figured getting my levels checked 5 days after my last dose of SERM would give me some kind of idea of how I'm recovering since the SERM/AI would be out of my system by then? Is that wrong? By your suggestion to wait 6 weeks it seems to indicate that it takes a lot longer for the effect of the SERMs to wear off

2-I believe the general guidelines on PCT say to do it for 4 weeks at a higher dose. I did 1.5 weeks of PCT at about 1/2 the dose recommended, and my LH, FSH and Test levels all indicated that I was recovering. Does this mean the general advice regarding PCT calls for too high a dose for too long? Or am I going to see some kind of crash in the near future since I cut my PCT short and used low doses?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just really trying to figure out how this all works and as I mentioned before, I'm trying to limit the amount of SERMs/AI I use if it all possible because I've been experiencing vision issues

1. Half life is about 5 days fore Torem. So you were definitely still under its influence as can be seen in your LH and FSH numbers. Like Halfwit said, wait about 6-8 weeks to see how you are doing on your own.

2. Everyone is different. You have run a bunch of cycles previously so by now you should have a sense of what works best for you. Also note that most guys do not use an AI during PCT so your results are different from theirs as it influences the HPTA.

 

[thetopdog]

1. Half life is about 5 days fore Torem. So you were definitely still under its influence as can be seen in your LH and FSH numbers. Like Halfwit said, wait about 6-8 weeks to see how you are doing on your own.

2. Everyone is different. You have run a bunch of cycles previously so by now you should have a sense of what works best for you. Also note that most guys do not use an AI during PCT so your results are different from theirs as it influences the HPTA.

Thanks for the feedback. One more question. Since I only ran 1.5 weeks of PCT at a low dose, should I run some more Torem this week just in case? I just don't want to wait 6-8 weeks and find out I'm shut down then have to start all over again

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: My 1.5 weeks of PCT caused my Test, LH, and FSH numbers to rise significantly. Is that all that I need to do to start my body on the road to recovery? Or is there a reason to run PCT for longer? I'm just wondering why general guidelines recommend 4 weeks of PCT at a higher dose, and I seemed to get a really good response from 1.5 weeks at a lower dose. I just want to make sure I'm not shortchanging myself on PCT while also minimizing the amount of SERMs I'm ingesting since they give me vision issues. My past cycles I've followed general PCT guidelines and recovered fine, but I would like to avoid running SERMs for 4 weeks if at all possible

 

[Megatron28]

Thanks for the feedback. One more question. Since I only ran 1.5 weeks of PCT at a low dose, should I run some more Torem this week just in case? I just don't want to wait 6-8 weeks and find out I'm shut down then have to start all over again

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is this: My 1.5 weeks of PCT caused my Test, LH, and FSH numbers to rise significantly. Is that all that I need to do to start my body on the road to recovery? Or is there a reason to run PCT for longer? I'm just wondering why general guidelines recommend 4 weeks of PCT at a higher dose, and I seemed to get a really good response from 1.5 weeks at a lower dose. I just want to make sure I'm not shortchanging myself on PCT while also minimizing the amount of SERMs I'm ingesting since they give me vision issues. My past cycles I've followed general PCT guidelines and recovered fine, but I would like to avoid running SERMs for 4 weeks if at all possible

So it looks like you have actually been on PCT since Feb 12th. So 2.5 weeks of PCT, right?

This is your 5th cycle and 5th time running PCT, right? With that experience I imagine you know how your body recovers after a cycle. Use that experience to determine how long you need to run PCT for. Any of us would just be guessing.

 

[thetopdog]

So it looks like you have actually been on PCT since Feb 12th. So 2.5 weeks of PCT, right?

This is your 5th cycle and 5th time running PCT, right? With that experience I imagine you know how your body recovers after a cycle. Use that experience to determine how long you need to run PCT for. Any of us would just be guessing.

I stopped PCT on Feb 24th, and haven't taken anything since then. When I got my blood drawn on Feb 29th I had been off PCT for 5 days. I apologize if I didn't make that clear in my initial post

All my other cycles I did the standard PCT of 4 weeks. The weird thing is that this time, even though I only did PCT for 1.5 weeks, subjectively (the way I look, my strength and libido) I feel better right now than I did after any of my other cycles. I'm just worried that a week or two from now I might crash, which is why I'm wondering whether or not I should start a SERM again today and run it for another week or so just to be safe

 

[copaseet]

I started a cycle last fall of 600mg Test E and 300mg NPP/week. I ran the cycle for 12 weeks with my last injection occurring January 9th. I ran HCG from weeks 2-8 (only had enough for 6 weeks). During the cycle I got some gyno symptoms and ran Nolva and Letro (was already using Adex during the cycle but it apparently wasn't enough), but I started to have some vision issues (developed a "floater" in my right eye) so I was really hesitant to use AIs or SERMS for PCT because I was really concerned about my eye. Because of this, I decided to get bloodwork done on a regular basis to see if I could recover naturally with little or no PCT.

I got a doctor to write me a prescription for my first blood test on February 5th, then I realized that privatemdlabs.com allows you to pay $60 and get bloodwork done without a prescription, so I used that site for the next 4 tests. Here are the results, I would love to hear your thoughts:

I had my blood tested last year before I started my cycle (and it had been a few years since my last cycle, I've done about 5 cycles over the past 10 years) and my testosterone was in the mid 400s. I'm 32, 5'10", currently 210lbs at about 12% bf. I started my cycle at 195lbs at about 10%bf

January 9th-Last injection of Test E (I injected 600mg because I was about to go on a week-long vacation)

I decided to try to get away with not doing PCT because of the eye issues. So after that injection on Jan 9th, I didn't take anything at all

Feb 5th
Test: 342 ng/DL
Free Test: 59.1 ng/DL
Total Estrogen: 103.8 ng/DL

My test was close enough to my pre-cycle baseline that I decided to still try to avoid PCT. The entire time I was still gaining strength, still maintaining my weight, still had great sex drive, etc.

Feb 12th
Test: 254 ng/DL
LH: 1.4 mIU/mL
FSH: 1.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 24.9 pg/mL
AST: 61 IU/L
ALT: 88 IU/L

I was still feeling great, still no strength loss, still high sex drive. But this test made me realize that my test was still dropping and I would need PCT. So I started on 30mg Toremifene and 12.5mg Aromasin (exemestane) every day. I was trying to keep SERM/AI use to a minium. I also noticed that my liver enzymes were elevated, I had started taking Zanaflex (tizanadine) for a muscle spasm in my back, which may have contributed

Feb 18th
Test: 433 ng/DL
LH: 9.1 mIU/mL
FSH: 5.9 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 7.3 pg/mL
AST: 42 IU/L
ALT: 54 IU/L

Test was back up, which was good. Estrogen is way down and LH and FSH are way up. After this test I switched to 20mg Clomid every day along with 12.5mg Aromasin because I was still experiencing vision issues and figured that it might have been the Toremifene

Feb 22nd
Test: 541 ng/DL
LH: 10.9 mIU/mL
FSH: 6.8 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 20.8 pg/mL
AST: 52 IU/L
ALT: 49 IU/L

Test, LH and FSH were up even more that the week before. Estrogen was up significantly as well. I continued to run 20mg Clomid and 12.5mg Aromasin through Feb 24th, so in total I had 13 days of PCT with Aromasin and either Torem or Clomid at about 1/2 the normal dose

Feb 29th
Test: 623 ng/DL
LH: 7.7 mIU/mL
FSH: 4.4 mIU/mL
Estradiol: 52.4 pg/mL
AST: 52 IU/L
ALT: 41 IU/L

I was pretty surprised by these results. My test is still going up, even though it was 5 days after my last dose of Clomid/Aromasin. LH and FSH are coming back down, but estrogen is really high. I've been taking DIM and Chrysin the past few days, but I'm not sure if those products actually do anything

So what do you guys think? Can I get away with not taking anything else from this point on? I'm still gaining strength (I have no idea how, every other time I've come off cycle I've lost a significant amount of strength), still really high libido (I didn't experience any change in libido/sex drive/erection quality at all, which is weird since previous cycles left me with a temporary limp noodle), not much change in weight or bf%. Will my estrogen come down to a normal level? My test is almost 50% higher than my baseline and it's been almost a week since my last dose of SERM/AI. Should I take a little Aromasin just to try to get that estrogen number down? Again, I would have loved to do a normal PCT but my vision is even more important to me than recovering properly and I'm really afraid to risk any further eye damage. Hopefully you guys find this interesting and informative, I will continue to get regular bloodwork done over the next few weeks so stay tuned for updates

Wait about 4 weeks (thats if your off all the SERMS now).... I bet your T will be in the 200's... similar thing happend to me recntly.... my pre cycle T was in the 250ish... then I got bloodwork about 8 weeks after SERMS and it was 200... now im on TRT (not because of the cycle, it was just time)

 

[Transporter]

I stopped PCT on Feb 24th, and haven't taken anything since then. When I got my blood drawn on Feb 29th I had been off PCT for 5 days. I apologize if I didn't make that clear in my initial post

All my other cycles I did the standard PCT of 4 weeks. The weird thing is that this time, even though I only did PCT for 1.5 weeks, subjectively (the way I look, my strength and libido) I feel better right now than I did after any of my other cycles. I'm just worried that a week or two from now I might crash, which is why I'm wondering whether or not I should start a SERM again today and run it for another week or so just to be safe

Listen to Halfwit and Mega's advice. Stop everything and wait 6 weeks, then go and do bloods. That way you will see exactly where you stand as far as recovery goes.

 

[Megatron28]

Wait about 4 weeks (thats if your off all the SERMS now).... I bet your T will be in the 200's... similar thing happend to me recntly.... my pre cycle T was in the 250ish... then I got bloodwork about 8 weeks after SERMS and it was 200... now im on TRT (not because of the cycle, it was just time)

If it were me, I wouldn't short change myself on PCT. I would run it for 4-5 weeks. But what do I know. I am on TRT and have never run PCT in my life.