Lowest Dose Of Test That Will Still Provide Gains?

[Xtreme57]

Ok, so i'm gonna most likely go w/test as a first cycle, but the more i think about it, i'm really worried about side fx. My body is pretty sensitive to most other stimulants/drugs/supplements i've used in the past, and i'm not that big of a guy to begin with (5'8, ~160lbs, low bf %, get up to 175lb when bulking). So i don't know, i was thinking of doing something like 500mg of test a week, but even that may be a lil much for me at first.

So i thought i'd ask for some advice. Could i expect any gains from doing something lower, like ~250mg a week of test? i know there will be some guys that will say it's a waste, but i would rather have far fewer side effects and gain less, than lots of gains w/lots of negative side effects. 250 is still a crap load higher than normal male test production... what do you think?

 

[GymLift]

Nothing wrong with 250mg/week.

160 lbs. How much protein do you take in every day?

 

[Swoleburn]

I think you can still make good gains on 250mg of test a week especially if this is your first cycle. I have seen people gain 30lbs off 250mg of test. It would not be a waste. I would just run it 10-12 weeks and you will be good to go. Make sure your diet and training are in check.

 

[xcfmember]

I'm doing 250mg e5d right now and just started wk # 5. So I'll see how it goes and if I should of went higher or not. It was about a 50/50 split in opinions on what dose to take when I asked the same ? on a couple of boards. Oh and I'm about the same stats as you, 5"7" and about 165.

 

[Xtreme57]

I think you can still make good gains on 250mg of test a week especially if this is your first cycle. I have seen people gain 30lbs off 250mg of test. It would not be a waste. I would just run it 10-12 weeks and you will be good to go. Make sure your diet and training are in check.

that is very good to hear... would doing a 250/week cycle also reduce the side effects? I'm really concerned about my hair, i'm takin propescia already, and i'd rather keep my hair and not gain that much than lose my hair and be enormous.

 

[Xtreme57]

I'm doing 250mg e5d right now and just started wk # 5. So I'll see how it goes and if I should of went higher or not. It was about a 50/50 split in opinions on what dose to take when I asked the same ? on a couple of boards. Oh and I'm about the same stats as you, 5"7" and about 165.

Is this your first cycle? If so definitely keep me posted, i'm very interested to hear how it goes for you considering we're about the same size...

 

[xcfmember]

Is this your first cycle? If so definitely keep me posted, i'm very interested to hear how it goes for you considering we're about the same size...

Ya its my first cycle.
test-e (galenika's) 250mg/e5d wk 1-10 (or 12 depending on how I feel at wk 10)
letro .60mg/ed wk 1-10 (started about 2wks before cycle, will taper off)
nolva 10 mg/ed wk 1-10 (stopped using during wk 3 because of headaches)
finasteride 1mg/ed (started taking it about 2 months before cycle and will continue indefinitely)

I will taper the letro off and start taking nolva during the 2wks in between the cycle and pct. This is to avoid estrogen rebound from the letro.

pct wks 13-16
clomid 150mg/ed for 9/d, 100mg/ed for next 10/d, 50 mg/ed till end
nolva 20mg/ed throughout
trib 3g/ed throughout

 

[GymLift]

I'm really concerned about my hair, i'm takin propescia already, and i'd rather keep my hair and not gain that much than lose my hair and be enormous.

Then you best not cycle. I'm totally serious: Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycling, in general, is very bad for people that are prone to MPB.
.
.Propecia (finasteride) significantly reduces your DHT levels. DHT is an important male hormone. Many men seemingly don't have any apparent issues taking finasteride, but some people do. While taking the finasteride, watch for gyno or symptoms of hypogonadism (low energy, low libido, ED, etc).

 

[temetrepo]

250 a week should be fine and sides should be low if any. Your diet and work out schedule will decide how much you gain during the process.

 

[Xtreme57]

250 a week should be fine and sides should be low if any. Your diet and work out schedule will decide how much you gain during the process.

That's exactly what i wanted to hear. Low sides, and if it's dependent on my workout schedule and diet, that's exactly how i want it. I've been dedicated for 8 years now, and i've tried everything to bust through this plateau, changing diet, reps, routines, days, number of sets, added protein, calories, carbs, fats, etc. I have been determined thus far, and if i know that i have the extra edge, then i will work even harder.

Any specific test you'd recommend? I'm not a fan of prop, from the super-pain i hear it causes... so i'm not sure, i guess enath? How much post cycle therapy (pct) should i be thinking about at 250mg/week?

 

[GymLift]

Any specific test you'd recommend? I'm not a fan of prop, from the super-pain i hear it causes... so i'm not sure, i guess enath? How much post cycle therapy (pct) should i be thinking about at 250mg/week?

Testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate. Standard PCT. Pick Clomid or Nolva or both.

 

[GymLift]

I've been dedicated for 8 years now, and i've tried everything to bust through this plateau, changing diet, reps, routines, days, number of sets, added protein, calories, carbs, fats, etc. I have been determined thus far, and if i know that i have the extra edge, then i will work even harder.

You've been working out for eight years and you weigh 160 lbs? Say what you want, at least one of the following is off:
1) Diet
2) Training (this includes rest)
3) Hypogonadism (this is unlikely)

 

[Golgo13]

My HRT dose is 200mg a week... I get no gains now from that but when I started I did.

 

[Thoms]

HRT 250mg/week...never had gains. But my test is still lower than my grandpa.

 

[simpllyhuge]

why not just try the 500 and then u can drop it if u dont like it.

 

[BlackVR]

you will def grow off of 250mgs of test

 

[Stone]

you will def grow off of 250mgs of test

This isn't something that you can say in good faith. Maybe something along the lines of you SHOULD grow of 250/wk. I would say go 500/wk as I have never seen much of a difference in side between the two and you SHOULD notice a difference as far as gains. If you are concerned about sides keep up on you ancilliaries and I wouldn't forsee any problems. Another thing to consider is ester weight. If your using enanthate your only gonna be getting about 180mg/wk of TESTOSTERONE, and at that low dose, every mg counts. Maybe you should at least reconsider starting with prop @ 500mg/wk that way any sides that pop up will be more easily controlled.

 

[GymLift]

He apparently can't grow without gear, so that is a bad sign as to his potential with gear. He needs to eat more, I suspect.

 

[Xtreme57]

He apparently can't grow without gear, so that is a bad sign as to his potential with gear. He needs to eat more, I suspect.

No no, i should clairfy... ok i'm 5'8, but since it's summer, i have been dieting down to get leaner - hence the very bantum weight of 160. Around october/early november, i starting eating to put on size and more muscle.. however for the last few years, i can't get any higher than about 175-180lbs... and my bf gets alot higher than i'd like it. I know it comes w/the territory, but i always feel like it's more fat than muscle... but that's just my own interpretation. My plateau is about 175lbs.. i just can't get any bigger than that despite what have been my best efforts - which leads me to believe it's probably about my genetic potential (not a very jacked family). i'm looking to use this cycle to bust through that barrier once and for all.

My problem is that its going to be my first cycle, and to be honest, i guess i'm just a vain SOB, but i want to keep my hair. So i'd rather sacrifice some size and keep my hair than the other way around.

This choice has lead me to the 250 vs 500 mg/week of test debate. I just want to add as much lean hard muscle as i can, minimizing water weight and sides as much as i possibly can. I know it's the line that everyone wants to walk, but like i said i'd rather gain a little less to be a little safer when it comes right down to it.

The summary of all this are two basic questions 1) which dose would best suit the above parameters, and 2) which form of test will help me add the most lean mass per ml without adding excess water weight?

I hope that clarifies things a little better. Any and all advice is more than appreciated. It's going to be my first cycle, and i just want to do it right.

 

[AussieThunder]

HRT 250mg/week...never had gains. But my test is still lower than my grandpa.

How can your test levels be so low on a dose of 250mg test per week? How old are you? Guys in their 60s can generally get their test levels into the upper range of normal for a young man on just 150mg test enth/cyp per week.