Nalgene Filter Dilema

[cause4alarm]

I see not much discussion has been going on in this section of the forum so I figured I'd ask a question.

Without really paying attention to what I was ordering, I accidently bought a couple .2um Nalgene nylon membrane filter units. So my question is, should I attempt to use these filters with an oil base solution or not? I've always used a .45um membrane and have read that going any smaller is only recommended for water based solutions. Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks in advance.

 

[Thewes]

If its EO oil (very thin), I always run either whatman or millipore. I run it twice through a .22 and a .45 I believe

 

[stiphy]

C4A -
How did the .2um work? Ive been told thats the one to use. Let us know how it went. If it worked out well, thats what Im going with.

 

[stiphy]

also, if you did use. What pressure did you run it at and how long did it take? Ive heard they crack pretty easily.

 

[cause4alarm]

Stiphy - I tried responding to your PM but I don't have the damn 50 posts on this forum to send PMs, luckily I copied my reply before I tried sending it. If you want, PM me your email address and I'll shoot you an email. It's a mess how this forum has PMs set up.

 

[stiphy]

Thanks my man

 

[cause4alarm]

Thanks my man

Yea be in touch.

 

[cause4alarm]

C4A -
How did the .2um work? Ive been told thats the one to use. Let us know how it went. If it worked out well, thats what Im going with.

Might as well get my number of posts up while answering your questions for others reference.

The first .2um Nalgene nylon filter that I used seemed to melt the glue/seal that's between the top funnel and the center filter region.

Reheated the deca which I was filtering (I mixed the filtered back with the unfiltered since it only filtered maybe 20mL) and poured it into another Nalgene filter exactly like the first and it filtered it all through. Who knows, maybe some filters are faulty and have defects? It seemed strange that the exact same solution will go thru one filter but not another one that is exactly the same.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

nalgene is the best filter i have used. .45um is not sterile, usually you wont have problens but just saying.

.22um is what i use

 

[Pinnacle@Rep]

Might as well get my number of posts up while answering your questions for others reference.

The first .2um Nalgene nylon filter that I used seemed to melt the glue/seal that's between the top funnel and the center filter region.

Reheated the deca which I was filtering (I mixed the filtered back with the unfiltered since it only filtered maybe 20mL) and poured it into another Nalgene filter exactly like the first and it filtered it all through. Who knows, maybe some filters are faulty and have defects? It seemed strange that the exact same solution will go thru one filter but not another one that is exactly the same.

Whats up C4A??? What u been into bro?
The answer for the phenomenon of your first pass through the filter and it breaking down and the second pass through not breaking it down my brother is very simple! You give me the computer advise and let me help u with chemistry!
When the filter breaks down the first time it is because the compounds BB and EO chemically react with the plastic (a chemical reaction occurs) when this reaction occurs the substances of BB or EO that you are using are absorbed into a mixture with the plastic causing it to melt as it is changing the chemical structure of both the plastic and the BB or EO. In other words, it's like methamphetamines, you mix Ephedrine and a few chemicals that causes a chemical reaction and now the ephedrine and the chemicals are no longer ephedrine and the chemicals you started with, they are now meth and some chemical byproducts.
Same goes for this, the BB or EO is chemically mixing with the plastic and both are changing molecularly causing the BB or EO to be greatly less in your 1st filtered product (no more BB and EO in your shit!) then when you refilter the BB or EO percentage is greatly reduced therefore you don't get the melting on the second pass cause the concentration of BB or EO are not strong enough now to cause the melting in excessive fashion now!
Make sense?

Here is a test! Make your batch that you normally make only this time make it with BA Powder and GSO only, while heated at approx. 80-90 degree C, filter it through your filter at about 3mm Hg no more than 5mm Hg and watch, your filter will stay in tact, then filter pure BB through and watch that your filter will deteriorate.

Happy brewing bro!

 

[cause4alarm]

Whats up C4A??? What u been into bro?
The answer for the phenomenon of your first pass through the filter and it breaking down and the second pass through not breaking it down my brother is very simple! You give me the computer advise and let me help u with chemistry!
When the filter breaks down the first time it is because the compounds BB and EO chemically react with the plastic (a chemical reaction occurs) when this reaction occurs the substances of BB or EO that you are using are absorbed into a mixture with the plastic causing it to melt as it is changing the chemical structure of both the plastic and the BB or EO. In other words, it's like methamphetamines, you mix Ephedrine and a few chemicals that causes a chemical reaction and now the ephedrine and the chemicals are no longer ephedrine and the chemicals you started with, they are now meth and some chemical byproducts.
Same goes for this, the BB or EO is chemically mixing with the plastic and both are changing molecularly causing the BB or EO to be greatly less in your 1st filtered product (no more BB and EO in your shit!) then when you refilter the BB or EO percentage is greatly reduced therefore you don't get the melting on the second pass cause the concentration of BB or EO are not strong enough now to cause the melting in excessive fashion now!
Make sense?

Here is a test! Make your batch that you normally make only this time make it with BA Powder and GSO only, while heated at approx. 80-90 degree C, filter it through your filter at about 3mm Hg no more than 5mm Hg and watch, your filter will stay in tact, then filter pure BB through and watch that your filter will deteriorate.

Happy brewing bro!

My buddy Starks, haven't heard from you in a good while, hope you're doin alright.

Well, I guess the idea of the BB causing a chemical reaction with the plastic sounds good. And that it causes the molecules between the two to lessen the actual amount of BB or EO that's in the solution, but what explains the reason that the filter became clogged on the first filter when the seal began to break down while then the solution went through the second filter just fine? If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that the break down of the plastic is then combining with the BB or EO. In a way that seems like it might be plausible, but it does seem alittle hard to believe that this chemical change is affecting 18% BB thats in the solution for 10 mins enough to allow the second attempt to filter without problems. Who knows, maybe I'm just over thinking it.

Did you ever take any pictures of the filters that you're using (or have any more info on them)? It just seemed from how you described the filters in your thread that was also similiar to this topic are different from the ones I'm using.

I'll keep you posted the next time I make a batch with what filter I use and if there are any issues. Take care buddy.

 

[cause4alarm]

also, if you did use. What pressure did you run it at and how long did it take? Ive heard they crack pretty easily.

I started at 100mmHG but then SLOWLY pumped it to ~175mmHG (just a little under the 200 mark).

If you're using a manual vacuum pump, such as a brake bleeder, always pump slowly to get to the desired vacuum.

 

[Pinnacle@Rep]

Bro, I just went back to using plain old whatman syringe filters. Not the cheap one's, the actual whatmans. I gave up on the bottle top units cause I was having the same problem as everyone else describes.
There are stainless (autoclaveable) bottletop filtering units that have a PVFD and Nylon acceptable filter discs and optional prefilters that all you have to do is change out your filter discs and sterilize your unit every cook but they are way too pricey and there should be a level of scepticism in ordering a product like that as I only found them in one scientific book, the Ficsher Scientific catalog. You have to have an account set up with this company in order to buy stuff from them and that requires an application asking many different personal information and on top of that, they report the purchase of materials from ppl that can be and are used for the manufacture of many different drugs including steroids. That is a little too freaky for me!

 

[cause4alarm]

I feel for you Starks with going the syringe filter route, I'd be sitting around all day with a swollen hand if I were to do that!!

The reason for the questions I was asking before about which bottle top filters you WERE using was because how you described them they were quite different from what myself and what I think others are using. With that being said, maybe the problems you were having were quite different from any problems myself or others have ran into?

Have you ever used one of the Millipore or Nalgene filter units that comes complete with the bottle top attached to a plastic receiver flask?

The thing is, I've ran many, and I mean many batches through the Millipore .45um PVDF membrane complete filter unit with absolutely no issues. So who knows, if those filters you were using were constructed differently than the ones I use then it's possible our problems aren't related. Just a thought.

 

[4Everfit]

Bro i bought a nalgene filter and it does not work im obviously doing somehing wrong i put it up to 5-10 psi and the pressure drops QUICKLY and it filters 1 drop every 5 seconds and pressure goes to zero ANY ideas im mad frusturated.

 

[cause4alarm]

Bro i bought a nalgene filter and it does not work im obviously doing somehing wrong i put it up to 5-10 psi and the pressure drops QUICKLY and it filters 1 drop every 5 seconds and pressure goes to zero ANY ideas im mad frusturated.

Your receiver bottle is either cracked or it's not screwed together enough. Double check that everything is tight and look for cracks before you continue and waste any of your brew.

 

[discohornet]

I gave up on the nalgene bottle top filtering a while back. EO, BB, doesn't matter, they all melt the crap out of these bottle top deals. I don't know how the "pros" do it, but it would be nice to know because sitting around and filtering each vial separately is a huge pain and waste of oil/time.

 

[tommbstone]

I use the Nalgene Complete Filter Units with Nylon Membranes Pore Size: 0.2µm
from RLS just don't use the plastic bottles it comes with. JUNK get a glass receiver bottle

but as always they are out of stock.

 

[Hatchman33]

Is this the Stainless filtering units you are talking about? I am looking to buy one and want to make sure one of these are what I need.

goo.gl/AS2xd