My labs. Comments welcome.

[king.koopa]

My labs. Comments and quesions welcome.

My symptoms:

Poor body composition (pot belly, chest fat, difficult to gain muscle/lose fat)
Low mood
No vitality
Poor(ish) libido

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

Are you are you asking us to AGREE WITH YOU and verify YES.... that you need to start waving the "BLACK and YELLOW", VISIT - Maximus HRT
submit your online medical history questionnaire and JOIN THE TEAM, or are you asking us to KICK YOU IN THE HEAD and verify YES.... that you need to start waving the "BLACK and YELLOW", VISIT - Maximus HRT
submit your online medical history questionnaire and JOIN THE TEAM?!?!?!

 

[mlc31]

You are in the right place king. Do a little research on this site about Chip and Maximus and then shoot him an email. Dude will get you straight.

 

[king.koopa]

I've tried testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) before but it just raised my E2 and DHT. Got zero benefit. Got fatter and my hair went thinner. I was on 100mg cyp per week plus hcg 250IU twice per week.

My T went quite high too.

 

[mlc31]

You may have tried testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) but you haven't tried it with Chip and Maximus. Trust me brother, he's seen it all. Nothing you're experiencing is new to him. Just drop him a line.

 

[cashout]

I've tried testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) before but it just raised my E2 and DHT. Got zero benefit. Got fatter and my hair went thinner. I was on 100mg cyp per week plus hcg 250IU twice per week.

My T went quite high too.

In your protocol you may want to include arimidex to inhibit conversion of T to E and a 5-AR inhibitor to inhibit the conversion of T to DHT.

Regards.

 

[king.koopa]

In your protocol you may want to include arimidex to inhibit conversion of T to E and a 5-AR inhibitor to inhibit the conversion of T to DHT.

Regards.

Agreed. But I've heard terrible things about propecia.

 

[cashout]

Agreed. But I've heard terrible things about propecia.

Here we go again....sorry this is one of my pet peeves.

I've used propecia non-stop for the past 16 years with not a single complication other than a full rockstar head of hair.

I've participated in 3, yes 3, separate clinical studies on propecia in the last 16 years so I have literally met thousands of people who have or are using the drug.

In the last 16 years I can tell you that the reports of side effects are greatly exaggerated.

I have spoken to a handful of people who experienced gyno from using propecia. In most every case, the gyno subsided after the blood level stabilized. Yes, Propecia can raise your test level and that may convert to extra estrogen and result in gyno. Hence, my suggestion to use and AI.

Among the thousands of folks with whom I've spoke over the years, I've only noted a handful that actually had this side effect. I'm gyno-prone and never had any issue.

In so many cases with propecia where people complain about this side effect or that side effect, these folks are taking other drugs that **may** have created the side effect or caused an interaction.

For example, I've heard numerous times, "Propecia gave me ED." After talking with these folks, I find that they are heavy smokers, drink like a fish, are using other drugs like crestor, don't exercise or eat properly YET THEY KNOW it was the Propecia that caused their ED. WTF?

I would suggest you not take my opinion or any other opinions as a position of fact.

Get the medical research that has been published on Propecia. There is a ton of peer reviewed articles that give solid insight into the potential side effects and the likelihood of occurrence. If you do this, I am sure you'll see the occurrence rate is very small.

Regards.

 

[redboy]

I humbly suggest you speak with Chip about all your concerns, the man knows the answers to everything you're going to ask about HRT. I did, and it was one of my better life decisions, ever.

 

[aginghippie]

musclechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?3611-Official-Finasteride-Thread/page15&highlight=propecia

Post # 217

Adverse Effects of 5a-R inhibitor Therapy
A host of adverse effects had been observed in the clinical settings as a result of 5a-RIs therapy; however, some of these adverse events are consid- ered either insignificant or temporary, and may not exhibit long-term effects in patients***8217; overall health. Other adverse events including sexual dysfunction appear to either become severe or persistent. In the study by Wessells et al. [25], only 50% of patients experienced resolution of their sexual adverse events after discontinuation. Furthermore, Erdemir et al. [26] stated that ***8220;While sexual dys- function induced by Finasteride and dutasteride diminishes over time, resolving completely with discontinuation of therapy and discontinuation due to sexual adverse events occurs in up to 4% of patients.***8221; Additional evidence is found in clinical studies and in the Merck database, which strongly suggest that in some patients, the sexual adverse effects are persistent. In the medicine health care products regulatory agency (MHRA) public assess- ment report on the risk of finasteride published in December of 2009 in Section 4.8 Undesirable Effects, it was stated that ***8220;In addition, the following have been reported in post-marketing use: persis- tence of ED after discontinuation of treatment with PROPECIA.***8221; Clearly, the sexual adverse events do not necessarily resolve completely in all patients, who discontinue use of finasteride, again support- ing the premise that in some patients these sexual side effects remain ***8220;persistent.***8221;

forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/mainstream-media-finally-realizing-134300565-2.html

Post # 15

To Cashout - maybe you weren't affected but others have

 

[cashout]

To Cashout - maybe you weren't affected but others have

I never wrote that "others" did not have issues. If you go back and reread what I wrote, I stated that I had indeed spoken with folks who did have side effects.

I would never make a statement in terms of absolutes. Obviously, there are always going to effects and interactions when you take any drug.

The point of my post was that with Propecia, there is a tremendous amount of misinformation regarding side effects that get attributed to the drug by folks who really have no clue what may have cause their respective issue because they are often using a plethora of other substances as well as propecia.

Regards

 

[JOWS6]

I do not know much about propecia but I don't necessarily agree with your argument. There seems to be many variables when accounting for sexual dysfunction and yes, being overweight, drinking, not exercising are a few of them. However, it seems that Propecia is the causal variable in erectile dysfunction. If there are double-blind studies for determining adverse effects of Propecia, isn't that enough to associate Propecia with ED? If within a study ED was not prevalent, but only after use of Propecia compared to the control group that suggests causality.

 

[JOWS6]

Luckily, being enrolled in school I have an online database which can tap into thousands of scholarly peer-reviewed journal articles and found one concerning Propecia.

The article entitled, "Evaluation of sexual function in subjects taking finasteride for the treatment of androgenetic alopecia" in the Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology found that there was no statistical difference between the two groups.

In a study of 236 subjects on Finasteride compared with 236 age-matched control subjects, "the sexual and erectile function of subjects taking Finasteride does not statistically differ from that of age-matched controls." "This is consistent with the experience of many dermatologists who do not see sexual or erectile dysfunction in patients taking Propecia."

I stand corrected.

 

[cashout]

Luckily, being enrolled in school I have an online database which can tap into thousands of scholarly peer-reviewed journal articles and found one concerning Propecia.

The article entitled, "Evaluation of sexual function in subjects taking finasteride for the treatment of androgenetic alopecia" in the Journal of the European Academy of Dermatology and Venereology found that there was no statistical difference between the two groups.

In a study of 236 subjects on Finasteride compared with 236 age-matched control subjects, "the sexual and erectile function of subjects taking Finasteride does not statistically differ from that of age-matched controls." "This is consistent with the experience of many dermatologists who do not see sexual or erectile dysfunction in patients taking Propecia."

I stand corrected.

That is one of the citations that I was going to post. Good find! As a professor, I use PubMed for most of my research queries.

If anyone is interested, do a PubMed search, you will find 100s of studies on finasteride.

There is a meta analysis of the current literature and in that study they utilize an aggregate N of 27,264. In the meta analysis of the side effects reported in all previous published peer reviewed studies, ED was reported at a rate of no greater than 3.21%.

Also, be very careful with the word causality. I think you mean to suggest that there is a correlation. Remember correlation never implies causality. It simply states that as variable A changes variable B also changes in a certain direction and proportion.

Again, my point in my original post was not to say that there are no side effects with propecia. I was posting to explain that most people present way to many exogenous variables and far to few controls to determine if there is an statistically significant correlation between a symptom and a single drug when they may be using a host of other meds simultaneously.

I was directing that comment at the folks that come here and say, "I know a guy that took propecia and he had all these issues."

That is not a reliable form of evidence - it is anecdotal.

One should begin by looking to the peer-reviewed medical literature for a initial frame of reference.

Regards.

 

[CHIP WADOWSKI]

CASHOUT..... don't buy into his brand of shit. "AGENDA". More and more frequently all will develop the "feel" for when the "COPY AND PASTE, Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) AGENDA KING of NOTHINGSVILLE and STUPIDHAM is lurking. Eventually, he and his "type" will run out of places to create drama as more people with legitimate input, like YOURSELF, surface. What's he have.... 5 or 6 posts?? The guy is a flat out, dead beat loser. He needs to stay on Meso-rx where they accept and promote his kind.

 

[king.koopa]

The guy is a flat out, dead beat loser.

Why is he a dead beat loser?

 

[king.koopa]

Here we go again....sorry this is one of my pet peeves.

I've used propecia non-stop for the past 16 years with not a single complication other than a full rockstar head of hair.

I've participated in 3, yes 3, separate clinical studies on propecia in the last 16 years so I have literally met thousands of people who have or are using the drug.

In the last 16 years I can tell you that the reports of side effects are greatly exaggerated.

I have spoken to a handful of people who experienced gyno from using propecia. In most every case, the gyno subsided after the blood level stabilized. Yes, Propecia can raise your test level and that may convert to extra estrogen and result in gyno. Hence, my suggestion to use and AI.

Among the thousands of folks with whom I've spoke over the years, I've only noted a handful that actually had this side effect. I'm gyno-prone and never had any issue.

In so many cases with propecia where people complain about this side effect or that side effect, these folks are taking other drugs that **may** have created the side effect or caused an interaction.

For example, I've heard numerous times, "Propecia gave me ED." After talking with these folks, I find that they are heavy smokers, drink like a fish, are using other drugs like crestor, don't exercise or eat properly YET THEY KNOW it was the Propecia that caused their ED. WTF?

I would suggest you not take my opinion or any other opinions as a position of fact.

Get the medical research that has been published on Propecia. There is a ton of peer reviewed articles that give solid insight into the potential side effects and the likelihood of occurrence. If you do this, I am sure you'll see the occurrence rate is very small.

Regards.

I appreciate your comments. How much do you take and are you on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT)? (and for how long?)

Also, why have you participated in studies for propecia?