looking to start a cycle.....but

[DemonGSXR]

I've been highly considering starting a cycle for cutting, and later on for bulking. I have researched doing so for a while, but it all still is a bit of a jumble to me. I'm currently 23 years old, and while I know this is "too young", I'd still like to a run a single cycle of a cut and a bulk. I'd like some help deciding where I can purchase, and what to purchase to do this, starting with a cut. I'm guessing that these natural and pro hormone types of steroids are safer than the real anabolics, right? I've heard people talking about therapy after cycles and things, and I am also curious about these, as well as how long a good cycle would be, as well as how long I should wait in between a cut cycle and a bulk cycle. It's all new to me and I'd really like to hear some input from those who can give me some good solid information. I've been lifting for about 4-5 years now, and would really like something that will really enhance my results. Thanks for the help!

 

[BigBlackguy]

I've been highly considering starting a cycle for cutting, and later on for bulking. I have researched doing so for a while, but it all still is a bit of a jumble to me. I'm currently 23 years old, and while I know this is "too young", I'd still like to a run a single cycle of a cut and a bulk. I'd like some help deciding where I can purchase, and what to purchase to do this, starting with a cut.

First off, I'm a representative for Primordial Performance. A lot of the guys that are going to help you in this forum represent a company. You can check their signatures (USUALLY, not always, sometimes they are unlisted) for their affiliations.

That's just a disclaimer, be wary of who you listen to in terms of WHERE to buy and WHAT PRODUCTS they suggest.

I'm guessing that these natural and pro hormone types of steroids are safer than the real anabolics, right?

Methylated steroids such as beastdrol, halodrol, epistane, dymethazine and others are harmful to the liver and heart. M-LMG and Trenazone are only mildly liver toxic and less harmful to the heart.

Pmag, 11-oxo, Furazabol (iirc), Stanodrol, Androhard, Androlean, Andromass (These three Andro products are made by the company I represent) are not liver toxic and have minimal effect on heart health.

Illegal, injectable steroids are often safer for you because they do not impact your heart/liver as much as the more harmful, legal Prohormones/Designer Steroids. Testosterone is one of the safest steroids to take. Trenbolone is one of the most harmful.

I've heard people talking about therapy after cycles and things, and I am also curious about these,

PCT (post cycle therapy) is the period immediately after a cycle in which you are using supplements (SERMs, AIs, Test Boosters) to restore your natural hormonal production.

as well as how long a good cycle would be, as well as how long I should wait in between a cut cycle and a bulk cycle.

A cycle can be anywhere from 2 weeks to... well, forever!

Ideally, you cycle for no more than 8 weeks at a time, unless you're using injectables. If you are using methyls or other liver/heart damaging steroids, you want to limit your usage to 4 weeks MAX.

So for instance:

Beastdrol/Androhard cycle:

Beastdrol: 2 caps a day for 3 weeks
Androhard: 6 caps a day for 4 weeks​

Then you go into post cycle therapy (pct), which lasts for 4 weeks.

OR, if you're using non liver harming steroids:

Andromass/Pmag cycle:

Andromass 6 caps for 8 weeks
Pmag 75-100mg per day for 8 weeks​

It's all new to me and I'd really like to hear some input from those who can give me some good solid information. I've been lifting for about 4-5 years now, and would really like something that will really enhance my results. Thanks for the help!

Post some stats up.

 

[DemonGSXR]

I think one of the most confusing things to me are that there are so many different products out there, and I'm not sure which all are used for what. I'm mainly wanting something that is effective and well, relatively safe to use for a good month or so to cut, and then later on, to bulk up.

What exactly are these post cycle therapy (pct) things (SERMS, AIs)

and some stats as of today

23 years old
6'1"
210lbs
Estimated 1 repmax
bench: 365
squat: 445
deadlift: 410


Now, as far as the where you buy and what you buy, how do you know when going to the different side stores linked on this website, which exactly are the natural and which are the actual steroids? and are all non-injectable steroids just the pro hormones, or can you get steroids that are in a pill form, for that's what I'd much rather take.

 

[BigBlackguy]

AM I READY FOR PHS/AAS? - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums

T O R E M I F E N E - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums

Primordial Performance is a great place to start... we offer post cycle therapy (pct) products, Prohormones and other products.

Orbit Nutrition is another great website (and site sponsor) that offers a wide variety of products.

 

[07Lane40]

i would go with something thats been proven. find some products that have been mentioned in other threads (doesn't necessarily have to be on this site) and look at the results people get (GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND!!!). halodrol, superdrol, dimeth, epistle are all things that have been proven to work. just because its the "latest and greatest" doesn't mean it actually is. don't ever take some ones word on something just because they tell you so

research research research... and then research some more. its your body your talking about not something you can just throw away and start over. if you actually understand what you're putting into your body you'll be better off than just trusting someone who's your "friend"

DISCLAIMER: Not trying to start a flame war or direct this at anyone, this is just the approach i took and couldn't be happier.

 

[BigBlackguy]

i would go with something thats been proven. find some products that have been mentioned in other threads (doesn't necessarily have to be on this site) and look at the results people get (GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND!!!). halodrol, superdrol, dimeth, epistle are all things that have been proven to work. just because its the "latest and greatest" doesn't mean it actually is. don't ever take some ones word on something just because they tell you so

research research research... and then research some more. its your body your talking about not something you can just throw away and start over. if you actually understand what you're putting into your body you'll be better off than just trusting someone who's your "friend"

DISCLAIMER: Not trying to start a flame war or direct this at anyone, this is just the approach i took and couldn't be happier.

Very solid advice.

 

[DemonGSXR]

How do you know when buying these products which will go together effectively for say a bulk or a cut? And how do you know how much of the product to take? I think this is my biggest issue, deciding what to take that go together and how much of these that I'm supposed to take, and for how long basically.
When you take something such as this primordial, do you still take a post cycle therapy, even though they're supposed to be a safer, non damaging substance? Is the post therapy what stops you from getting gyno, and what sets your testosterone back at maintenance levels? Going with what I just said also, are most side effects that are associated with steroids more from prolonged use, or could two 4-8 week cycles with therapy and a break after the first cause me to have these said side effects?

I'm just curious what you normally associate with a cutting cycle, and also a bulking cycle, and where the prevention of side effects such as maybe estrogen inhibitor or a test booster that sets your body back into maintenance comes into play.

I appreciate the help, I've really been curious and wanting to do this, I just have never gotten up the nerve to join a forum and ask real people with the experience and knowledge.

 

[BigBlackguy]

I appreciate the help, I've really been curious and wanting to do this, I just have never gotten up the nerve to join a forum and ask real people with the experience and knowledge.

Problem is, we get these questions SO OFTEN at forums that they often go unanswered. But only because they used to get answered all the time, when people had patience

How do you know when buying these products which will go together effectively for say a bulk or a cut? And how do you know how much of the product to take? I think this is my biggest issue, deciding what to take that go together and how much of these that I'm supposed to take, and for how long basically.

It just takes time to get to know all the compounds. Cutting, it's best to have a non-aromatizing (ie, the compound does not convert to estrogen) steroid. Also, higher androgenic ratings are best on these steroids.

Suggestions:

Androhard 6 caps ED 4-6 weeks
Halodrol 60mg ED 4 weeks
Epistane/Havoc 40mg ED 4 weeks
Superdrol 10mg ED 3 weeks
11-oxo 600mg ED 6 weeks​

For bulking, you have a lot more leeway with compounds. If they can convert to estrogen, they can help you pack on the pounds and quick strength needed to add a lot of lean body mass.

Pheraplex 20mg ED 4 weeks
Andromass 6 caps ED 4 weeks
Dymethazine 30mg ED 4 weeks
Superdrol 10mg ED 3 weeks
Boladrol 6-8mg ED 4 weeks
​

There are other compounds, I can't think of them all at the moment.

When you take something such as this primordial, do you still take a post cycle therapy, even though they're supposed to be a safer, non damaging substance?

They won't damage your liver and are easier on the heart (ie, cholesterol levels, artery healthy) and will not shut you down as hard because they are natural metabolites that the body can process easily.

Yes, you still need a post cycle therapy (pct). Every steroid/pro hormone needs a post cycle therapy (pct) of some sort.

Is the post therapy what stops you from getting gyno, and what sets your testosterone back at maintenance levels?

An Aromatase inhibitor (AI) on cycle stops you from getting gyno (if you are getting a lot of estrogen conversion for some reason, like high dosed boladrol). post cycle therapy (pct) stops you from getting gyno from estrogen rebound after the cycle, and resets your bodies natural testosterone production.

Going with what I just said also, are most side effects that are associated with steroids more from prolonged use, or could two 4-8 week cycles with therapy and a break after the first cause me to have these said side effects?

Yes, prolonged use. 4-8 weeks and you should be able to recover well. There are no guarantees, if the body doesn't want to recover it's natural hormone levels, it won't. But most of the time it will.

 

[DemonGSXR]

Can you give me some recommended things to take as a post cycle therapy (pct)? I think that's also something that i wonder about, because when i look through posts and websites, i see people mention tons of different products and see lots of things listed as a post cycle therapy (pct), but what are the things that you want to make sure you take after a cycle?

So should you take certain post cycle therapy (pct) supplements during your cycle also? I've heard a lot of people say to take fish oils and some sort of liver support on cycles to protect your heart and liver. like you mentioned taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during a cycle. Would I only want take that if I am trying to cut, since those stop estrogen, and not take an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during a bulk because that will help put on mass? But then you also always make sure that you take a serm during your 4week post cycle therapy (pct) right?

One last thing, even though i'm probably already annoying you..haha. I've heard people talk about using pre cycle therapy supplements. Is this necessary? or should i just make sure to use certain things while on the cycle.

I'm a hands on/have to see it type learner unfortunately, so if you wouldn't mind giving me names of things that i can google and see exactly what you mean i'd greatly appreciate it.

and thank you B.B.G. i really appreciate the time and information you've given me. I want to make sure I'm educated with what I am doing before i do it.

 

[Good Grip]

Can you give me some recommended things to take as a post cycle therapy (pct)? I think that's also something that i wonder about, because when i look through posts and websites, i see people mention tons of different products and see lots of things listed as a post cycle therapy (pct), but what are the things that you want to make sure you take after a cycle?

So should you take certain post cycle therapy (pct) supplements during your cycle also? I've heard a lot of people say to take fish oils and some sort of liver support on cycles to protect your heart and liver. like you mentioned taking an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during a cycle. Would I only want take that if I am trying to cut, since those stop estrogen, and not take an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) during a bulk because that will help put on mass? But then you also always make sure that you take a serm during your 4week post cycle therapy (pct) right?

One last thing, even though i'm probably already annoying you..haha. I've heard people talk about using pre cycle therapy supplements. Is this necessary? or should i just make sure to use certain things while on the cycle.

I'm a hands on/have to see it type learner unfortunately, so if you wouldn't mind giving me names of things that i can google and see exactly what you mean i'd greatly appreciate it.

and thank you B.B.G. i really appreciate the time and information you've given me. I want to make sure I'm educated with what I am doing before i do it.

Ill chime in as im sure bbg will also later on. Using support supps such as fish oil are definatly beneficial and liver protectant supps are a must ( when using a methylated ph ) before a cycle as well as during and after. AI's are suggested on lengthier cycles, but if your using something like Androhard wich naturally mitigates estrogen levels as one of its benefits, then imo you wont need an AI.

It sounds like your grasping the basics so far, so thats a good sign. As far as what post cycle therapy (pct) supps to mention ill just get straight to the top. Primordial Performance's Testosterone Recovery Stack is highly regarded as the best otc post cycle therapy (pct) not just among the Pp reps, but with the forum community as well. The Trs will help address just about all facets of a post cycle therapy one could ask for. Throw in TCF-1 ( DAA ) for an even better overall recovery otc wise.