My first 'proper' test cycle.

[Inspectornorse]

My stats
90kg / ~200lbs
10% bf
Lifting for 2.5 years.
Taken a cycle of winstrol & anavar before but now looking to do a cycle properly after doing some proper research.

Goals
Put on as much lean muscle with as little fat and water retention as possible.

Cycle Supplements
Week 1-10 test E 275mg twice a week / so 550mg a week
Week 1-4 winstrol & anavar 50mg each ED
Week 5-10 arromasin 12.5mg ED (if needed)
Week 1-10 proviron 25mg ED (though may discontinue on week 5)

PCT
Nolva 20mg ed for 2 weeks, 10 ed for a further 2 weeks.
Clomid 150mg first day, 25mg ED for 2 weeks after.
Arromasin 12.5 ED (if needed)
Ciallis (if needed.. )

Health support
Week 1-5 NAC 1200mg ED (for liver)
Animal Flex 1 pack ED (joints)

Workouts
5 or 6 times a week, hitting every muscle group once or twice at least.
Cardio (running) 1 or 2 times a week.

Diet
This is where I need help.
Too put on as much lean muscle without fat, would it be wise for me to be in a calorie deficit or maintenance?
I will obviously be consuming ~250g of protein throughout 5 CLEAN meals a day with as little fat as possible, but how many carbs is recommended ? I usually consume 230ish on a cut or 300ish for maintenance but I'm guessing this likely to be needed to be increased due to the juice?
Just need to get an idea for how many calories I should start in taking.

Also you'll notice I've put *if needed* by the arromasin, this will only be used to help prevent water retention (and gyno). Any other tips to help cut out bloat and water retention?

I've also noticed people state that getting blood work panels done if a good idea. But investigation has shown in my area (London) it's going to cost me almost £1000. Anyone got any ideas for this?

Sorry if any of this seems newbie or ill educated. Please bare with me I am still new to this.

 

[bustinass]

diet is messed up, you are falling for the age old myth: 'if i eat fat i will get fat'. this is proven to not be true. carbs make people fat, not fat. carbs raise insulin and shit goes downhill very fast

protein is WAY too high too, you can eat half and still grow and be beastly, i consume 120grams per day, easy

 

[Inspectornorse]

diet is messed up, you are falling for the age old myth: 'if i eat fat i will get fat'. this is proven to not be true. carbs make people fat, not fat. carbs raise insulin and shit goes downhill very fast

protein is WAY too high too, you can eat half and still grow and be beastly, i consume 120grams per day, easy

Thanks for the reply. So you're saying I should eat at the lower range of carbs, don't worry to much about fat. And cut down on the protein a bit?

 

[oldmusclemike]

OP you are wrong about AI's (Adex) it is used to control your Estrogen level. This is very important. There are many sides with high and as well too low Estrogen. Read about Estrogen and prolactin.
Use the AI right off the dock until PCT

 

[Inspectornorse]

OP you are wrong about AI's (Adex) it is used to control your Estrogen level. This is very important. There are many sides with high and as well too low Estrogen. Read about Estrogen and prolactin.
Use the AI right off the dock until PCT

Ok I will look up some more online info. Thanks

 

[bustinass]

Thanks for the reply. So you're saying I should eat at the lower range of carbs, don't worry to much about fat. And cut down on the protein a bit?

controlling insulin spikes and thus carbs is THE most important thing a person can do for health and good looks. i know this is strange in world where 60% of the diet exists of non essential food and just 5-10% is highly essential. upside down world

 

[oldmusclemike]

Ok I will look up some more online info. Thanks

I post this all the time and everyone is probably tired of it. But this should get your attention as to why we use an AI and promote you to look at more info.

Low Estrogen Side Effects:

- Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

High Estrogen Side Effects:-

Gynecomastia
- Anxiety & panic attacks
- Depression
- Erectile dysfunction
- Water retention
- High blood pressure
- Loss of balance/instability/dizziness
- Respiratory related concerns
- Irritability
- Low libido
- Insomnia
- Prostate related issues
- Crying like a little girl and being emotional all the time

Good luck my friend

 

[Inspectornorse]

I post this all the time and everyone is probably tired of it. But this should get your attention as to why we use an AI and promote you to look at more info.

Low Estrogen Side Effects:

- Osteoporosis (weakened bones) ; (long-term low levels)
- Poor sex drive
- Fatigue
- Lethargy
- Skin quality diminishes
- Depression
- Poor sense of wellbeing & poor quality of life

High Estrogen Side Effects:-

Gynecomastia
- Anxiety & panic attacks
- Depression
- Erectile dysfunction
- Water retention
- High blood pressure
- Loss of balance/instability/dizziness
- Respiratory related concerns
- Irritability
- Low libido
- Insomnia
- Prostate related issues
- Crying like a little girl and being emotional all the time

Good luck my friend

Thank you very much. So if I'm running 550mg test E a week. What kind of dose of arromasin would you recommend?
I was originally going to with 12.5mg ED. but upon further reading it seems it should be left for an 'as needed' basis.
What do you suggest. I've seen so many conflicting suggestions regarding it.

 

[bustinass]

Ai should ALWAYS be on per need basis, NEVER run an AI beforehand, AI fuck up the body pretty badly so use ONLY when needed

actually you dont even need an AI if you eat right but thats heracy on a modern bodybuilding board, sadly

more is always better is the modern motto, for me its smarter is better

 

[49ER]

Ai should ALWAYS be on per need basis, NEVER run an AI beforehand, AI fuck up the body pretty badly so use ONLY when needed

actually you dont even need an AI if you eat right but thats heracy on a modern bodybuilding board, sadly

more is always better is the modern motto, for me its smarter is better

People think im stupid because i try to avoid ai as much as possible, i use it as needed but i tend to use test low and yes my diet is fucked sometimes but im gonna change some day lol

 

[bustinass]

real life example, myself. I now look BETTER with less hormones, less cardio, more rest, WAY less training at almost 35 yrs old then when i was 25 and my body was FULL of testosterone and natural HGH

why? cause i LEARN things and do things smarter. diet is 1 of these things. people who just see macros will never go anywhere without overdosing and even then look like shite. DIET is key if you want most bang for your buck

ofcourse quality hormones also but diet is 1 part of the holy trinity

 

[Inspectornorse]

thanks for the replies fellas. Looks like I'll be staying away from Arromasin unless i feel like i need to use it.

real life example, myself. I now look BETTER with less hormones, less cardio, more rest, WAY less training at almost 35 yrs old then when i was 25 and my body was FULL of testosterone and natural HGH

why? cause i LEARN things and do things smarter. diet is 1 of these things. people who just see macros will never go anywhere without overdosing and even then look like shite. DIET is key if you want most bang for your buck

ofcourse quality hormones also but diet is 1 part of the holy trinity

What kind of diet would you recommend then for lean muscle gains on test e? You probably have a shit load more experience than me

 

[49ER]

Alot of people like aromasin personally i like arimidex if i need it. Aromasin i need ed and way more expensive infeel adex gets the job done fast, just my preference

 

[anzel]

This is my first time using aromasin and used adex in the past. I chose to try aromasin because adex can screw up your liver values (which I noticed on last years blood work while running adex). So I am taking 20 mg ED while on 500mg of test and some deca. I think Im having a little trouble getting it dialed in tho. I am getting labs done in 2 weeks so I will know for sure. But if you are concerned about your liver values its worth a shot.

 

[bustinass]

thanks for the replies fellas. Looks like I'll be staying away from Arromasin unless i feel like i need to use it.




What kind of diet would you recommend then for lean muscle gains on test e? You probably have a shit load more experience than me

how does your body react to carbs? do you bloof up, do you get leaner, do you get fatter, you need much cardio etc?

if yes to any then carbs wont do you much good but fats will, also use some masteron if you can, helps loads with test E.

 

[hiram1st]

Read this thread :
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...en-cycle-good-bad-proper-management-both.html

The purpose of managing your e2 is so you don't have to try and fix an issue.

You don't put your seat belt on after your in a head on collision right?

 

[bustinass]

Read this thread :
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...en-cycle-good-bad-proper-management-both.html

The purpose of managing your e2 is so you don't have to try and fix an issue.

You don't put your seat belt on after your in a head on collision right?

this logic is faulty and VERY naive

NEVER use an AI if you dont need to, NEVER EVER. what is this amateur stuff here, i expect better from this forum!

 

[49ER]

Low test masterOn is all you need but i rather you say it BA cuz you look better lol

 

[Roush]

OP -- up your Proviron to 75-100 mg per day,, run it the whole cycle, not just 5 weeks.. It will help you get more out of the cycle

 

[Megatron28]

this logic is faulty and VERY naive

NEVER use an AI if you dont need to, NEVER EVER. what is this amateur stuff here, i expect better from this forum!

You are right. Never use an AI unless you need it. That can be said about most things in life. I think the part you are missing though is that OP is extremely likely to need an AI for the cycle he is running. So much so that the risks of not using one far out weight the risks of running it and not actually needing it in my opinion.