Longest cycle and diminished returns

[darkwing86]

What are your guys take on this ? Anyone here try Test e for like 20 weeks? too long ? What would you guys say is a descent/longest length cycle for a test e cycle or test e and trene ? Is it individual or do u see diminished returns after a while ?

 

[Megatron28]

Are you blasting and cruising or running PCT afterwards?

I think you are always going to get diminished returns with any cycle. The first pound of muscle will always come more easily than the second pound of muscle all things being equal.

 

[halfwit]

If you continue to adjust for additional mass and any other requirements to continue adding lean mass - there shouldn't be any diminishing returns until myostatin becomes a problem.

Too many guys stay on, build up, and don't increase their intake. Eventually calories in vs calories out becomes a net zero equation, and maintenance happens instead of continued growth.

Sure, there are other factors - but I know plenty of folks that run cycles that long, and they continue to grow. (they do not PCT - so obviously not recommended for those that do) Just have to keep in mind that there comes a point where "noob gains" stops, and it does get harder to add mass relatively quickly.

I guess I'm saying the same thing as Tron, but in a long-winded manner, haha.

 

[jupiterlocal]

would it matter on what compounds you introduce durring long cycles to break the wall? I mean I know you cant do or shouldnt do 500/mg test a week for a yr straight, but, how does new compounds like tren or deca or anything else do to push thru that phase where you need to get off or cruise

 

[jozifp103]

If you continue to adjust for additional mass and any other requirements to continue adding lean mass - there shouldn't be any diminishing returns until myostatin becomes a problem.

Too many guys stay on, build up, and don't increase their intake. Eventually calories in vs calories out becomes a net zero equation, and maintenance happens instead of continued growth.

Sure, there are other factors - but I know plenty of folks that run cycles that long, and they continue to grow. (they do not PCT - so obviously not recommended for those that do) Just have to keep in mind that there comes a point where "noob gains" stops, and it does get harder to add mass relatively quickly.

I guess I'm saying the same thing as Tron, but in a long-winded manner, haha.

I've been reading up on myostatin a little bit. Different people have different levels obviously which can have great effects on their ability to build muscle and the rate of which they do so. Do you think there's a general time frame of staying on where myostatin starts to limit you? I mean, the pros never come off, and unless they can get their hands on REAL myostatin inhibitors, it must effect them to some extent no?

would it matter on what compounds you introduce durring long cycles to break the wall? I mean I know you cant do or shouldnt do 500/mg test a week for a yr straight, but, how does new compounds like tren or deca or anything else do to push thru that phase where you need to get off or cruise

I've read theories where people stay on for long periods and just keep switching compounds every so often to continue gaining. Obviously food intake is the biggest factor here but I can see how shocking your body with a new compound may help the gains continue.

 

[halfwit]

would it matter on what compounds you introduce durring long cycles to break the wall? I mean I know you cant do or shouldnt do 500/mg test a week for a yr straight, but, how does new compounds like tren or deca or anything else do to push thru that phase where you need to get off or cruise

I think the whole changing compounds during a long cycle thing is bro-science brought on by the myth of receptor down regulation. If all AAS increases nitrogen retention, which promotes protein synthesis - how could changing one form of AAS to another break a plateau?

Unless you're talking about say a year-long deal that's done in phases; say they are on test/dbol/deca for bulking, switch to just test and deca as a maintenance transition, then heading to test/tren/mast/anavar for a cut phase. That I can see, but not in like a 16-20 week deal.

I've been reading up on myostatin a little bit. Different people have different levels obviously which can have great effects on their ability to build muscle and the rate of which they do so. Do you think there's a general time frame of staying on where myostatin starts to limit you? I mean, the pros never come off, and unless they can get their hands on REAL myostatin inhibitors, it must effect them to some extent no?

I've read theories where people stay on for long periods and just keep switching compounds every so often to continue gaining. Obviously food intake is the biggest factor here but I can see how shocking your body with a new compound may help the gains continue.

Man, I wish I knew more about myostatin other than its what is our hard wall that cannot be overcome as far as rapid growth. I'd imagine that this is part of the genetic difference between pros and the rest of the population.

 

[Private_Joker0122]

I would imagine running test prop and working your way up to taking more would get better results I will never use test e or c that shit is nothing like fast acting stuff

 

[omgmike1]

If you continue to adjust for additional mass and any other requirements to continue adding lean mass - there shouldn't be any diminishing returns until myostatin becomes a problem.

Too many guys stay on, build up, and don't increase their intake. Eventually calories in vs calories out becomes a net zero equation, and maintenance happens instead of continued growth.

Sure, there are other factors - but I know plenty of folks that run cycles that long, and they continue to grow. (they do not PCT - so obviously not recommended for those that do) Just have to keep in mind that there comes a point where "noob gains" stops, and it does get harder to add mass relatively quickly.

I guess I'm saying the same thing as Tron, but in a long-winded manner, haha.

I always learn stuff from reading ur particular posts on here half. I REALLY think that u should make a thread called "BB/diet/AAS myths debunked" and list lots of common things ppl argue over and show some evid or atleast give ur view on it and try and get it stickied on here. Would be awesome and Ur the guy to do it too!

And u could get guys to post their Q's on myths and u answer them and post them on the top of the thread.

 

[halfwit]

I always learn stuff from reading ur particular posts on here half. I REALLY think that u should make a thread called "BB/diet/AAS myths debunked" and list lots of common things ppl argue over and show some evid or atleast give ur view on it and try and get it stickied on here. Would be awesome and Ur the guy to do it too!

And u could get guys to post their Q's on myths and u answer them and post them on the top of the thread.

Thanks for the compliment, but a HUGE part of what I've learned comes from other great contributors on this board. It would be pretty arrogant of me to take the credit - I'm just doing my part.

 

[trekrider215]

would it matter on what compounds you introduce durring long cycles to break the wall? I mean I know you cant do or shouldnt do 500/mg test a week for a yr straight, but, how does new compounds like tren or deca or anything else do to push thru that phase where you need to get off or cruise

My training partner and I have both been on at least 600-800mgs of Test E for about a year and a half straight now. Thats basically all he uses and he just stays at that. I will add tren, mast, and dianabol on top for a few months and thats seem to have kept gains moving forward. Im a competitive powerlifter so im only really concerned about strength, though and usually time that to peak for a meet.

Was it worth it? Yes and No. I dont do that anymore. I just came off a 3 months cruise of test at 250 wk and am starting back up but instead of constantly blasting like before, i will just blast and cruise. Albeit, i did put about 45lbs of bodyweight on in that year and a half, and at no point did i ever lose size or strength. I feel i probably could have gotten the same results by coming down to a trt dose fo a while.

I think staying on the higher dose of test made it easier to maintain what i would gain from running the tren,mast and dbol. Even when i cruised at 250 i didnt lose anything though. My diet has been the biggest key though. I train like a powerlifter but eat like a bodybuilder. And for the record i monitored bloods the whole time, that was the only factor that made me feel comfortable staying on like that.

 

[juced_porkchop]

What are your guys take on this ? Anyone here try Test e for like 20 weeks? too long ? What would you guys say is a descent/longest length cycle for a test e cycle or test e and trene ? Is it individual or do u see diminished returns after a while ?

I like 14-18wks IMO for test. tren 10 ish wks maybe add another compound half way to end

 

[3J]

Thanks for the compliment, but a HUGE part of what I've learned comes from other great contributors on this board. It would be pretty arrogant of me to take the credit - I'm just doing my part.

Too humble my friend! I'm always glad to see your responses to questions like this.. Always on point! One of the few people in the forum that has my stamp of approval in terms of awesome advice giving