One thing I don't understand is that conventional wisdom dictates that there are most certainly long term side effects from Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) that are very detrimental. The foundation for this speculative assessment seems to come from the fact that steroids elevate blood pressure and raise one's bad cholesterol, which will therefore lead to poor cardiovascular health. If used correctly and in moderation, I believe this logic to be faulty, simply because when a person cycles off steroids properly, his blood pressure and bad cholesterol levels should stabilize and go back to within range (at least in my case they do). I guess one could make the argument that fluxuating your BP and HDL throughout your life could eventually take its tole on the heart, but again, such an argument is completely speculative. I realy don't intend to be roiding past 50! Ha! Ha! Except for testosterone therapy! Now, I'm not a heavy steroid user. I do a cycle here and there -- once, twice a year. I gotta tell ya: All of my friends who don't use steroids all have high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Much higher than I could ever imagine mine being. They don't work out or have proper diets. It's that simple. Not working out and having a poor diet will kill you way before steroids used in conjunction with proper diet and exercise will. I'm no expert here, and I don't want to sound authoritative, but am I right or am I right? Comments?
Long Term Negative Effects -- Speculation!?
- Thread starter winslow22
- Start date
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
winslow22 said:
This is a great point, and I agree with you about all of it. It's just like the doctor in the realsports hbo special states: none of the effects of steroids are permenant or life threatening.
S
Skarhead1
Guest
I would agree. Not only with good dieting but a better choice of use.. often guys use too high of doses or harsh compounds. Winstrol is for certain going to throw your lipid panel out of whack. Tren can also do it as well for some people, my Bp and cholesterol have been nearly flawless -- but i just mostly use anavar and test.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
I believe the side effects of steroids are almost solely dependant on your genetics. So you figure out what works for you and go with it.
I think you are right especially to the extent that although there are some detrimental side effects to AS use, there are offsetting benefits of all that exercise and watching our diets.
My main concern personally is that my high density lipoprotein (HDL) ("good" cholesterol) counts are low every year. Although my total cholesterol is very low, since the HDL is very low, the ratio of LDL/HDL is high, which is a risk factor for heart disease. My question is, even with all this exercise I do, does this high ratio indicate that I'm depositing lots of plaque in my blood vessels and potentially setting the stage for a heart attack or stroke years down the road?
Obviously, this is a minor concern for me since I have chosen to stay "on" for 4 years despite this issue. However, it is my "main" concern even though my doc and I are generally happy with my overall health.
My main concern personally is that my high density lipoprotein (HDL) ("good" cholesterol) counts are low every year. Although my total cholesterol is very low, since the HDL is very low, the ratio of LDL/HDL is high, which is a risk factor for heart disease. My question is, even with all this exercise I do, does this high ratio indicate that I'm depositing lots of plaque in my blood vessels and potentially setting the stage for a heart attack or stroke years down the road?
Obviously, this is a minor concern for me since I have chosen to stay "on" for 4 years despite this issue. However, it is my "main" concern even though my doc and I are generally happy with my overall health.
It's not speculation.
I have experience with serious health issues that look like they may be Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) related. Earlier this year my total cholesterol was 397. Last month it was 425, with about zero of that being HDL.
I think it may have been tren that did it. No way to tell though.
First time blood draw, had been using:
2/3 g test decanoate/cypionate,
1/3 gr nandralone d,
1/2 g tren e / week plus
winstrol and dianabol, I don't even recall how much.
Stopped testosterone and the orals about 6 weeks before blood draw. Used tren and nandralone right up to blood draw.
Lipids were horrible. Total test was real high. My Dr. thought my lipid issues were from the test.
2nd blood draw:
had been using
1/3 g test p,
2/3 g nandralone d,
1/2 g tren e / week.
stopped that about 4 weeks before blood draw. No winstrol or dianabol at all this time.
Lipids whacked again. Total testosterone was low-normal (340 ng/dl). Dr. says
maybe it's not the testosterone now. Dr. also doesn't think the trenbolone
would still be in my system enough to keep my LDL so high after so much time
has passed. Estradiol was 200 (<50 is normal). I think that was the nandralone.
Tren e is the only Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) I kept the same both times.
Used letrozol the first time, armidex the second.
Used nolvadex & clomiphine both times.
Used cialis both times. Didn't even mention cialis to my Dr., didn't think of it.
The day I stopped the second time, I had experienced a couple of days of snow-white stool. Scared me and I immediate dropped everything. I think my lipids could be from
the tren but there is just no way to tell given how many things I was on.
On lipitor now. On testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 100 mg/wk of cyp. I would like to find out what did in my HDL, but I'm not sure I can. My Dr. says to stop everything & go to an endocrinologist and make sure my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose is dialed in correctly and see if he can't get to the root cause of why my test was low in the first place before I started all this.
I'm guessing he'll keep me at 100mg/wk as that keeps me at about 800ng/dl. I'm hoping I can get on HCG as my Dr. didn't know anything about HCG and didn't want to prescribe it. If so I can stop using clomiphine vs ball shrinkage (it works for that on or off cycle, in my experience). It occured to me that clomiphine could have some effect on lipids as well. No idea really.
I have experience with serious health issues that look like they may be Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) related. Earlier this year my total cholesterol was 397. Last month it was 425, with about zero of that being HDL.
I think it may have been tren that did it. No way to tell though.
First time blood draw, had been using:
2/3 g test decanoate/cypionate,
1/3 gr nandralone d,
1/2 g tren e / week plus
winstrol and dianabol, I don't even recall how much.
Stopped testosterone and the orals about 6 weeks before blood draw. Used tren and nandralone right up to blood draw.
Lipids were horrible. Total test was real high. My Dr. thought my lipid issues were from the test.
2nd blood draw:
had been using
1/3 g test p,
2/3 g nandralone d,
1/2 g tren e / week.
stopped that about 4 weeks before blood draw. No winstrol or dianabol at all this time.
Lipids whacked again. Total testosterone was low-normal (340 ng/dl). Dr. says
maybe it's not the testosterone now. Dr. also doesn't think the trenbolone
would still be in my system enough to keep my LDL so high after so much time
has passed. Estradiol was 200 (<50 is normal). I think that was the nandralone.
Tren e is the only Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) I kept the same both times.
Used letrozol the first time, armidex the second.
Used nolvadex & clomiphine both times.
Used cialis both times. Didn't even mention cialis to my Dr., didn't think of it.
The day I stopped the second time, I had experienced a couple of days of snow-white stool. Scared me and I immediate dropped everything. I think my lipids could be from
the tren but there is just no way to tell given how many things I was on.
On lipitor now. On testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) 100 mg/wk of cyp. I would like to find out what did in my HDL, but I'm not sure I can. My Dr. says to stop everything & go to an endocrinologist and make sure my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) dose is dialed in correctly and see if he can't get to the root cause of why my test was low in the first place before I started all this.
I'm guessing he'll keep me at 100mg/wk as that keeps me at about 800ng/dl. I'm hoping I can get on HCG as my Dr. didn't know anything about HCG and didn't want to prescribe it. If so I can stop using clomiphine vs ball shrinkage (it works for that on or off cycle, in my experience). It occured to me that clomiphine could have some effect on lipids as well. No idea really.
Was your cholesterol relatively high before you started using? Does your family have a history of heart disease and/or high cholesterol? My cholesterol shoots up a bit when I'm on, but like I said it tapers down when I cycle off. This is probably due to genetics mostly but I eat a fairly clean diet as well. Also, are you a habitual user. I.E., do you stay on for very long periods of time? Anyway, I do hope everything works out for you! Good luck!!!!
JayC
..in the making
This is just a small piece of the pie and my opinion, but I do believe genetics and pre-disposition plays a huge role in the long term effects. I believe that a normal/healthy male with family history of hi-Chol and an above avg level, is most likely going to get high chol when cycling. Hence, if you were born with heart issues or have a history of hormone related cancer (i.e. prostate) in your family, probably best not to even start.
Another piece (and I doubt many will disagree) is the abusers (i.e. most pro's), stacking high doses of 4-5 compounds while also taking a dozen other prescriptions for various things... all the time rarely taking a "real" break between cycles.
Another piece (and I doubt many will disagree) is the abusers (i.e. most pro's), stacking high doses of 4-5 compounds while also taking a dozen other prescriptions for various things... all the time rarely taking a "real" break between cycles.
Prostate cancer is so common in older males that steroids or not, our chances are relatively high that we'll have a brush with this if we live long enough. At age 50, males should start getting regular screenings as early detection greatly decreases the mortality rate. My grandpa got prostate cancer at age 73 and beat it. He's 89 now and healthy.
T
Thoms
Guest
Although we need not kid ourself and say steroids are harmless, you are correct stating a training man on moderate steroids will probably live longer than someone who doesn't work out at all. When longevity is concerned, I wouldn't want to trade a weekly Sustanon (sust) shot with a weekly big mac.
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
C18H22O2 said:
Bro, you were running test, tren, deca, Winstrol (winny), and dbol. You got your checkup done when you were still on cycle, did you really expect the numbers to be good?
Didn't expect them to be that bad. Besides, I had thought the orals were doing it the first time and I didn't use them the second time. Next checkup I will have been off for a while. Hopefully the LDL will start going down due to going off and the lipitor. He said cardio can raise HDL also.
ManOfMuscle said:
ManOfMuscle
Death Dealer
What was your diet like when your numbers were so bad? How big of a guy are you? 400 is definitely more than a little out of whack.
S
Skarhead1
Guest
Just like I said aboce Winstrol (winny) and tren can wreck HAVOC on your lipds... Winstrol (winny) will put your HDL in single digits and tren can possibly do the same as well for some. Stop usin ghte harsh compounds!!!!
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