Maximum gains for extreme cases? A study.

[Nauthiz616]

Alright I know I will get flack for this, but this is actually for a study / journalism / scientific. We are doing a steroid cycle and want to see what the maximum extremes are. The participant is a man that is 5'10 130lbs, he trained several years ago for 2 years straight and came down with a illness that effected muscle and nervous system growth (lost about 35lbs). He is a natural ecto hard gainer, with probably 13% body fat.

He will be training 4 days a week with a professional strong man (versed in steroids) doing 500mg test per week, we are also putting him under doctor super vision. He will be eating 4,500-5000 calories per day. I am wondering what the opinion is of the forum of what the maximum change he could make would be for the story.

AS noted:

• 
  5 years ago he weighed 40lbs more and trained for 2 years (lost it all to illness so may have some form of muscle memory)
  Natural Ectomorph and skinny, natural weight is probably 130lbs
  10-12 week Cycle has been training 2 months now to prepare

I understand the flack that may be put into this story, but there is a reason behind it medically and other reasons. What do you guys think the max he could gain for LBM? 20lbs? 30lbs?

 

[Austinite]

What country?

 

[308power]

Pharma grade gear?

 

[Nauthiz616]

Yes Pharma Grade, USA.

 

[Austinite]

Yes Pharma Grade, USA.

what pharma?

 

[Austinite]

Anyway... 20lbs lbm is impossible. Not even 15, likely not even 10.

 

[Nauthiz616]

Anyway... 20lbs lbm is impossible. Not even 15, likely not even 10.

Even with muscle memory and someone who is considered "underweight"? This could be a combination of memory, noob gains, coming from a 3-4 year untrained state and 10lbs under "lower normal" BMI. Also, this would be considered his "first cycle".

 

[Nauthiz616]

what pharma?

Not sure. This is going to be obtained by the strong man trainer, as the prescription will not be given by his doctor for whatever reason although he needs it. Doctor will be notified and regular check ups for monitoring. The story is to follow a 30-35lb gain over 6 months. He will be only cycling for 3-4 of these 6 months.

Nov-Dec Prep of diet and routine
Dec-march Cycle
April - PCT begins

 

[Austinite]

Even with muscle memory and someone who is considered "underweight"? This could be a combination of memory, noob gains, coming from a 3-4 year untrained state and 10lbs under "lower normal" BMI. Also, this would be considered his "first cycle".

No. Not going to happen. Muscle memory has been studied, and that's not how it works.

Interesting to see that you found a doctor willing to lose his license over this. Risky business. What exactly is your position in this study?

 

[Nauthiz616]

No. Not going to happen. Muscle memory has been studied, and that's not how it works.

Interesting to see that you found a doctor willing to lose his license over this. Risky business. What exactly is your position in this study?

Well the way it's being approached is. Person in case study, is taking steroids. Doctor was notified, told doctor he wants to come in for check ups etc. The person basically decided this is what they want to do, I am shadowing his story.

 

[Austinite]

How old is the subject?

 

[Austinite]

I'm usually really good at delivering bad news, gently. But I just can't take this. I don't appreciate liars.

 

[OnlyTheGreat]

Anyway... 20lbs lbm is impossible. Not even 15, likely not even 10.

with my first cycle i picked up 20kg. after i dropped some water i was still 16kg up. i reckon i picked up about 8kg of lbm because i cut after cycle to a much lower bf than i was even before cycle and im still 6kg heavier.

not trying to put you down or something, you have been in the game a lot longer than me and are a lot more knowledgeable than myself. just thought i'd share

 

[Austinite]

with my first cycle i picked up 20kg. after i dropped some water i was still 16kg up. i reckon i picked up about 8kg of lbm because i cut after cycle to a much lower bf than i was even before cycle and im still 6kg heavier.

not trying to put you down or something, you have been in the game a lot longer than me and are a lot more knowledgeable than myself. just thought i'd share

"I reckon"... That tells me you did not have a dexa scan and/or bod pod assessment to determine LBM vs. water and fat. I can provide you with records since 1998. It's not so much about knowledge, it's about proof. Calipers and omron handhelds are far from accurate. In fact, they're extremely terrible at measure.

 

[Nauthiz616]

Subject is 27.

 

[Austinite]

Subject is 27

Stop the theatrics brother...

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/647507-prohormones-vs-test.html

 

[Nauthiz616]

bump

 

[tbonexl]

I'm calling bullshit..

 

[OnlyTheGreat]

"I reckon"... That tells me you did not have a dexa scan and/or bod pod assessment to determine LBM vs. water and fat. I can provide you with records since 1998. It's not so much about knowledge, it's about proof. Calipers and omron handhelds are far from accurate. In fact, they're extremely terrible at measure.

no i didn't have either. i just estimated through the mirror haha. i still have a long road of learning ahead of me.

 

[prisonsex]

Austin is right boys. You may gain 20lbs in a cycle but its not lean muscle. It's water, fat and muscle...I mean seriously, lets use some common sense. If you are 200lbs and you gained 20lbs in a 12 week cycle and you ran 4 cycles you would be 280 in a year.....think about. It's not going to happen. If it were possible we would all be walking around looking like Cutler or Heath. The reality is if you can net 6-8lbs a year you are kicking ass.

I know it's a heart breaker and once you accept this the better off you will be. Some of you will press on but; once this is accepted most will give up and go back to crossfit.

The only way to accurately measure you gains is by starting at a body fat percentage running your cycle and returning to your body fat percentage. The way I do it is: June 1 I get as low as I can go without killing myself 7-8% this is my weigh in point I the spend the next year leading up to the following June 1 at which point I must be as close a reasonable possible to the previous years body fat %. The difference is my 12 month gains. Usually between 5-9lbs. Why June 1 simple this marks the beginning of shirt off season and I like to stay as ripped as possible until middle of August.