Keeping Gains....

[JuiceAuthority]

^^^Here's another thing to consider when using Proviron. It is an androgen and as such, binds directly to the AR. Do you want to add another compound that competes for space on AR? Same with Masteron.

 

[burlyman]

use less test and throw in proviron or masteron to lower shbg.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I don't think he's here to get good advice that would be effective if put into practice, but simply spread his mistaken theories based on bad experiences.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I don't think he's here to get good advice that would be effective if put into practice, but simply spread his mistaken theories based on bad experiences.

Actually every experience, good or bad, is valid provided the experience being shared is one's honest assessment and not something they parrot. I happen to have a lot of experience using Proviron for all the stated and parroted benefits.

I even used proviron during PCT because of the one study posted all over boards showing it wasn't suppressive to HPTA at dosages as high as 150mgs/ed. There's just one flaw in that study; it was done on healthy males with normal test levels, not people who were suppressed from a cycle. My own personal experience and subsequent blood work confirmed my suspicions in that androgens are in fact suppressive to HPTA recovery.

 

[DADAWG]

^^^Here's another thing to consider when using Proviron. It is an androgen and as such, binds directly to the AR. Do you want to add another compound that competes for space on AR? Same with Masteron.

if we worried about androgens binding receptors people wouldnt stack a lot of the stuff that they do. there are plenty of receptors available for any reasonable dosed stack..

studies tend to be worthless. they are usually done on sick/old/injured people and the results dont compare to our community.

in the proviron study they were not running super test levels and in fact many were probablly testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidates , how could proviron free bound test that wasnt even there to begin with.

 

[burlyman]

Actually every experience, good or bad, is valid provided the experience being shared is one's honest assessment and not something they parrot. I happen to have a lot of experience using Proviron for all the stated and parroted benefits.

I even used proviron during PCT because of the one study posted all over boards showing it wasn't suppressive to HPTA at dosages as high as 150mgs/ed. There's just one flaw in that study; it was done on healthy males with normal test levels, not people who were suppressed from a cycle. My own personal experience and subsequent blood work confirmed my suspicions in that androgens are in fact suppressive to HPTA recovery.

I'd agree with your first point. I'd heard of the study regarding Proviron but would not normally try to recover while using it for the reasons you stated, unless I was dealing with gyno, which I have done in the past.

 

[str8rippinau]

Iv just finished reading through this thread and there is some great stuff in here, thanks for the read

Im on my first cycle now, and losing the gains i have made so far is something that im thinking about at this stage. Im not going to give an opinion on this stuff as i am a newbie, but i do know a lot about quality nutrition.

I can understand losing some of the gains through water retention, this is simple common sense. However, it would seem to me that most of the muscle mass would stay if eating and training was consistent.

We know that after 3 hours or so without food our body goes into a catabolic state and breaks down muscle tissue as a source of energy. If you were to continue eating properly and consistently, then you would remain in an anabolic state and thus not be sacrificing your hard earned gains. I thought eating 6 meals a day was staple for any bodybuilder, let alone someone taking steroids. I dont see how you would lose muscle if this remained in place.

 

[JuiceAuthority]

studies tend to be worthless. they are usually done on sick/old/injured people and the results dont compare to our community.

in the proviron study they were not running super test levels and in fact many were probablly testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) candidates , how could proviron free bound test that wasnt even there to begin with.

In general, I completely agree. Rarely do you find a study that's done on healthy humans without some preexisting medical condition. The test subjects are usually rats, mice or people with a medical condition that aren't responded to the current standard of care, whatever that may be.

The proviron study however was done on normal healthy male test subjects that were not taking exogenous testosterone injections. That's why many, myself included, jumped to the erroneous conclusion that Proviron was safe to use during PCT for preserving gains and enhancing libido function.

 

[DADAWG]

In general, I completely agree. Rarely do you find a study that's done on healthy humans without some preexisting medical condition. The test subjects are usually rats, mice or people with a medical condition that aren't responded to the current standard of care, whatever that may be.

The proviron study however was done on normal healthy male test subjects that were not taking exogenous testosterone injections. That's why many, myself included, jumped to the erroneous conclusion that Proviron was safe to use during PCT for preserving gains and enhancing libido function.

misunderstanding lol

i wasnt backing the use of proviron during pct , i think its a unnecessary risk to recovery.
i was pointing out the possible use of freeing bound test for those with superelevated test levels from a cycle.

as info IMO masteron is probablly better and dose more for you than proviron .

 

[mouse king]

use little amount of salbutamol with ketotifen in pct to save more muscle..along with HCG nolva etc...its anticatabolic and even anabolic little and it makes your cholesterol better..and has no suprresive affect on HPTA