My 1st Steroid Cycle. Testosterone-Enanthate, Aromasin & Nolvadex.

[messymatt]

Welcome,

As the heading states... My 1st Steroid Cycle.

I'll be using this thread to update my progress over the next 16 weeks or so, serving predominantly as a not-so-personal diary.

If you have something constructive to say, please feel free to join the thread.


The original cycle I had intended doing when I started this thread...

I have only left this here so all the following posts in this thread make sense.

Week 1-10 Testosterone-Enanthate: 600mg per week @ 300mg twice weekly
Week 1-10 Aromasin: 10mg EOD
Week 10-12 Take nothing and let the Testosterone-Enanthate begin to clear out
Week 12-14 Nolvadex 40mg per day
Week 14-16 Nolvadex 20mg per day

The amended cycle I will actually be completing based on advice found further in this thread...

Week 1 -10 Testosterone-enanthate: 600mg per week @ 300mg twice weekly
Week 3 -12 Aromasin: 10mg EOD (finish using 2 days before post cycle therapy (pct) starts)
Week 13 -16 Nolvadex 20mg ED & clomid 50mg ED

Starting stats...

Age: 27
Height: 5ft 8"

Weight: 141lbs
Lean Body Mass: 120.1lbs
Body Fat: 20.9lbs or 14.8%

Goals...

Add 18.5 Lbs Of Lean Body Mass
Lose 5.5 Lbs Of Body Fat

Forcast Result...

Weight: 154lbs
Lean Body Mass: 138.6lbs
Body Fat: 15.4lbs or 10%

 

[river]

27
5'-8"
141lbs ??

What's your diet like? I can't help but think you could do a little better than 141 lbs naturally.

 

[Elliotmax]

I think you're better off taking 250mg E3D. Your blood levels will be more stable, and you'll be @ about 580mg/ week.

And if you really weigh 141lbs, the LAST thing you should be worried about is putting on fat.

Your only goal should be: EAT EVERYTHING IN SITE

 

[messymatt]

27
5'-8"
141lbs ??

What's your diet like? I can't help but think you could do a little better than 141 lbs naturally.

The diet is good, could be cleaner at times, but I'm not too concerned right now as long as I get my calorific intake. My macros-nutrients are relatively consistent.
I'm 5 weeks into my 12 week transformation program, but I have not yet started the cycle. So far I have added 4lbs of LBM in the 5 weeks unassisted without AAS.
I could better 141lbs naturally and without question I could achieve my AAS goals naturally, given enough time, but considering 147lbs is the heaviest I've ever been, I'm starting here.

 

[messymatt]

I think you're better off taking 250mg E3D. Your blood levels will be more stable, and you'll be @ about 580mg/ week.

And if you really weigh 141lbs, the LAST thing you should be worried about is putting on fat.

Your only goal should be: EAT EVERYTHING IN SITE

That looks a sensible suggestion. The vials are 10ml/300mg. I'd have to figure out the correct point on the barrel. Yeah, not worried about the fat pal.

Anyone else care to add to this dosing suggestion?...

 

[Elliotmax]

If you're 5 weeks in, just keep doing what you're doing, don't think you'll notice a difference pinning e3d at this point.

What else did you notice other than the weight increase during these 5 weeks? Can you give a brief week by week break down of your experience so far? People would wanna know.

 

[messymatt]

If you're 5 weeks in, just keep doing what you're doing, don't think you'll notice a difference pinning e3d at this point.

What else did you notice other than the weight increase during these 5 weeks? Can you give a brief week by week break down of your experience so far? People would wanna know.

I'm 5 weeks into my transformation dude, not 5 weeks into my cycle.
I'll post stats, motivation, any sides I experience, the lot, when I start.
1st pin is today or tomorrow.

 

[Elliotmax]

I'm 5 weeks into my transformation dude, not 5 weeks into my cycle.
I'll post stats, motivation, any sides I experience, the lot, when I start.
1st pin is today or tomorrow.

Good luck then. I'm running the same cycle 250mg e3d and I was recommended to extend it to 12 weeks. If you have enough gear go for 12, you'll have more fun

 

[Gregory450]

Thanks for sharing your 1st cycle with us Messymatt!

I'm glad I have found your thread because I am also on my first cycle and I am also using Test Enanthate. In my case I take 250 mg x 2 every week.

I've had my first shot 7 days ago and had my 3rd shot yesterday. I still don't feel anything. I thought it would kick-in very fast since it is my first cycle but apparently it takes up
to 5 weeks to show results. It seems this was your case.

May I ask you why you choose to use Aromasin during your cycle and Novaldex on your post cycle therapy (pct)? Some people say to use Novaldex during the cycle and others say to use an AI.
I am confused...

 

[Cowboyman]

May I ask you why you choose to use Aromasin during your cycle and Novaldex on your post cycle therapy (pct)? Some people say to use Novaldex during the cycle and others say to use an AI.
I am confused...[/QUOTE]
I too am a Lil confused in this area an would really appreciate for
some to clear all that up or a least try. Is it just a preference?

 

[Elliotmax]

May I ask you why you choose to use Aromasin during your cycle and Novaldex on your post cycle therapy (pct)? Some people say to use Novaldex during the cycle and others say to use an AI.
I am confused...

Using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) is milder with less sides. If you're using an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) and gyno sides still get out of control, you can use nolva for a few days to combat that. But Nolva is best kept for PCT unless you really have to.

 

[messymatt]

Good luck then. I'm running the same cycle 250mg e3d and I was recommended to extend it to 12 weeks. If you have enough gear go for 12, you'll have more fun

Thank you!

 

[messymatt]

May I ask you why you choose to use Aromasin during your cycle and Novaldex on your post cycle therapy (pct)? Some people say to use consideredring the cycle and others say to use an AI.
I am confused...

[/QUOTE] I too am a Lil confused in this area an would really appreciate for
some to clear all that up or a least try. Is it just a preference?[/QUOTE]

I chose Aromasin based on the research I have conducted.
Both can be used both during a cycle and as post cycle therapy. Aromasin is the dearer of the two and also the more potent. Nolvadex, is considered the safer as it doesn't completely kill estrogen, which can be dangerous.
Aromasin is an aromatase inhibitor which will not only prevent unwanted sides but will also minimise unwanted water retention, giving a much dryer look. Without the Aromasin you will retain much more water which you would only loose on completion of the cycle.
Me personally, I would rather know throughout the cycle accurate measurements of the real lean body mass gains I am likely to keep.

Nolvadex technically is not an anti-estrogen inhibitor however it is supposedly very effective at minimising sides and is commonly used as part of post cycle therapy.

 

[messymatt]

Thanks for sharing your 1st cycle with us Messymatt!

I'm glad I have found your thread because I am also on my first cycle and I am also using Test Enanthate. In my case I take 250 mg x 2 every week.

I've had my first shot 7 days ago and had my 3rd shot yesterday. I still don't feel anything. I thought it would kick-in very fast since it is my first cycle but apparently it takes up
to 5 weeks to show results. It seems this was your case.

May I ask you why you choose to use Aromasin during your cycle and Novaldex on your post cycle therapy (pct)? Some people say to use Novaldex during the cycle and others say to use an AI.
I am confused...

I have not yet started my cycle my friend. Today should be my first jab.
Testosterone Enanthate is a slow releasing ester, therefore you should only start to physically 'feel' like you're on gear at around the 3rd week. It isn't instantly noticeable like some other compounds.

 

[Gregory450]

Thanks for the clarification!

Another question for you...Why on week 10-12 you don't take anything? What's the logic behind this?

 

[messymatt]

Thanks for the clarification!

Another question for you...Why on week 10-12 you don't take anything? What's the logic behind this?

Because the last pin on week 10 will mean I will still have 'active' testosterone in my system up until week 12 Greg. Probably even longer. An awful lot more than I would produce naturally.
To fully understand the duration the compound is 'active' in my system we need to understand the 'halflife' of the compound. Same applies for any steroid.

 

[Gregory450]

Because the last pin on week 10 will mean I will still have 'active' testosterone in my system up until week 12 Greg. Probably even longer. An awful lot more than I would produce naturally.
To fully understand the duration the compound is 'active' in my system we need to understand the 'halflife' of the compound. Same applies for any steroid.

Ok I understand. But Nolvadex works against the bonding of estrogen with receptors. If you have no more ''active'' testosterone in your body, there are almost no chances of aromatization (androgen converted into estrogen) anymore. What's the point of Novaldex at that point?

 

[DrHiney]

Continue taking aromasin until a few days before you begin post cycle therapy (pct). Its half life is less than a day and levels will drop quickly once you stop taking it. Also it may not be necessary for you to begin taking it immediately with your first injection. Your serum test levels will not level out to 600mg/week until 3-4 weeks in. Therefore, there will not be much testosterone beginning to aromatize until around this point (however it is always great to have it on hand) however if you decide to take it anyways, it will not hurt anything.
You need to get a hold of clomid(clomiphene citrate). This is one of the largest parts of post cycle therapy (pct). It will start the testes reproducing testosterone naturally(which you have been suppressing for 12 weeks) especially if you are not running any hCG on cycle. Nolva is great for preventing a rebound of estrogen after your testosterone levels have fallen, but you will lose most of your gains without it. Without using clomid you will most likely not return to your natural testosterone levels for months and your HPTA could send other hormones out of control trying to recover.

Ok I understand. But Nolvadex works against the bonding of estrogen with receptors. If you have no more ''active'' testosterone in your body, there are almost no chances of aromatization (androgen converted into estrogen) anymore. What's the point of Novaldex at that point?

The point of post cycle therapy (pct) is to prevent a rebound of estrogen(nolvadex) and to start the testes reproducing testosterone naturally(clomid). The HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary testicular axis) works on a negative feedback system. When introducing high levels (or even just above natural levels) of exogenous testosterone, the HPTA will not produce in endogenous test.
During his weeks 10-12 here will still be a high amount of exogenous test in his system so the HPTA will not produce any testosterone on its own. There is still possibility of gyno during these two weeks (which is why I recommended continuing aromasin until beginning post cycle therapy (pct)) however an anti-estrogen and an aromatase inhibitor are not interchangeable.
Nolva should never be used on cycle except for extreme cases of gynecomastia. Also note that inhibiting aromatization of testosterone to estrogen will prevent some muscle gain (as well as water retention). So if you are ok with not utilizing the full possibilty of gains from this cycle then you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise you can lay of the Aromatase inhibitor (AI) until you begin to feel symptoms of gyno.

 

[DrHiney]

Also it isn't necessary to taper your dosage of Nolva during post cycle therapy (pct). A proper and simply post cycle therapy (pct) would be as follows:
Nolva 20mg ED for 4 weeks
Clomid 50mg ED for 4 weeks.
The pharmacokenetics of both drugs do not show any linear benefit with an increased dosage and a greater effect. However this is the research done on the pharmaceutical brands (should be the same as UGL products); also these studies are all done in women for which the drugs were specifically designed. I do not feel that men taking these would mean you would need to increase the dose.

 

[messymatt]

Also it isn't necessary to taper your dosage of Nolva during post cycle therapy (pct). A proper and simply post cycle therapy (pct) would be as follows:
Nolva 20mg ED for 4 weeks
Clomid 50mg ED for 4 weeks.
The pharmacokenetics of both drugs do not show any linear benefit with an increased dosage and a greater effect. However this is the research done on the pharmaceutical brands (should be the same as UGL products); also these studies are all done in women for which the drugs were specifically designed. I do not feel that men taking these would mean you would need to increase the dose.

Thank you Dr Hiney. Some excellent input there. Answered a few questions I had anticipated asking further down the line.

Please stay tuned for updates on my progress.

Matt.