My post cycle therapy (pct) Protocol
- Thread starter SWALE
- Start date
SomeBloke
Midnight Rodeo
SWALE, i would like to commend you not only for taking the time to put this post together, but also for your personal stance towards working proactively with illicit Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users.
as a pharmacist i am only too aware of common perceptions within the med/pharm community in regards to aas, and the professional obstacles practitioners (and students) face in preparing themselves to deal with the issues which crop up as a direct result of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.
if you wouldnt mind, could you please simplify your post cycle therapy (pct) drug regimen so that readers understand a little better (it is a tad confusing, just take a look at poor L-lad-Joe)
would you also care to describe just how much more efficient this post cycle therapy (pct) is compared to others (how long after cessation of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) regimen do you expect that homeostasis will be reached) and also, what would be a responsible time for an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) user to wait post post cycle therapy (pct) before commencing their next cycle (if they were so inclined)
cheers
as a pharmacist i am only too aware of common perceptions within the med/pharm community in regards to aas, and the professional obstacles practitioners (and students) face in preparing themselves to deal with the issues which crop up as a direct result of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.
if you wouldnt mind, could you please simplify your post cycle therapy (pct) drug regimen so that readers understand a little better (it is a tad confusing, just take a look at poor L-lad-Joe)
would you also care to describe just how much more efficient this post cycle therapy (pct) is compared to others (how long after cessation of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) regimen do you expect that homeostasis will be reached) and also, what would be a responsible time for an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) user to wait post post cycle therapy (pct) before commencing their next cycle (if they were so inclined)
cheers
Swole1Day?
New member
Also SWALE, what's your opinion on Letrozole for post cycle therapy (pct)? Many have had great success using it in conjunction with Clomid? Thank you in advance...
I think it is a fine drug, but I just haven't used it. I am well familiar with Arimidex, and know how to use it, so do. Hmmmm....maybe I should look into using other AI's.
However, I am against using ANY Aromatase inhibitor (AI) post-cycle. The risk of driving E too low with one of them is too great. I NEVER use it in my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients without lab monitoring.
However, I am against using ANY Aromatase inhibitor (AI) post-cycle. The risk of driving E too low with one of them is too great. I NEVER use it in my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients without lab monitoring.
Nelson Montana
Community Veteran, Bodybuilding Author
SWALE said:
Be gone with me? Wow, that's lame. Too much Lord Of The Rings or something.
First of all, your comment that I am trying to make money at the expense of anyones health is a dispicable statement. Your self boasting is also unprofessional (and unfounded). Be that as it may, I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying and you seem to be dismissing things I never said so I'm not sure where you're going with all this.
I too am consulted by top people in the field but that's neither here nor there. I'm not here to fight with you. You have something to offer but you diminish your credibility when you attempt to improve yor status by belittling others, or perhaps you confused me with soem kid with a computer and no credentials. Anyway, let's try to keep an open mind so that everyone may cotribute.
And by the way, I don't believe for a second you don't profit from what you sell. Don't embarass yourself. Hey, there's no shame in making a profit if what you sell has merit. That's what I do and I freely admit it. Any fool can give free (bad) advice. You get what you pay for.
bleachcola
New member
What are your credentials?
SomeBloke
Midnight Rodeo
SWALE i would like to hear your rationale for the discontinuation of hcg one week post final Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) administration. you say that the testosterone produced will hinder recovery, but i fond this to be somewhat irrational given that the testosterone produced is endogenous
it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to say that endogenously produced testosterone as a result of hcg administration is inhibitory, while endogenous testosterone produced as a result of LH agonism is not.
clearly the supplemental use of hcg is to take the place of LH in the hypo patient. obviously LH levels rise quite rapidly post Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use in any event, but i cant see too much harm coming of using hcg while this takes place- if anything, i believe that it may hasten recovery, and minimise the trough in endogenous test levels before complete reactivation occurs
i am not doubting your real world experience and success; far from it. i have referred many people to you and your site, and would reccommend that they follow your original protocol. your thoughts on this issue would be appreciated though
cheers
edit: hang on, hcg will impact upon LH normalisation. there you go
it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to say that endogenously produced testosterone as a result of hcg administration is inhibitory, while endogenous testosterone produced as a result of LH agonism is not.
clearly the supplemental use of hcg is to take the place of LH in the hypo patient. obviously LH levels rise quite rapidly post Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use in any event, but i cant see too much harm coming of using hcg while this takes place- if anything, i believe that it may hasten recovery, and minimise the trough in endogenous test levels before complete reactivation occurs
i am not doubting your real world experience and success; far from it. i have referred many people to you and your site, and would reccommend that they follow your original protocol. your thoughts on this issue would be appreciated though
cheers
edit: hang on, hcg will impact upon LH normalisation. there you go
Last edited:
SomeBloke
Midnight Rodeo
J-Land_Joe said:
hcg at 250-500 for TWO CONSECUTIVE DAYS EACH WEEK for the duration of the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle- not 250-500 every week like you said
the nolvadex/clomid dosing timing is confusing, isnt it
what swale means is, when your blood levels of injected steroid reaches the equivalent of 200mg/dL testosterone (200mg/dL is a very low testosterone level for a male- males usually have between 300-1200mg/dL test naturally) then you should have the nolva/clomid already in your body at therapeutic levels.so when the hell is that, you ask
depends on the roid you are using. everyone here knows about steroid half lives and all that. if you are using a long acting agent (eg sustanon) it will take about 2.5 weeks for it to happen. if you are using test suspension, it will take a couple of days. so you have to time your use of nolva/clomid depending on the particular drug you are using at the time.
this is why it is better to use shorter acting agents at the end of your cycle- there is less guesswork involved in timing your nolva/clomid. if you are using deca, you might be off by a week or two. if you are using test suspension, you might be off by a day.
cheers
Nelson--When I say I do not make ANY profit on the dispensation of the meds, that is EXACTLY what I mean. Not one red cent. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Never have, never will. It is as simple as that. I should think that such a helpful ethical decison would be appreciated, not called "embarrassing myself". LOL.
I made this ethical practice decision on my first day. The reasons are:
1). To truly help the Bro's out.
2). Because I am trying my best to get them away from Black Market drugs (for the meds I CAN provide), which generally are cheaper than the real thing, I have to keep the prices as low as possible. Indeed a couple of the drugs have actually gone down in price as we have been able to find better suppliers. Others have gone up, as the pharm companies keep squeezing all of us.
3). In doing it this way, no one can EVER say that I am in this to sell drugs, or to make money.
What you have is a store. This is capitalism at its best. Instead, I say that I recognize there is nothing wrong with YOU making money. But publishing "information" which is simply untrue from a medical standpoint (in order to make more money), and trying to attack a medical professional who really DOES know what he is talking about-- and always provides advice to the best of my abilities (as I have absolutely no ties to ANY particular product)--is just plain wrong headed.
I appreciate that I am competition to you, in a way. Guys generally would rather have real FDA-approved medications, dispensed and controlled by an expert in the field, than inferior OTC's (although there are some OTC's out there which can be VERY useful for mens' health!). But you do neither your reputation NOR YOUR BUSINESS any good by trying to attack me. It is time for you to realize that.
I made this ethical practice decision on my first day. The reasons are:
1). To truly help the Bro's out.
2). Because I am trying my best to get them away from Black Market drugs (for the meds I CAN provide), which generally are cheaper than the real thing, I have to keep the prices as low as possible. Indeed a couple of the drugs have actually gone down in price as we have been able to find better suppliers. Others have gone up, as the pharm companies keep squeezing all of us.
3). In doing it this way, no one can EVER say that I am in this to sell drugs, or to make money.
What you have is a store. This is capitalism at its best. Instead, I say that I recognize there is nothing wrong with YOU making money. But publishing "information" which is simply untrue from a medical standpoint (in order to make more money), and trying to attack a medical professional who really DOES know what he is talking about-- and always provides advice to the best of my abilities (as I have absolutely no ties to ANY particular product)--is just plain wrong headed.
I appreciate that I am competition to you, in a way. Guys generally would rather have real FDA-approved medications, dispensed and controlled by an expert in the field, than inferior OTC's (although there are some OTC's out there which can be VERY useful for mens' health!). But you do neither your reputation NOR YOUR BUSINESS any good by trying to attack me. It is time for you to realize that.
muscleup--Yes. As always, try to find out what is best for you. There are few hard-and-fast rules where this stuff comes in, because there is so much variability across the male population. We also have SO much to learn still about the science involved. Keep trying new things. I think one thing that helps the Pro's is that they have done all this so many times that they have learned how their bodies respond. They can then make minor adjustments, to "tweak" performance, while beginners are still largely stumbling around in the dark. I am just trying to help keep you from stubbing you toe as you do.
muscleup
Community Board Whore
Thank you swale...I hold you in very high regard, and you have made me look at things a bit differently...I know my cycles are bad enough, I want to make sure that I'm doing a much as I can post cycle therapy (pct) to bring my natty test up as quick as possible...I may seek your consultaion soon...Thanks
atrophy
I am new to this board but had to jump in here.
You don't EVER need to use HCG..do a search on google and learn about clomid.
clomid stimulates LH which is responsible for testicular atrophy.
50mg of clomid 3-4 days a week will keep your nuts from shrinking during a cycle this is what I do and many others and we all experiance minimal to zero testicular shrinkage.
Nolvadex lowers IGF therefore it's only use shoukld be fore emergency gyno stopping.
I am new to this board but had to jump in here.
You don't EVER need to use HCG..do a search on google and learn about clomid.
clomid stimulates LH which is responsible for testicular atrophy.
50mg of clomid 3-4 days a week will keep your nuts from shrinking during a cycle this is what I do and many others and we all experiance minimal to zero testicular shrinkage.
Nolvadex lowers IGF therefore it's only use shoukld be fore emergency gyno stopping.
bleachcola
New member
Re: atrophy
Wow. I bet you use dbol bridges too.
ninja235 said:
Wow. I bet you use dbol bridges too.
bleachcola
New member
For all you newbies out there, the use of clomid will not prevent testicle shrinkage during a cycle. Yes, clomid does stimulate the release of LH, but not when supraphysiological levels of testosterone are present, i.e. during a cycle. The fact of the matter is that nothing will stimulate the release of LH while on a cycle. That is why a LH analog (hcg) must be used to treat testicular atrophy. And no, nolvadex should not just be used for emergency gyno treatment. Studies comparing tamoxifen and clomiphene clearly show that nolvadex is the better choice for post cycle therapy (pct). Tamoxifen increases LH responsiveness to GnRH, while clomiphene actually lowers it.
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