New cycle, Masteron & Var research log (a quest)

MrDavid9000

New member
Hello my brothers and mates in anabolic studies and technologies.
(On a quest to find a perfect fit)

I am a week into my new cycle, just wanted to do a running update.
Stats
38 y/o male
6’1. 176.6 pounds
10 years of natural training
7 previous cycles in 2 years (some where short, some were longer)
Body fat 14-17% (rough estimate but I’m pretty lean and most people I think under estimate theirs).
I train 4-5 times a week

Cycle:
Masteron prop 100mg weekly (2 pins)
Masteron E 200mg weekly (2 pins)
Anavar 20mg ed (morning)
Proviron 75mg pre work out (ever workout except leg day)
Tbol 30mg pre work out (only leg day)
Note: I do a three day split (push, pull, legs)
I have pubescent gyno, ten years ago it just seemed to go away as I work out and got leaner, with a little more muscle definition only I notice it but I think I’m being overly critical, my wife tells me I have body dismorphia when I ask her if she sees it, but I can tell when my estrogen is creeping, my nipple area gets a bit puffy and I can feel a tube inside is swelling, then I know I need to up my anti-estrogens.
This cycle I wanted to run Masteron as a virtual stand alone with some orals, I have test-350 on stand by if I loose any sexual function or poor mood, but after a week into it my sex drive is back to being 20, tons of energy and estrogen seems to be under control, but we will see as suppression sets in.
Estrogen control:
Letrozole 2.5mg every night. (Some people may say this is too much but with my experience and my body I have found this balances it out just right, I feel great and totally normal, if I see my water weight creeping (like today) I may take a letrozole in the morning and then continue my nightly regiment.

Compounds on standby:
Hcg
Clomid
Nolvadex
Aromisin
T350 (short and long Esther blend)

I will probably run this for 8 weeks then tape off for another 4 and during that time I will introduce my pct:
Hcg (only 3 weeks 2 pins a week)
Clomid 6 weeks (50/50/25/25/25/12.5) I may cut this shorter depending on how I feel maybe 3-4 weeks only
Letrozole 8 weeks (taper down)

I’m a big believer in diet is key, if you don’t eat you won’t gain, nor will you have any immune system.
I live a very active life, my health and stamina is incredibly important, I would suspect my base calorie consumption is 4000-4500.
My biggest challenge is muscle waisting from such an active life style.
I have read mixed reviews on Masteron base cycles, myself being estrogen sensitive and a high converter this seems to be a good fit, but we will see. In previous cycles I have ran dbol stand alone, with an Ai, I never loose sexual function... so we will see this time, but i appears the Masteron is binding strongly to my SBG pushing my sex drive up and allowing the orals to work more efficiently, at least this is my theory and only time will tell how this works on me.
Anyone else run Masteron as stand alone with some orals?

Results?

Cheers mates,
 
Everything looks wrong here! Your stats say you are skinny-fat and you are running a cycle with no test and a shit ton of Letro! You sir know nothing about gear at all. Stay natural-
 
Thanks for the constructive criticism.
You sir know nothing about how to communicate with people.
What would you suggest?...
test, HCG? And then when my natural test doesn’t suppress and my test is through the roof and converts like crazy what would you suggest then?...
My good man, it is you that should do more home work, there are many types of people some respond certain way, this isn’t my first ride at the rodeo.
There are so many guys out there that do gear for two or three cycles only to have huge estrogen side effects and not know why....
I’m going to suggest a theory, not everyone that takes gear has there natural test suppress, and some it doesn’t suppress at all, and if this is the case it would totally change the way they approach gear.
I would suggest; everyone to open their minds, have constructive dialogue, ask questions and have a positive involvement.
Cheers and good luck, I wish you the best.
 
None of the Compounds in your Cycle ~ Aromatise.

So why the 2.5 Mg of Letro a Day.
If it's Legit Letro, this will Crash your Estrogen, don't care how High it is.

Don't understand where or how this supposed Water Weight will come from with these Compounds.
Absolutely Impossible !
Now a Bad Diet can cause this, but you say your Diet is Good.

While I have run certain Compounds without Test ~ this is Very Individualized and for the Very Experienced User Only.

Have you done Bloodwork to confirm this High Estrogen.
You should run a Pre-Cycle Bloodwork (PrivateMdLabs ~ hormone panel for female ~ put male in the box).
This will save you some money.
Then run it again at Mid-Cycle, especially to check your Estradiol.

Cause if your Estradiol is in the Tank, you won't make any Gains.
And it will Hurt your Joints, at the Very Least..................................... JP
 
Everything looks wrong here! Your stats say you are skinny-fat and you are running a cycle with no test and a shit ton of Letro! You sir know nothing about gear at all. Stay natural-

Bro... 10 years training, 14-17% bodyfat, 176 pounds at a 6.1.... All of this AFTER 7 cycles in 2 years lol....
I'm around his size at 5.8 lol...

He has absolute no fucking idea what he's doing and he's so certain he does it will be pointless to engage in further discussion.
Its even impossible to fit in on/off/pct time in his 2 years and 7 cycles....
He'll die early but he's an adult so let him ?
 
So far one person has offered positive dialogue.
I would be suspect that the Letrozole is under dosed (which is possible I suppose). They say the first sign of low estrogen is lose of sexual function, so if in case this ai is dosed properly the estrogen should be crushed with no ability of sexual function, but here we are with no side effects.
In Canada you just can’t run to a doctor and order blood work all the time or more then twice and year and you need a very good reason, once they find out your on gear they won’t order any blood work, I have had this happen twice, once they see your blood results and they suspect you are using gear they won’t run your blood work again until your completely clean from all anabolics and they won’t do it for 6 months. So we have little choice to run off physical side effects (like the old days and they all made it through).
I am suspect that I am very estrogenic sensative. If I take any anabolics the Estrogen increases (itchy nipples then puffy, tube inside swells and feels sore, increases water weight), then start a dose of letrozole one (2.5mg) per day the estrogenic effects subside in 1-2 days, if I stop the side effects will return in 2-3 days again, the only way to maintain is daily dosing (I have tried every regiment possible, wrote down my results and it always returns to a daily dose has the best results).
-> I know there are many many guys like this, 90% are too afraid to say it on a forum, most responses they will get will be similar to the above, some guy(s) with several year experience, where they love to cycle test (“test is best”) and they can pin a gram twice a week and no bad sides happen and they think thats how it is for everyone.
If i pin 250mg of test a week and close to the third week I’ll have estrogen sides like as if I were doing 3 grams, and that’s if I took arimidex eod too.
If anyone wants to disagree I’m up for a 100% positive dialogue, please offer suggestions and the science behind what your suggesting.
Comments like “you know nothing, stay natural”, your going to die young”, help no one besides offering some false sense of authority from the person making a comment, (if you really knew what you were doing, you could offer information that would result in an epiphany, but you don’t so you offer only criticism because things look “weird”, but you really don’t know, so it’s better to criticize and look like an expert... this is silly on so many levels).
If you disagree with the above regiment, that’s totally fine, state your reason, offer some explanation behind it, offer solutions, this is how positive dialogue works.
I know there are many guys that will be watching this thread because they have the same sides and are simply afraid to state in fear of ridicule.
Anyone else care to offer something useful?
 
Without bloodwork, you have no argument to back. Like mentioned with your stats and cycle experience, it doesn't take a guru to realize you are going about everything the wrong way.
 
“Everything wrong”.
Again no remedy. anything?.... three comments and no information provided.
I would encourage you to engage in positive dialogue.. come on....

Without bloodwork, you have no argument to back. Like mentioned with your stats and cycle experience, it doesn't take a guru to realize you are going about everything the wrong way.
 
Do they not have Lab Corpe in Canada? Seriously asking cause I don’t know. Going to the doc in the great USA to get labs on the regular will break you unless you have crazy good insurance. That’s why private md labs is used here so much. You might look into them.
Trying to regulate your E on feeling alone is extremely difficult especially if you’ve never done labs before to have any idea what to judge off of...at least me personally, there may be more experienced users than can judge it
 
Not condoning no test. But I know a dude who ran masteron only for a few months and it completely dissipated his gyno to nothing. I'm still keeping that in my back of tricks whether it is kosher or not.
 
Mr.David9000:
Go to the Doctor for a Physical, tell him you Feel Tired, have No Sex Drive.
In other words, you think you have Low-T.

And ask for an Estradiol to be done, there's plenty of Medical Studies to back this test being done along with Total Test.
At least then you'll have an idea of what's going on.

Cause in All Honesty, I have to agree with some of the other Posters.
With 7 Cycles under your Belt, you should be at least in the Low 200 Lb range.

I'm 6'1", and the last time I was 176 Lbs, I was in 8th Grade ~ No Joke.

So if you've been doing Letrozole with all your Previous Cycles, I suspect this is the reason you are Not Growing.
Just because you still have your Libido, in No Way means your Estrogen Level isn't Low ~ varies with the Individual.................... JP
P.S.
One more Recommendation ~ Drop the Letro in favor of Aromasin.
When you Stop Letro ~ you get Estrogen Rebound, cause the Bond only lasts while the Letro is Active in your System.
This is why when you Stop your Letro, your Side Effects come back within a couple days.
Letrozole has a Half-Life of about 2 Days !

Aromasin is a Suicidal Inhibitor ~ so it makes a Permanent Bond with the Aromatase Enzyme ~ only New Activity can occur.
 
Mr.David9000:
Go to the Doctor for a Physical, tell him you Feel Tired, have No Sex Drive.
In other words, you think you have Low-T.

And ask for an Estradiol to be done, there's plenty of Medical Studies to back this test being done along with Total Test.
At least then you'll have an idea of what's going on.

Cause in All Honesty, I have to agree with some of the other Posters.
With 7 Cycles under your Belt, you should be at least in the Low 200 Lb range.

I'm 6'1", and the last time I was 176 Lbs, I was in 8th Grade ~ No Joke.

So if you've been doing Letrozole with all your Previous Cycles, I suspect this is the reason you are Not Growing.
Just because you still have your Libido, in No Way means your Estrogen Level isn't Low ~ varies with the Individual.................... JP
P.S.
One more Recommendation ~ Drop the Letro in favor of Aromasin.
When you Stop Letro ~ you get Estrogen Rebound, cause the Bond only lasts while the Letro is Active in your System.
This is why when you Stop your Letro, your Side Effects come back within a couple days.
Letrozole has a Half-Life of about 2 Days !

Aromasin is a Suicidal Inhibitor ~ so it makes a Permanent Bond with the Aromatase Enzyme ~ only New Activity can occur.

Taking letro and trying to grow? Meh! Need estro to grow! So overlooked by people these days.
 
Thanks clman,
So your input is; to allow some estrogen in and back off on the letrozole till it’s possibly needed, then commence a lighter Ai regiment.
This would make sense, I’m already on it and will update in one week from the post.
I should have stated in my original post that my life style is incredibly active, (without getting into my personal life) I have something that would be an equivalent to a roofer by day and weekends I’m a long distant runner (this isn’t what I do but close enough), my biggest struggle is muscle waisting effects from such an active life style.
Cheers and thanks for the constructive suggestion.

Best regards,
Without bloodwork, you have no argument to back. Like mentioned with your stats and cycle experience, it doesn't take a guru to realize you are going about everything the wrong way.

Taking letro and trying to grow? Meh! Need estro to grow! So overlooked by people these days.
 
Thanks JP,
Great reply!
I should have also state that last year I was 161 pounds, so in one year I have gained 15 pounds, very long story short is a strict “Keto diet” (wife’s idea) for a year really broke my metabolic rate, muscle waisted and leaned me out like a nut, I did several cycles during that time and gained zero, possibly the only benefit to the cycle was it slowed some muscle waisting at best. Previously to that (3 years ago) I was 193.
Last year I did blood work and my estrogen was mid normal, test was 780, I can’t remeber the rest off the top of my head, lactine was not tested. I was clean and natural for 90 days previous to test.
These are varying factors that no one considers before making comments on “how ridiculous my gains were for ten years”.... people do things that make things change all the time.
Cheers and thanks for the input.

Best regards,

Without bloodwork, you have no argument to back. Like mentioned with your stats and cycle experience, it doesn't take a guru to realize you are going about everything the wrong way.

Mr.David9000:
Go to the Doctor for a Physical, tell him you Feel Tired, have No Sex Drive.
In other words, you think you have Low-T.

And ask for an Estradiol to be done, there's plenty of Medical Studies to back this test being done along with Total Test.
At least then you'll have an idea of what's going on.

Cause in All Honesty, I have to agree with some of the other Posters.
With 7 Cycles under your Belt, you should be at least in the Low 200 Lb range.

I'm 6'1", and the last time I was 176 Lbs, I was in 8th Grade ~ No Joke.

So if you've been doing Letrozole with all your Previous Cycles, I suspect this is the reason you are Not Growing.
Just because you still have your Libido, in No Way means your Estrogen Level isn't Low ~ varies with the Individual.................... JP
P.S.
One more Recommendation ~ Drop the Letro in favor of Aromasin.
When you Stop Letro ~ you get Estrogen Rebound, cause the Bond only lasts while the Letro is Active in your System.
This is why when you Stop your Letro, your Side Effects come back within a couple days.
Letrozole has a Half-Life of about 2 Days !

Aromasin is a Suicidal Inhibitor ~ so it makes a Permanent Bond with the Aromatase Enzyme ~ only New Activity can occur.
 
Mr.David:
Not sure what Mid-Normal is for Estrogen.
Optimum Estrogen Levels go by Age.
So I'll give you a Chart to compare.

This is Irregardless if you are On-Cycle or TRT or Natty........................................ JP
P.S.

To answer these questions, we can go back to a 2000 Clinical Endocrinology study where they summarized a variety of hormone levels by age, including estradiol:

20-29: 102.9 pmol/l
30-39: 94.17 pmol/l
40-49: 90.76 pmol/l
50-59: 81.02 pmol/l
60-69: 78.82 pmol/l
70-80: 80.37 pmol/l
The above are in international units and not the standard pg/ml, so let me do that conversion for everyone reading this in the U.S. (The appropriate conversion factor is 3.671.)

20-29: 28.0 pg/ml
30-39: 25.7 pg/ml
40-49: 24.7 pg/ml
50-59: 22.1 pg/ml
60-69: 21.5 pg/ml
70-80: 21.9 pg/ml
 
To Mr David:
The reason why everyone is being so Critical.
Is not just your Weight, but your Body Fat Percent.
Which is what we call ~ Skinny Fat !

You really want your Body Fat to be No Higher than 12% or 13% when starting any Cycle.
This is where my Body Fat is Currently, and I'm 65.
Shooting to get it lower over the next couple of weeks..................................... JP
 
Thanks clman,
So your input is; to allow some estrogen in and back off on the letrozole till it’s possibly needed, then commence a lighter Ai regiment.
This would make sense, I’m already on it and will update in one week from the post.
I should have stated in my original post that my life style is incredibly active, (without getting into my personal life) I have something that would be an equivalent to a roofer by day and weekends I’m a long distant runner (this isn’t what I do but close enough), my biggest struggle is muscle waisting effects from such an active life style.
Cheers and thanks for the constructive suggestion.

Best regards,

I do something that equates to a marathon runner myself every day. Though it’s only for about 30 min...sometimes twice a day. Lol...man I love being on cycle
 
Mr. David we haven't talked so first Welcome to the board. :wavey:

Kudos to you for weathering the bashing. Speaking for myself I've been on both sides. So I just let it go. O'logy is still a great forum with abundance of experienced and knowledgeable members. Gotta remember why we are all aboard. I believe we all want to learn more about the safest and most greatest most efficient way to put on MM. And as you want LEAN MM.

When I read your first post I said to myself "OMG, what the fvck. This guy :Pat:

I agree with you in the matter of different genetics will produce many different outcomes. This of course encompasses most everything we do concerning this sport and style of living. Side effects are much the same for all in character but the extremes are due to the genetics as well as the compounds and the cycle protocol. Even diet is not metabolized ( of course) and cause growth exactly like others..... So enough on that.

You do need the Blood work and my buddies have given you info you might be able to use, hopefully to get better and more accurate lab markers as to where your numbers are. You should know that we would want labs so please don't get your panties in too big of a wad. :laugh:

I would like to see you get those labs and post them for discussion. Also keep this log if you will and keep us posted. Rather then argue lets see where you stand with the number so WE ALL can learn something here.

I'm interested in what's up with the facts not supposition's. :)

OMM
 
Last edited:
Back
Top