My post cycle therapy (pct) Protocol

[DrJMW]

SWALE's assessment is excellent. Feedback from my clients would confirm that his recommended use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) throughout the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle works. It is one alternative, albeit a strong one. Using HCG/Nolvadex and sometimes clomid post-cycle is a second alternative. The second alternative is for those who do not want to do the extra injections, for the most part.

 

[ronmolina]

Hey Swale I am going to employ your services soon. I will do it through your site.

 

[CYPHON]

Great post.

 

[SomeBloke]

SWALE, i would like to commend you not only for taking the time to put this post together, but also for your personal stance towards working proactively with illicit Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) users.

as a pharmacist i am only too aware of common perceptions within the med/pharm community in regards to aas, and the professional obstacles practitioners (and students) face in preparing themselves to deal with the issues which crop up as a direct result of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use.

if you wouldnt mind, could you please simplify your post cycle therapy (pct) drug regimen so that readers understand a little better (it is a tad confusing, just take a look at poor L-lad-Joe)

would you also care to describe just how much more efficient this post cycle therapy (pct) is compared to others (how long after cessation of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) regimen do you expect that homeostasis will be reached) and also, what would be a responsible time for an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) user to wait post post cycle therapy (pct) before commencing their next cycle (if they were so inclined)

cheers

 

[Swole1Day?]

Also SWALE, what's your opinion on Letrozole for post cycle therapy (pct)? Many have had great success using it in conjunction with Clomid? Thank you in advance...

 

[SWALE]

I think it is a fine drug, but I just haven't used it. I am well familiar with Arimidex, and know how to use it, so do. Hmmmm....maybe I should look into using other AI's.

However, I am against using ANY Aromatase inhibitor (AI) post-cycle. The risk of driving E too low with one of them is too great. I NEVER use it in my testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) patients without lab monitoring.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Been away for awhile. I see Nelson is (still) up to his same nonsense.

Nelson--even a rudimentary effort at legitimate study will show you that ALL drugs of the class SERM will increase LH production. I have absolutely no idea what makes you say the things you do (other than commercial interest, of course).

I do not, have not, and will not EVER make a single red cent from the sale of any medication. I provide all at my cost in order to help my patients. I also happen to "sell" Nolvadex, so there goes that lame point you were desperately trying to make, too. Before you decide to insult me again, why don't you get your facts straight? But then, why let actual facts get in the way of your opinion? or your huge profits?

BTW, I do think you profit from the vastly inferior OTC's you promote, am I right? I do not remember you mentioning any other sources than Protein Factory. Or am I wrong about that?

An an aromatase inhibitor used without proof of elevated estrogen is indeed contraindicated for various health reasons. Learn about the effects of same, and my stature will certainly grow in your eyes. At least, it SHOULD. LOL.

Finally, as opposed to being "short sighted", the new protocols I have developed for both post cycle therapy (pct) and testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) are the most cutting edge anywhere. I am an unconventional physician in a field of unconventional physicians. Why do you think other physician specialists in these fields from around the world regularly consult with me?

Basically, your comments are nonsensical. You are MUCH worse than the doctors you are so fond of criticizing, because you are doing this just to try to make money, and seem perfectly happy to damage the health of the individuals who follow your lame advice in exchange for same. Now, be gone with you.

Be gone with me? Wow, that's lame. Too much Lord Of The Rings or something.

First of all, your comment that I am trying to make money at the expense of anyones health is a dispicable statement. Your self boasting is also unprofessional (and unfounded). Be that as it may, I don't think you fully understand what I'm saying and you seem to be dismissing things I never said so I'm not sure where you're going with all this.

I too am consulted by top people in the field but that's neither here nor there. I'm not here to fight with you. You have something to offer but you diminish your credibility when you attempt to improve yor status by belittling others, or perhaps you confused me with soem kid with a computer and no credentials. Anyway, let's try to keep an open mind so that everyone may cotribute.

And by the way, I don't believe for a second you don't profit from what you sell. Don't embarass yourself. Hey, there's no shame in making a profit if what you sell has merit. That's what I do and I freely admit it. Any fool can give free (bad) advice. You get what you pay for.

 

[bleachcola]

or perhaps you confused me with soem kid with a computer and no credentials

What are your credentials?

 

[aky]

so does this sum it up? I'd like to know as well.

To sum up, you would recommend the following:

HCT @ 250~500iu every week for the duration of an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle and continue it for one week after the last injection of test (for long acting esters like Enanthate I assume)

Arimidex for the duration of cycle and stop after the last test injection. (at about 1/4 mg every day?????)

Nolvadex post cycle therapy (pct) only (immediately after last injection??????) at about 20 ~ 40mgs daily (likely split into twice a day servings????) for one month.

Do I understand this right? Would appreciate answers to the ????? Thanks!

 

[SomeBloke]

SWALE i would like to hear your rationale for the discontinuation of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) one week post final Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) administration. you say that the testosterone produced will hinder recovery, but i fond this to be somewhat irrational given that the testosterone produced is endogenous

it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to say that endogenously produced testosterone as a result of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) administration is inhibitory, while endogenous testosterone produced as a result of LH agonism is not.

clearly the supplemental use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is to take the place of LH in the hypo patient. obviously LH levels rise quite rapidly post Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) use in any event, but i cant see too much harm coming of using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) while this takes place- if anything, i believe that it may hasten recovery, and minimise the trough in endogenous test levels before complete reactivation occurs

i am not doubting your real world experience and success; far from it. i have referred many people to you and your site, and would reccommend that they follow your original protocol. your thoughts on this issue would be appreciated though

cheers

edit: hang on, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) will impact upon LH normalisation. there you go

 

[SomeBloke]

To sum up, you would recommend the following:

HCT @ 250~500iu every week for the duration of an Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle and continue it for one week after the last injection of test (for long acting esters like Enanthate I assume)

Arimidex for the duration of cycle and stop after the last test injection. (at about 1/4 mg every day?????)

Nolvadex post cycle therapy (pct) only (immediately after last injection??????) at about 20 ~ 40mgs daily (likely split into twice a day servings????) for one month.

Do I understand this right? Would appreciate answers to the ????? Thanks!

hcg at 250-500 for TWO CONSECUTIVE DAYS EACH WEEK for the duration of the Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) cycle- not 250-500 every week like you said

the nolvadex/clomid dosing timing is confusing, isnt it what swale means is, when your blood levels of injected steroid reaches the equivalent of 200mg/dL testosterone (200mg/dL is a very low testosterone level for a male- males usually have between 300-1200mg/dL test naturally) then you should have the nolva/clomid already in your body at therapeutic levels.

so when the hell is that, you ask

depends on the roid you are using. everyone here knows about steroid half lives and all that. if you are using a long acting agent (eg sustanon) it will take about 2.5 weeks for it to happen. if you are using test suspension, it will take a couple of days. so you have to time your use of nolva/clomid depending on the particular drug you are using at the time.

this is why it is better to use shorter acting agents at the end of your cycle- there is less guesswork involved in timing your nolva/clomid. if you are using deca, you might be off by a week or two. if you are using test suspension, you might be off by a day.

cheers

 

[muscleup]

THE BEST stuff I have read in years....

 

[muscleup]

Is taking 250i'u's 3 times per week cool ? say on, Mon, wed, fri ?

 

[SWALE]

Nelson--When I say I do not make ANY profit on the dispensation of the meds, that is EXACTLY what I mean. Not one red cent. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Never have, never will. It is as simple as that. I should think that such a helpful ethical decison would be appreciated, not called "embarrassing myself". LOL.

I made this ethical practice decision on my first day. The reasons are:

1). To truly help the Bro's out.

2). Because I am trying my best to get them away from Black Market drugs (for the meds I CAN provide), which generally are cheaper than the real thing, I have to keep the prices as low as possible. Indeed a couple of the drugs have actually gone down in price as we have been able to find better suppliers. Others have gone up, as the pharm companies keep squeezing all of us.

3). In doing it this way, no one can EVER say that I am in this to sell drugs, or to make money.

 

[SWALE]

muscleup--Yes. As always, try to find out what is best for you. There are few hard-and-fast rules where this stuff comes in, because there is so much variability across the male population. We also have SO much to learn still about the science involved. Keep trying new things. I think one thing that helps the Pro's is that they have done all this so many times that they have learned how their bodies respond. They can then make minor adjustments, to "tweak" performance, while beginners are still largely stumbling around in the dark. I am just trying to help keep you from stubbing you toe as you do.

 

[muscleup]

well I run Long cycles, 6-8 months long...would it be ok to use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) the entire time to help prevent atrophy ?...I use a pretty aggressive yet standard post cycle therapy (pct) and I usually recover in 2-3 months...

 

[SWALE]

I would say it is ESPECIALLY important for you to use it throughout then.

 

[muscleup]

Thank you swale...I hold you in very high regard, and you have made me look at things a bit differently...I know my cycles are bad enough, I want to make sure that I'm doing a much as I can post cycle therapy (pct) to bring my natty test up as quick as possible...I may seek your consultaion soon...Thanks

 

[ninja235]

atrophy

I am new to this board but had to jump in here.
You don't EVER need to use HCG..do a search on google and learn about clomid.
clomid stimulates LH which is responsible for testicular atrophy.
50mg of clomid 3-4 days a week will keep your nuts from shrinking during a cycle this is what I do and many others and we all experiance minimal to zero testicular shrinkage.
Nolvadex lowers IGF therefore it's only use shoukld be fore emergency gyno stopping.

 

[bleachcola]

Re: atrophy

I am new to this board but had to jump in here.
You don't EVER need to use HCG..do a search on google and learn about clomid.
clomid stimulates LH which is responsible for testicular atrophy.
50mg of clomid 3-4 days a week will keep your nuts from shrinking during a cycle this is what I do and many others and we all experiance minimal to zero testicular shrinkage.
Nolvadex lowers IGF therefore it's only use shoukld be fore emergency gyno stopping.

Wow. I bet you use dbol bridges too.