MY TRT Bloodwork numbers help?

[burnsmart]

I am new here and have some recent bloodwork. Its really not complete just some suplimental testing

SHGB 38 (10-50 nmol/L)
Cortisol 17.3
Estridol (sensative) 41 (< or = 39)
TT 741 (250to 827)
DHEA 73 (61-1636 ng/dl)
Pregnenolone 117 (13-208 ng/dl)
DHT 58 (16-79 ng/dl)
Free T 1.33 (.87-5.47 ng/dl)
Vit D 44 (30-100 ng/ml)

All bloodwork done at quest.

Other bloodwork is missing as the order got screwed up. I believe i may be having some E2 symptoms withe ED etc. I am 43 and about 6' 3" tall and 260 lbs. Yes i could loose 30 of that.

Any ideas from the limites results?

Thanks,

 

[PrinceDianabol]

That's really not complete at all. Hard to give any real advice based on that alone.. you need a full bloodwork panel. Thyroid would be a good idea too.

That being said, your e2 certainly isn't that high. You could try bring it down slightly, maybe something milder like Zinc or DIM. Losing some extra pounds would also help bring it down. I'd like to see where your TT is at.

 

[Chiefy]

Free T is a bit low for somebody on TRT, but it makes sense given your SHBG value.

E2 is a little high but could definitely be reduced with a small tweak to your protocol.

What is your protocol and how many days after your last injection were these labs drawn?

 

[burnsmart]

My total T was 741

I inject between .27 ml twice weekly once on Tuesday and again on Friday. This bloodwork was take on Tuesday morning, I assume at my lowest point.

Is there a way to lower SHGB or any method to free up more T? I feel like the E might be a little high, I understand the number does not look bad though.

 

[burnsmart]

I don't take an AI or HCG. I also don't take any supplements other than Vitamin D and some krill oil

 

[Megatron28]

You need more vitamin D. Aim for the upper third of the range.

You should add hCG. Your DHEA and Pregnenolone could be better. You need to backfill the pathways and get your teaticles "turned on".

DIM would be good to lower your E2 slight!y.

 

[burnsmart]

Should i use DIM or Zinc? Would HCG help with the pathways or are you suggesting that i take HCG + supplement with DHEA and pregnenolone. I currently take 5000 of Vitamin D daily, should i go up to 10,000?

I have been on Dilantin for years (an anti seizure med) which is not easy on the liver. Not sure if that impacts your advice.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Megatron28]

Take 1000mg of NAC daily for your liver.

Yes, increase Vitamin D to 10,000iu daily.

Just hCG. That will suffice. Try starting at 250iu twice a week.

I would start with DIM. Too much zinc can be bad for you.

 

[burnsmart]

What would be the dose of DIM?

I read that NAC can be harmful in recent studies, is this true? I do have some astaxanthin which i used to take but have not been. I believe its one of the strongest antioxidants know to man?

I will see if i can get HCG prescribed, any ideas on a good argument to make? Will the HCG increase my E2 to the point where i may need an AI (which may suck adding load to my liver).

 

[Chiefy]

My total T was 741

I inject between .27 ml twice weekly once on Tuesday and again on Friday. This bloodwork was take on Tuesday morning, I assume at my lowest point.

Is there a way to lower SHGB or any method to free up more T? I feel like the E might be a little high, I understand the number does not look bad though.

It's debatable, but many feel that dietary changes and/or supplementation can serve to lower SHBG. High protein, low fiber, vit D, etc.

Just don't expect any drastic changes though. More often than not, a person's SHBG value isn't something that can be manipulated with the ease at which we manipulate our other sex hormones. It's just something to note and make protocol adjustments accordingly.

The science behind what determines our SHBG isn't understood all that well. Some guys see improvement with a reduction in estradiol, but others won't see any significant changes via the same method.


Source: I'm just a dude posting on the internet.

 

[burnsmart]

Chiefy:

Thanks for the response. Earlier you suggested that the E2 could be reduced some with a small tweak to my protocol. Can you follow up on this? Also, would ZMA be helpful at all?

Other suggest the addition of maybe some HCG. I understand this but am concerned that it may lead to higher E which may require and AI. I assume an AI is not great on the liver and i currently take a medication that is tough on the liver (Dilantin).

Any suggestions. I understand i am not really out of wack compared to others that i have seen here but i do have the feeling of someone who has high E. Weight around the middle, not a ton of energy, can feel more emotion, etc.

Thanks,

 

[Megatron28]

Austinite covers DIM dosages and Zinc dosages in the following thread.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/a...ement-gynecomastia-prevention-reversal-3.html

hCG may raise E2 and TT, but it won't necessarily be a problem. You could always compensate by lowering your Test dosage. You won't know until you try it and get blood work. I recommend trying hCG.

I have not seen studies showing that 1000mg of NAC daily is harmful. Please share them. I would be interested in reading them.

 

[burnsmart]

Researchers at the University of Virginia Health System have discovered troubling side effects of N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a common antioxidant used in nutritional and bodybuilding supplements.

NAC can form a red blood cell-derived molecule called nitrosothiol that fools your body into thinking there?s an oxygen shortage, which can lead to pulmonary arterial hypertension (PAH).

PAH is a serious condition, where the arteries in the lungs narrow, increasing the blood pressure in your lungs, causing the right side of your heart to swell.

Lead researcher Dr. Ben Gaston, noted that this is an entirely new understanding of how oxygen is sensed by the body. As it turns out, your body responds to the nitrosothiols, which are created when a decreased amount of oxygen is carried by red blood cells -- not to the amount of oxygen dissolved in the blood.

So far, studies have only been performed on mice. The next step is to determine the threshold at which the antioxidant becomes detrimental to heart and lung function in humans.

 

[burnsmart]

Dangers of NAC
Posted Sep 14 2008 3:52pm

NAC, N-acetyl Cysteine , a popular nutritional supplement has been implicated in a very serious pulmonary disease. In my book I talked about my stance against the use of large amounts of NAC. I did not have anything to go by other than my own personal experience with NAC. It made me feel terrible. I thought it was because NAC is a known mild chelator of mercury. My theory was that it was moving and redistributing mercury in my body without actually removing it. That may be true but it may also have been symptoms reported in this article.

NAC does have a property of increasing Glutathione in the liver. This is a very potent antioxidant used to detoxify the body of many toxins. That is why it is recommended so widely. I believe if it us used at all, it should only be used in very small quantities. It is common for supplement makers to put 500 mgs or more in a capsule/tablet. I think this is dangerous. 25-50 mgs is a far safer amount.

 

[burnsmart]

No clue if i should be alarmed by any of this at all, just some things i read that may need to be taken with a serious grain of salt as most on this site have probably forgotten more than i know on the topic.

 

[burnsmart]

but please give me your opinion on tweaking protocal. Also if Pregnenolone is the precursor for DHEA why am i mid range on pregnenolone but at the lowest end of DHEA? I assume HCG will help this but at my current pregnenolone reading shouldnt i be making more DHEA?

 

[Megatron28]

Dangers of NAC
Posted Sep 14 2008 3:52pm

NAC, N-acetyl Cysteine , a popular nutritional supplement has been implicated in a very serious pulmonary disease. In my book I talked about my stance against the use of large amounts of NAC. I did not have anything to go by other than my own personal experience with NAC. It made me feel terrible. I thought it was because NAC is a known mild chelator of mercury. My theory was that it was moving and redistributing mercury in my body without actually removing it. That may be true but it may also have been symptoms reported in this article.

NAC does have a property of increasing Glutathione in the liver. This is a very potent antioxidant used to detoxify the body of many toxins. That is why it is recommended so widely. I believe if it us used at all, it should only be used in very small quantities. It is common for supplement makers to put 500 mgs or more in a capsule/tablet. I think this is dangerous. 25-50 mgs is a far safer amount.

Do you have actual medical studies with sources?

 

[Megatron28]

Researchers at the University of Virginia Health System have discovered troubling side effects of N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a common antioxidant used in nutritional and bodybuilding supplements.

NAC can form a red blood cell-derived molecule called nitrosothiol that fools your body into thinking there?s an oxygen shortage, which can lead to pulmonary arterial hypertension (PAH).

PAH is a serious condition, where the arteries in the lungs narrow, increasing the blood pressure in your lungs, causing the right side of your heart to swell.

Lead researcher Dr. Ben Gaston, noted that this is an entirely new understanding of how oxygen is sensed by the body. As it turns out, your body responds to the nitrosothiols, which are created when a decreased amount of oxygen is carried by red blood cells -- not to the amount of oxygen dissolved in the blood.

So far, studies have only been performed on mice. The next step is to determine the threshold at which the antioxidant becomes detrimental to heart and lung function in humans.

Mice

 

[Megatron28]

but please give me your opinion on tweaking protocal. Also if Pregnenolone is the precursor for DHEA why am i mid range on pregnenolone but at the lowest end of DHEA? I assume HCG will help this but at my current pregnenolone reading shouldnt i be making more DHEA?

See post #8 for recommendations.

 

[Chiefy]

Chiefy:

Thanks for the response. Earlier you suggested that the E2 could be reduced some with a small tweak to my protocol. Can you follow up on this? Also, would ZMA be helpful at all?

Other suggest the addition of maybe some HCG. I understand this but am concerned that it may lead to higher E which may require and AI. I assume an AI is not great on the liver and i currently take a medication that is tough on the liver (Dilantin).

Any suggestions. I understand i am not really out of wack compared to others that i have seen here but i do have the feeling of someone who has high E. Weight around the middle, not a ton of energy, can feel more emotion, etc.

Thanks,

Your E2 isn't wildly out of control, so you probably won't need to take any drastic measures to bring it down. Megatron offered some solid advice about the DIM, Zinc, and NAC. Those would be the least "invasive" ways to try and bring down your E2.

As I'm sure you know, E2 will be much easier to manage if you lose some of that extra weight. Generally speaking, less fat = less aromatase.

If I were in your shoes I'd be a little more interested in bringing my free T up. Your total T looks good, but your free T is on the lower end of the range. Just seems odd to be on TRT but not adequately replacing your testosterone. I dunno, maybe you feel good where you are, but I wouldn't.

The problem with bringing your free T up (either with hCG or more testosterone) is that your estradiol is likely to go up as well. So that isn't going to fix the issue that you're currently concerned with. A low dose AI would make management of your estradiol a lot easier, but I understand your concerns about adding one. For some guys an AI is a game changer, for others it's a pain in the ass. Tough to predict.

I think it would make sense to have some labs done to check your liver/kidney function, and lipids, so you can correct any issues if needed, and give you an idea if an AI might be an option for you. Generally speaking, a very low dose of Adex is pretty safe.