My first 'proper' test cycle.

[Megatron28]

If this is your first cycle with testosterone, why are you running all the other AAS compounds? You need to learn how your body responds to just testosterone. Save the other stuff for future cycles.

 

[49ER]

Same goes for condoms never use unless necessary

 

[Inspectornorse]

Regarding AI. I will not use unless needed, which will be if I start to notice excessive water retention, itchy swollen nipples and the other gyno symptoms. Is this correct?
Regarding proviron doseage, if I can get my hands on more I will up my dosage.
And I've used winstrol and anavar before and really liked the effects, but now I'm added a test base if you guy suggest to just use test e then I will?

 

[hiram1st]

How about HCG are you planning on running it?

 

[bustinass]

You are right. Never use an AI unless you need it. That can be said about most things in life. I think the part you are missing though is that OP is extremely likely to need an AI for the cycle he is running. So much so that the risks of not using one far out weight the risks of running it and not actually needing it in my opinion.

how is he extremely likely to need it? isnt this his real FIRST test cycle? if yes then no need to run anything except 1 compound to learn how his body reacts.

AI's are shit, i never use them, like a bazooka killing a fly, inaccurate as shit and hurt the body a lot with fucking up blood lipids. fuck AI's

with proper diet you dont need AI but most people have zero clue about a real way of eating and just look at macros and done

most people dont even know they are deficient as FUCK in most minerals and dont think thats important. most people are 100% wrong

 

[Roush]

how is he extremely likely to need it? isnt this his real FIRST test cycle? if yes then no need to run anything except 1 compound to learn how his body reacts.

AI's are shit, i never use them, like a bazooka killing a fly, inaccurate as shit and hurt the body a lot with fucking up blood lipids. fuck AI's

with proper diet you dont need AI but most people have zero clue about a real way of eating and just look at macros and done

most people dont even know they are deficient as FUCK in most minerals and dont think thats important. most people are 100% wrong

well you look DRY as fuk not running an AI -- so whatever your eating is obviously working..

Me on the other hand,, with Test and Dbol in my current cycle,, I have to have an AI,, my BP spiked to 186/106,, upped my AI and it came back down to 130/80.


either way,, 4 weeks into a cycle a simple blood test to check e2 levels is all that would be needed to determine if you "need" an AI or not-- If estrogen is spiked, then an AI is the only way to get it back down.. and high estrogen sucks,, makes me feel like total shit, anxiety, high blood pressure, can't breath, can't sleep, etc.

 

[bustinass]

you are just using TOO much test and dbol, thats the answer. the bod can utilise X amount of a hormone and everything else gets converted to estrogen and estrogen holds water and water in veins = high BP

so lower the test and dbol, use some mast, lower ur carbs, up the fats, do some cardio and you will be absolutely FINE

test in general doesnt need to be run above 400-500mg's, unless you are on quality GH then you can run much more. way too many guys use way too much test and as consequence look like bouncers instead of lean beasts with proportions. test is a basic thing, wont cut you up or do anything special, just use it to feel good and have some thickness. i for example never in my life went over 750mg per week of test and this was back in 2006, for years now 400mg per week of test is my maximum

 

[halfwit]

how is he extremely likely to need it? isnt this his real FIRST test cycle? if yes then no need to run anything except 1 compound to learn how his body reacts.

AI's are shit, i never use them, like a bazooka killing a fly, inaccurate as shit and hurt the body a lot with fucking up blood lipids. fuck AI's

with proper diet you dont need AI but most people have zero clue about a real way of eating and just look at macros and done

most people dont even know they are deficient as FUCK in most minerals and dont think thats important. most people are 100% wrong

Stop with the bro-science. Seriously.

Aromatase inhibitors controlling estradiol have FAR more to do with potential side effects than just controlling the visible issues like water retention.

Can they be harsh on lipids? Sure. But I'll take slightly out of profile lipids (the impact on them is often greatly exaggerated) than prostate cancer or a very real potential of cardiac issues. Estradiol is a carcinogen, and needs to be respected.

Too many folks like to take a reactive approach, when a proactive one is far superior and can prevent a cascade of issues further down the road.

I'm happy for you that you have been able to control one facet of AAS use through the modification of diet, but I'd like to see your blood work showing me how decreasing your intake of carbohydrates magically keeps this hormone at bay. Are there exceptions to this rule? Absolutely. But most of those are found in the TRT forums, where we're talking about physiological doses of androgens - NOT pushing the bounds of the human body's ability to reach/maintain homeostasis.

My post may come off harsh, but it has taken a great deal of time and effort to get this kind of "amateur" mindset established here - where folks can experiment with PEDs safely.

My .02c

 

[bustinass]

lol @ calling me amateru and bro science haha. good luck with that m8!

AI = donkey shit, not needed, never will be, useless cow menure and way too many noobies use it because the think they are smart yet they know shit about anything

 

[hiram1st]

^^^this

Well said halfwit perfect analysis and concise post as usual. Some new members might start thinking it's a on hand thing and come back trying to be reactive to a problem as you said.

 

[halfwit]

lol @ calling me amateru and bro science haha. good luck with that m8!

AI = donkey shit, not needed, never will be, useless cow menure and way too many noobies use it because the think they are smart yet they know shit about anything

YOU stated that we're amateur, not the other way around.

You have those blood test results showing me how 60 years of science is wrong? Look man, I've been around since the days of zinc and nolva combined with an anti-bitch-tits prayer accompanied a cycle. This is the 21st century, we know better and have the tools available to push things further - safely.

But I get that when you're young and feel invincible, the thought of having a pipe cleaner tipped with a drill bit going down your pee hole isn't a concern. It will be some day, maybe then you'll think about things in a different light.

 

[Roush]

he's middle aged though halfwit think he stated he was 35

 

[49ER]

So basically we have to stay in ai forever? ? Maybe thats causing brown piss and doesnt sound too healthy. My estro stays not to out of control on low test high mast.... alot of guys dont need the amount of test they use especially without hgh. I don't do studies i base things off my blood work, only reason i had to use letro recently is because i tried running a gram of test when i knew better and i caught the issue the day my nip got sore and never had gyno yet knock on wood.... Always have a ai on hand thats a must. Not trying to fight but where i met BA theres alot of guys very advance and blow away everyone on this forum physique wise go by the same principles

 

[Megatron28]

you are just using TOO much test and dbol, thats the answer. the bod can utilise X amount of a hormone and everything else gets converted to estrogen and estrogen holds water and water in veins = high BP

so lower the test and dbol, use some mast, lower ur carbs, up the fats, do some cardio and you will be absolutely FINE

test in general doesnt need to be run above 400-500mg's, unless you are on quality GH then you can run much more. way too many guys use way too much test and as consequence look like bouncers instead of lean beasts with proportions. test is a basic thing, wont cut you up or do anything special, just use it to feel good and have some thickness. i for example never in my life went over 750mg per week of test and this was back in 2006, for years now 400mg per week of test is my maximum

I am not going to rehash everything Halfwit said so perfectly. I just want to state that you have no business giving advice to people about AAS.

 

[bustinass]

lol at some few dudes here getting insulted by me telling the truth

why use AI if its not needed!

 

[bustinass]

I am not going to rehash everything Halfwit said so perfectly. I just want to state that you have no business giving advice to people about AAS.

with all due respect as a mod and all, you have NO idea what you are talking about in this topic in relationship to me, none whatsoever. literally

i am tired of faceless and picless keyboard warriors on these sites. my bod does the talking for me, not 1 season but for last 10+yrs. proof is in te pudding baby! PROOF, i know a hard thing on the interwebz but i still live in the real world

 

[Roush]

heres my very very simple two cents--


If I go to my doctor and get blood work done and my e2 is very elevated and over range-- then he is going to prescribe me an AI.. why would he do this ? because an AI is needed to lower spiked estrogen levels.


If I'm running 150 mg a week of test, and 800 mg a week of masteron, 600 mg a week of primo, and 70 mg a day of VAR.. and I go to my doc and get blood work done,, well chances of my E2 being high are very little and I doubt an AI will be needed cause I don't have spiked estrogen levels

 

[Megatron28]

lol at some few dudes here getting insulted by me telling the truth

why use AI if its not needed!

How do you recommend determining if an AI is needed?

 

[Mrrippedzilla]

how is he extremely likely to need it? isnt this his real FIRST test cycle? if yes then no need to run anything except 1 compound to learn how his body reacts.

AI's are shit, i never use them, like a bazooka killing a fly, inaccurate as shit and hurt the body a lot with fucking up blood lipids. fuck AI's

with proper diet you dont need AI but most people have zero clue about a real way of eating and just look at macros and done

most people dont even know they are deficient as FUCK in most minerals and dont think thats important. most people are 100% wrong

This being his first cycle is EXACTLY why using an AI is so important - he has no idea how the increased e2 is going to effect him with regards to all the potential negative health sides as well as how he will generally feel with higher e2.

Also - your being extremely naïve if you think a proper diet is going to outdo the increased e2 that comes from super physiological levels of anabolics. It isn't going to happen.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm very much in the minority when I say that IMO AIs are not always necessary and can actually be detrimental to muscle gains (low e2 is much WORSE than high e2).
For most guys with experience, I see no need to use an AI "just in case" if you've already established that its not an issue for you. But on a first cycle you have no idea what sides your susceptible to, including those resulting from high e2.
So play it safe with an AI and get mid cycle bloodwork to make adjustments as needed.

 

[Xander24]

This being his first cycle is EXACTLY why using an AI is so important - he has no idea how the increased e2 is going to effect him with regards to all the potential negative health sides as well as how he will generally feel with higher e2.

Also - your being extremely naïve if you think a proper diet is going to outdo the increased e2 that comes from super physiological levels of anabolics. It isn't going to happen.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm very much in the minority when I say that IMO AIs are not always necessary and can actually be detrimental to muscle gains (low e2 is much WORSE than high e2).
For most guys with experience, I see no need to use an AI "just in case" if you've already established that its not an issue for you. But on a first cycle you have no idea what sides your susceptible to, including those resulting from high e2.
So play it safe with an AI and get mid cycle bloodwork to make adjustments as needed.

If he uses an AI right off the bat on his first cycle how will he ever know he needs to use it? Hard to crash E2 with Aromasin, so wouldn't the better play be to start the cycle, then go get mid cycle bloodwork and then determine if he needs to implement the AI?