Keto diet, lost weight, now I'm stalled

[Water23]

new to the forum so here goes...

34
6'
215lbs
Lifted weights for years and trained Muay Thai. Got side tracked by life and work and recently got back into it again.

Started keto and went from 260 down to 205. Daily stats until 3 weeks ago were follows...

1600 cals
Less than 30g carbs
150 G protein
Rest was healthy fats

Lifted 4 days a week and cardio 3 days a week

Stats now for 3 weeks are....

Var, 75 mg Ed
2100 cals
180 G protein
30 carbs 6 days a week, refuel on legs days at 150g
Remainder is fats
2 gals of water a day
Lift 5 days a week, sprints 5 days a week, hiit 2days a week, long distant runs 2 days a week on empty stomach.

Reason for var is to conserve as much lean tissue as possible while trying to cut up. And maybe gain a little mass. So I'm at 212 right now. Just trying to make sense of why I gained more weight or am I losing fat and gaining muscle. Any dieting advice?

Thanks sands

 

[Megatron28]

Do you realize that running Var by itself has shut down your natural testosterone production? Men need testosterone to be healthy. You are messing with things that you don't understand. You should have just taken a two week Keto break to reset your metabolism by ramping up the calories to maintenance.

If you are going to use AAS you need to include injectable testosterone.

 

[Water23]

Var is shown to reduce hpta function by 60% not a complete shutdown. Hcg will be started at 500 iu Ed 2 weeks prior to the last dose and pct followed after. So yes I have done my research on the compound I'm taking and understand that my gain would have been better if I did 500 mg of test Ew along with it, but I'm not worried about mass gains right now as I wanna cut the junk off me before I think of mass. Bf right now is at 16% using calipers.

So you recommend resetting at maintenance calories to reset my ********* rate. How long do you think is sufficient before I start back dieting?

 

[Water23]

Why does everyone say to include inj test. When all AAS are synthetic forms of test and all AAS shutdown/suppress hpta and test production. Even synthetic test will shutdown your own natural test production. So using inj test as a base is kinda pointless. Hcg is much better as it makes the leydig cells keep producing test naturally. Where as TRT doses are supplemental until your hpta recovers.... Or is this logic flawed?

 

[Megatron28]

Why does everyone say to include inj test. When all AAS are synthetic forms of test and all AAS shutdown/suppress hpta and test production. Even synthetic test will shutdown your own natural test production. So using inj test as a base is kinda pointless. Hcg is much better as it makes the leydig cells keep producing test naturally. Where as TRT doses are supplemental until your hpta recovers.... Or is this logic flawed?

How is it pointless? You have no testosterone in you. Var shuts you down. If you don't believe me, look below at my signature below for how to run blood work for $50. Let's see what your TT, LH, FSH and E2 are at.

Yes, exogenous testosterone shuts down your endogenous testosterone; but you are not absent testosterone. You are replacing it. What you have done is intentionally put yourself into a hypogonadal state. In other words, you have intentionally castrated yourself. Sure, PCT can help get you going again (most likely), but why would any male want to not have testosterone or estrogen (test aromatizes into estrogen) in them even temporarily?

Your logic is deeply flawed.

P.S. Calipers are very innacurate. Get a Body Pod Scan for $45.

 

[3J]

youre a 200lb guy eating at the caloric intake i give to my 120lb female clients to lose weight..

here is whats happened in the most simple terms

you've crash dieted.. leading to the triggering of a survival mechanism in your body that slows your metabolism down as much as it can as to preserve energy.. this also leads to ********* damage..

how quickly did you lose those 55lbs?? do you have any loose skin?

what do you expect to happen with you return to eating like a 200lb guy?? youre going to gain weight..

in all actuality, youre going to have to gain weight anyways.. ********* restart would require it..


youve cut too hard in other words

 

[Water23]

Pointless was a bad choice of words. It's not pointless if you just after sex drive, as hcg would be better as it cause you to produce your own test. And as stated above hcg is included in the cycle and will be started accordingly, under Drs supervision. Var doesn't shut you down, studies have shown. Point taken for the importance of test or hcg during cycle. Thanks for the discussion.

Back to original problem... I understand my metabolism may be slowed due to tHe keto diet. I was told to try carb cycling, but I feel like crab on carb up days.

 

[Water23]

Was typing when you responded 3j... Yes took about 6 weeks to lose the weight. Stomach area is loose

 

[3J]

Was typing when you responded 3j... Yes took about 6 weeks to lose the weight.

wow.. so you dropped 1lb a day roughly?? this is worse than i expected

 

[Megatron28]

hCG will keep your testosterone trickling. But not enough when you have shut yourself down. hCG is used during cycles to prevent/minimize testicular atrophy.

You are seriously misinformed and causing yourself serious harm.

 

[Water23]

How is it serious harm if I was running test I would be shutting down my hpta and causing my testicles to shrink, same as running anything else alone. Only thing is my libido would still work?


So how do I correct the metabolism and diet?

 

[Megatron28]

Testosterone and Esteogen do a lot of things in your body. From muscle to brain health. I used to be hypogonadal. I never want to feel like that again. It amazes me that anyone would intentionally do that to themselves.

Use Google to learn about the roles that test and Estrogen play in your body. And then ask yourself for how long you want to be devoid of them.

 

[Water23]

I understand the roles. What I don't get is how synthetic test is any different than a derivative. Var is a synthetic form of test, just like everything else including test c, p, e, and s.... It all shuts down or suppress natural test production.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. There's a lot of mixed info on this subject. One person says you can run anything alone and be fine while others are rampant with test as a base for everything. I know whenever aas is ran its an experiment as everyone reacts differently, but there has to be a basis on what truly works and why. There's a lot of athletes that run var alone for strength and cutting... And then there guys who don't run anything but test.

 

[Megatron28]

I understand the roles. What I don't get is how synthetic test is any different than a derivative. Var is a synthetic form of test, just like everything else including test c, p, e, and s.... It all shuts down or suppress natural test production.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. There's a lot of mixed info on this subject. One person says you can run anything alone and be fine while others are rampant with test as a base for everything. I know whenever aas is ran its an experiment as everyone reacts differently, but there has to be a basis on what truly works and why. There's a lot of athletes that run var alone for strength and cutting... And then there guys who don't run anything but test.

They both shut down the HPTA. That is not the issue.

Var is not testosterone. You don't have any testosterone in you. Without testosterone (or other aromatizable steroid) you don't have any estrogen either.

Var is not a perfect replacement for testosterone.

And no. Everyone doesn't react differently. The HPTA responses (LH, FSH, etc) to exogenous AAS are very predictable

 

[Water23]

I didn't mean hpta response was different but gains, recovery time etc...

Var is dihydrotestosterone. Yes I know it is not a direct replacement.

Ok just read an article about this.....

Test is not needed on a cycle to be effective although maximum effectiveness may not be achieved. Where's as test included helps cover all bases. Physiological function...

 

[3J]

so whats your plan now??

you know you cant take your calories lower, you shouldn't increase activity..

youre in a rump..

have you considered hiring a professional to help you do this right?? because up until now you havn't my man...

 

[halfwit]

I didn't mean hpta response was different but gains, recovery time etc...

Var is dihydrotestosterone. Yes I know it is not a direct replacement.

Ok just read an article about this.....

Test is not needed on a cycle to be effective although maximum effectiveness may not be achieved. Where's as test included helps cover all bases. Physiological function...

I'm frankly astounded that a person coming here for help is trying to assert that they know better when they are absolutely 100% wrong.

Your metabolism requires many different mechanisms to be in place to function correctly. One key part of this is a supply of testosterone. Not a derivative (anavar isn't a true derivative by the way, dianabol is), but the actual hormone that receptors will recognize and rely upon to continue doing their thing. Injectable testosterone is bio identical and fulfils this role when the HPTA has been shut down at the pituitary.

You're lacking this chief component combined with the fact that you put yourself into starvation mode by going with too few calories. HCG CANNOT override the negative feedback loop, which is engaged when exogenous androgens are detected. It simply keeps your testes from atrophying and allows other systems to carry on that require an LH signal to do so.

I really hope you do get a blood test, so you can see for yourself that anavar is absolutely 100% suppressive at "real" doses, which is NOT what the studies that are often misquoted used.

I too was hypogonadal like Tron, and I PROMISE you that ANY changes to body fat will be met with an incredible resistance, inevitably going backwards. I can tell you've done some homework, but not nearly enough - which is why it's great that you found this site as you have a fantastic nutritionist (3J) here in this thread, and have been hearing from a very educated person that not only understands keto, but the role AAS plays (Megatron28) in body recompositioning.

If I were you, I'd forget everything you think you know, and start over here. There are quite a few very successful men here that have done amazing things with their bodies. I'd also PCT, get that testosterone back online, and get a dialogue going with 3J.

This is coming from a guy that has lost over 250lbs of fat, and put on 65lbs of lean mass over the last few years with the aid of the fine gents here at ology.

My .02c

 

[hiram1st]

I'm frankly astounded that a person coming here for help is trying to assert that they know better when they are absolutely 100% wrong.

Your metabolism requires many different mechanisms to be in place to function correctly. One key part of this is a supply of testosterone. Not a derivative (anavar isn't a true derivative by the way, dianabol is), but the actual hormone that receptors will recognize and rely upon to continue doing their thing. Injectable testosterone is bio identical and fulfils this role when the HPTA has been shut down at the pituitary.

You're lacking this chief component combined with the fact that you put yourself into starvation mode by going with too few calories. HCG CANNOT override the negative feedback loop, which is engaged when exogenous androgens are detected. It simply keeps your testes from atrophying and allows other systems to carry on that require an LH signal to do so.

I really hope you do get a blood test, so you can see for yourself that anavar is absolutely 100% suppressive at "real" doses, which is NOT what the studies that are often misquoted used.

I too was hypogonadal like Tron, and I PROMISE you that ANY changes to body fat will be met with an incredible resistance, inevitably going backwards. I can tell you've done some homework, but not nearly enough - which is why it's great that you found this site as you have a fantastic nutritionist (3J) here in this thread, and have been hearing from a very educated person that not only understands keto, but the role AAS plays (Megatron28) in body recompositioning.

If I were you, I'd forget everything you think you know, and start over here. There are quite a few very successful men here that have done amazing things with their bodies. I'd also PCT, get that testosterone back online, and get a dialogue going with 3J.

This is coming from a guy that has lost over 250lbs of fat, and put on 65lbs of lean mass over the last few years with the aid of the fine gents here at ology.

My .02c

^^^^^^THIS!!

Never get tired of your posts

 

[Ziegler]

I didn't mean hpta response was different but gains, recovery time etc...

Var is dihydrotestosterone. Yes I know it is not a direct replacement.

Ok just read an article about this.....

Test is not needed on a cycle to be effective although maximum effectiveness may not be achieved. Where's as test included helps cover all bases. Physiological function...

Bahahahaha omg I'm gunna pee.

 

[3J]

there's alot wrong with this thread.... alot of misinformation and poor planning