New to Low-T and looking for advice/thoughts

Oh, and FWIW, I've been working out since November...not really getting anywhere strength/size why so last week I decided to step away from isolation routine and jump into a compound exercise routine 3x's a week. Madcow 5x5 for you lifters.....don't know if it was a fluke or what, but I was actually horny-TWICE this weekend, first time in literally YRS I needed to give it to the ole lady LOL. She was all like WTF's the matter with you? you never want to have sex?

So maybe the extreme stress with this workout is in fact making some T for me?? Just seemed weird to start a new grueling routine and then got horny after all these yrs of never wanting anything to do with the pussy...pretty cool. So heading down in a few to kill my body again, never have done a workout like this, and never knew what it was like to want to puke after a workout...so obviously Ive been doing it wrong. I really love hating this new routine LOL.
 
Just got back from enodcronologist, I feel like a horse with a carrot dangling in front of me. She read the little proposal I had written up and asked where I got the protocol for initial TRT dosages, since it is what she starts her patients on with low T. I got to get labs tomorrow for her, I got the paperwork in the car and it's the FULL panel, so that put me at ease knowing I finally had a doctor that is going to check every little stinkin thing, and she said depending on results it could wind up with a few more tests and possible MRI of pituitary gland....basically textbook bloodhounding by doctor to see the EXACT cause of why my T is low since it affects so many other things.

The BAD news, she asked how long I've been off Clomid, and said that she has no problem writing the script, but insurance wont do anything until I'm back in the 200 range...aka bottom end of that fucking scale they always refer back too...argh. I told her if it makes any difference, I don't give a hoot about insurance, I just want to feel better, and if you want to write the script after we get these tests all done, I will GLADLY pay out of pocket for them so I don't have some idiot insurance person preventing me from feeling normal. She just kinda knodded but never said yes or no to that...so there's hope. I have another appointment scheduled in May...and I have no idea if I'll be seeing her before depending on test results or what, I get blood drawn tomorrow and they said it's usually a 24hr turn around and they'll call with results, so I'll know more in a few days.

Anyhow, just updating "progress", for all practical purposes from our talk, I think I found my doctor based on what soo many on here have shared through their horror stories. Now as you all know....hurry up and wait...but sounds like there's light at the end of the tunnel for me hopefully.
 
2/18 just more update to stay in my own topic. Endo did full lab, everything was in normal range except cortisol which was low, got cold called twice asking if I was taking any sort of testosterone booster, I laughed and said no, that is why I'm coming to you to get help. Cortisol was 3.5 I believe, Test came back this round at 291 so it continues it's down hill slide since stopping the clomid Jan 10th and when I was 396.

Today had to do an infusion where they inject some synthetic shit to stimulate the adrenal glands to kind of isolate and point where my low level problems are stemming from, they draw blood when you get there as baseline, inject the shit and wait 30 minutes-draw more blood, wait 60 minutes and draw again....ACTH test is what they call it.

Endo called and we got my MRI scheduled next Monday morning and she said once I'm done with that we pretty well have all our bases covered and we can start moving forward with a solution...just told her I hope so.

So like many that found doctors to work with them, the hurry up and wait is in effect still, but I'm glad she's checking everything she's checking and am soo looking forward to getting this TRT thing going to see if it indeed makes a difference...cant get any worse than things are now.
 
2/18 just more update to stay in my own topic. Endo did full lab, everything was in normal range except cortisol which was low, got cold called twice asking if I was taking any sort of testosterone booster, I laughed and said no, that is why I'm coming to you to get help. Cortisol was 3.5 I believe, Test came back this round at 291 so it continues it's down hill slide since stopping the clomid Jan 10th and when I was 396.

Today had to do an infusion where they inject some synthetic shit to stimulate the adrenal glands to kind of isolate and point where my low level problems are stemming from, they draw blood when you get there as baseline, inject the shit and wait 30 minutes-draw more blood, wait 60 minutes and draw again....ACTH test is what they call it.

Endo called and we got my MRI scheduled next Monday morning and she said once I'm done with that we pretty well have all our bases covered and we can start moving forward with a solution...just told her I hope so.

So like many that found doctors to work with them, the hurry up and wait is in effect still, but I'm glad she's checking everything she's checking and am soo looking forward to getting this TRT thing going to see if it indeed makes a difference...cant get any worse than things are now.

What were your LH and FSH and Prolactin at this time?
 
As of 2/5/14
LH- 2.9 miU/ml
FSH- 3.9miU/ml
Prolactin- 5.6ng/ml

All those came back normal. Cortisol was low/red flagged at 3.4 and that's why I had that test/blood infusion yesterday. Endo literally just called and said they got results back and body responded like it should've with the big dose in the ACTH test by tripling cortisol output.....but not I have to do it all over again with a tiny dose to see what happens so their going to call back with that date/time. Only takes an hour but PITA doing all these never ending doc appointments though I know ultimately it's needed and the price I'm paying to get on the road to recovery. Basically the high dose ACTH test showed them adrenal gland is functioning properly, and the test is designed to say it's a pituitary problem or adrenal gland problem...well with adrenal gland doing what it should, now the low does of the ACTH test will test pituitary response, along with the mri of it next Monday so I think they're closing in on the exact cause of my low-T.

Testosterone is taking awhile to go back down, way I feel somedays I think it's lower than normal, other days are just normal feel like crap days we all get/got used to. She said insurance wont cover TRT until Im back where I started at 179-200, but with all these fricken tests to PROVE the source of the problem, and the rememdy is TRT...might be able to jump ahead a month of two and get this going sooner than later. Endo was thinking May I should be back to rock bottom as the clomid results wore off, and like I said
Jan 10th was last day on clomid with old urologist test level was 396
Feb 5 Testosterone was down to 291 so dropped 105points in about a month, so figure another month I'll be back in the gutter
 
As of 2/5/14
LH- 2.9 miU/ml
FSH- 3.9miU/ml
Prolactin- 5.6ng/ml

All those came back normal. Cortisol was low/red flagged at 3.4 and that's why I had that test/blood infusion yesterday. Endo literally just called and said they got results back and body responded like it should've with the big dose in the ACTH test by tripling cortisol output.....but not I have to do it all over again with a tiny dose to see what happens so their going to call back with that date/time. Only takes an hour but PITA doing all these never ending doc appointments though I know ultimately it's needed and the price I'm paying to get on the road to recovery. Basically the high dose ACTH test showed them adrenal gland is functioning properly, and the test is designed to say it's a pituitary problem or adrenal gland problem...well with adrenal gland doing what it should, now the low does of the ACTH test will test pituitary response, along with the mri of it next Monday so I think they're closing in on the exact cause of my low-T.

Testosterone is taking awhile to go back down, way I feel somedays I think it's lower than normal, other days are just normal feel like crap days we all get/got used to. She said insurance wont cover TRT until Im back where I started at 179-200, but with all these fricken tests to PROVE the source of the problem, and the rememdy is TRT...might be able to jump ahead a month of two and get this going sooner than later. Endo was thinking May I should be back to rock bottom as the clomid results wore off, and like I said
Jan 10th was last day on clomid with old urologist test level was 396
Feb 5 Testosterone was down to 291 so dropped 105points in about a month, so figure another month I'll be back in the gutter

Need normal ranges included as well.
 
Ill grab them tomorrow..fixin to head to work so no time to log onto medical site and get all the info and post up...cant copy andnpaste on their site and lab results have a seperate tab to click on with scales
 
Try this again:

As of 2/5/14
LH- 2.9 miU/ml range 1.5-9.3 mIU/ml
FSH- 3.9miU/ml range 1.4-18.1 mIU/ml
Prolactin- 5.6ng/ml Said "Dilution 1:2=5.8 ng/ml" didn't give a range for a 39yr old 205lb male
 
I have similar issues to yours. Been off TRT for a year or two after 100mg shots per week did nothing for me after the first month. From the research I have done you have innapropriately normal levels of fsh and LH. That means your in normal range, but your LH should be much higher in the range with your pituitary trying to compensate for the low T levels. Your feedback loop to your hypothalamus/pituitary may be messed up. Perhaps a head injury, tumor, or too much estrogen interfering and telling your glands you are good on test levels. I just signed up so this is definitely speculation On my part.
 
I have similar issues to yours. Been off TRT for a year or two after 100mg shots per week did nothing for me after the first month. From the research I have done you have innapropriately normal levels of fsh and LH. That means your in normal range, but your LH should be much higher in the range with your pituitary trying to compensate for the low T levels. Your feedback loop to your hypothalamus/pituitary may be messed up. Perhaps a head injury, tumor, or too much estrogen interfering and telling your glands you are good on test levels. I just signed up so this is definitely speculation On my part.

Sounds shitty but had lots of head trauma growing up...spills and falling out of trees a few times requiring stitches and confirmex concussions, and not to pity party but grew up in very abusive household till i jetted at 14 but was knocked out cold on numerious occassions by psycho mother or drunk step dad...so yeah, could be
 
Sorry to hear about the family life. Did you develop normally or did you suspect low T during puberty? Trauma could have effected you earlier if you had symptoms after you got hit.
 
Water under the bridge and i came out a better man because of it...grew up learning whT i didnt want to be and how not to raise a family. Got great wife and two wonderful kids that love and respect us/know they can talk to us about anything.

No i developed early actually, i remember 6th grade locker room and was one of about 2 of us sportin full pubes down there lol. Development wise nothing abnormal, was always top of the class grade wise. About 18yrs old i developed some severe anxiety issues seemingly outnof nowhere that have stuck with me my entire life since...life altering anxietys to where i miss/sit out on going places cuz it just freaks me the phuck out. Went to head doc and they put me on a few different ssri meds and i stoppd because the side effcts of those meds were making life worse while not fixing my problem.

Did the small dose acth test today so all i got left is mri monday morning then hopefully start fixing my problem
 
What the hell is how I'm feeling today, was in a rage yesterday after talking to doc's nurse...the only ones that call to speak with patients. Called Wed to see how low dose acth test went and if they got results from MRI I did on Monday...well, my endo and her staff don't work on Wed, so receptionist gave me nurses voice mail. Nurse called Thursday, and now for a THIRD fricken time, she asked, "now are you sure you aren't on or haven't taken steroids?" That made me mad right away and I asked her how many damn times do you guys have to ask that question and I give you the same answer before you stop asking, NO unless you consider prednisone that docs have prescribed over the yrs for injuries/infections, then yes, I have taken steroids, other than doctor prescribed, NO.

So she says well the MRI came back good, everything looks normal, no tumors. But the low dose test is conflicting results so that is why we keep asking because the results aren't working together like they should be, the high dose acth test says your adrenal glands are functioning properly, the low dose says they are not. So doctor wants you to get a second opinion with an endo at either Mayo clinic or Iowa City...I asked with all the dang tests I've had to do over the last month for you guys, cant you just email the results to another endo to get his take? Why do I have to take more time off work and more than likely redo everyone of these damn tests for them like I did for you since doctors for some reason never trust lab results coming from another doctor?

She says if I goto Mayo, yes I would have to retake everything because Mayo will not use any results from anybody, they want their own. Iowa City will refer to recent labs...so guess now I get to make the 2hr trek whenever they set that damn appointment up and see what kind of fuckin run around that all will entail.

So as of right now the things I know- labs already posted above for levels
MRI= no tumor/good to go
Cortisol= Still low....stayed low even with the low does ACTH test when it should've repressed further from what I've read on it
Testosterone is dropping still based on levels checked 3 times now in month and a half from when I got off 2 months of Clomid
Supposedly adrenal glands are fine since they reacted as they should to the high does ACTH test....which lead to to think it was for sure a pituitary problem...but low dose says no it's an adrenal problem...WTF??!!!

Just venting on here fellas, frustrated as hell is putting it mildly, everything was going smooth and was told after MRI (before they got low dose acth test results) we'd finally be able to start TRT treatment, but now they don't want to do anything for fear of treating me for low cortisol will make my low T issue worse, or vice versa...at least that's what I gathered from phone conversation. So today, and for awhile suffering from BOTH Low-T AND Low cortisol...been googling on it and finding anything matching that sucks.

Thanks for the vent, gunna hit the sheets for a few. Sleep getting worse, now doing 2hr bursts consistently, even when I tried benydryl that normally would knock me out and I'd feel great a few hrs after waking up, almost called in last night cuz eye's would hardly stay open, then just fought thru the night like I do most nights, starting to become quite the asshole, since I'm past extreme exhaustion and getting worse everyday.
 
Sounds shitty but had lots of head trauma growing up...spills and falling out of trees a few times requiring stitches and confirmex concussions, and not to pity party but grew up in very abusive household till i jetted at 14 but was knocked out cold on numerious occassions by psycho mother or drunk step dad...so yeah, could be

Damn, brings back bad memories. My father was an abusive alcoholic. It did effect me, but I have learned to accept it, and not blame myself. But I can definitely identify with you.
 
Damn, brings back bad memories. My father was an abusive alcoholic. It did effect me, but I have learned to accept it, and not blame myself. But I can definitely identify with you.

I've never blamed myself, even as a young kid getting choked out on the couch by my mother and the devil in her eye's doing it, I knew even back then she was batshit crazy, but obviously couldn't get myself out of the situation from 5-13yrs old...so ya do like we do and go thru it. I'd tell grandparents about it, and either they'd say something to ma...and then she'd take it out on me for telling them, or they'd do nothing...and actually when I got older I did harbor animosity towards my grandparents over the whole situation because I begged for help basically and nothing was done; just more beatings day/night till they got divorced and one day (by then I'd been working out and getting good gains) ma pulled back for her patented straight on nose punch, I grabbed her right knuckle as she swung in, grabbed her by the throat and slammed her into the fridge and told her no more. Her eye's got huge and you could see the devil in them fade fast the second I grabbed her, almost like she became a different person when "called out".

And that was the day I packed my bags full of basic clothes and moved out, grandparents took me in and I spent the rest of my time living there thankfully...a nice quite house for once, no fear of being woke up with a punch to the face/ribs/gut in the middle of the night being accused of shit that didn't even make any damn sense. Craziest part, I basically have nothing to do with her (mom) and the few times she's acted a fool and I start calling her out on her shit, she honestly acts like she has no recollection of any of it. Bitch is a fuckin nutjob.
 
So when are you going to call IMT and work with people who get it?

I have contacted them and my goal as a family man is Trying not to go bankrupt since this is a lifelong ordeal, i know its doc written scripts but have found some places to get the same thing for literally 1/5 the cost..private scripts thru imt abd private labs that cloestest to me is a 2hr one way drive....when i can do this legit for $4 every two months thru insurance and labs 2minutes from home.
 
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I've never blamed myself, even as a young kid getting choked out on the couch by my mother and the devil in her eye's doing it, I knew even back then she was batshit crazy, but obviously couldn't get myself out of the situation from 5-13yrs old...so ya do like we do and go thru it. I'd tell grandparents about it, and either they'd say something to ma...and then she'd take it out on me for telling them, or they'd do nothing...and actually when I got older I did harbor animosity towards my grandparents over the whole situation because I begged for help basically and nothing was done; just more beatings day/night till they got divorced and one day (by then I'd been working out and getting good gains) ma pulled back for her patented straight on nose punch, I grabbed her right knuckle as she swung in, grabbed her by the throat and slammed her into the fridge and told her no more. Her eye's got huge and you could see the devil in them fade fast the second I grabbed her, almost like she became a different person when "called out".

And that was the day I packed my bags full of basic clothes and moved out, grandparents took me in and I spent the rest of my time living there thankfully...a nice quite house for once, no fear of being woke up with a punch to the face/ribs/gut in the middle of the night being accused of shit that didn't even make any damn sense. Craziest part, I basically have nothing to do with her (mom) and the few times she's acted a fool and I start calling her out on her shit, she honestly acts like she has no recollection of any of it. Bitch is a fuckin nutjob.

My mother was a nut job too. She would throw stuff at me, silverware, what ever. I would duck behind the dining room table. Don't even remember what set her off. I was about 6. One time my father was drunk and turned on bath water. I got in and it was scolding hot. He made me sat down. Just crazy stuff. I thought I was a bad kid. I grew up on edge. I found alcohol and drugs at an early age to cope. It eventually bit me in the arse. Basically stopped drinking at 33.
 
Yet another update. Had to drive down to Iowa City to talk with Endo down there today for a second opinion because my endo didn't want to do something that could possibly cause more/different problems. Iowa City hospital is like a mini Mayo Clinic, top notch docs treating all sorts of medical problems from patients all over the world...it's just an uneasy feeling when your referred down there given that fact.

Anyhow, spent a little over an hour talking with this guy, he was going over all the past 5 month labs and tests, asking questions starting from childhood to current, he made his assistant call my allergy doc to see if they had any steroids mixed in with my monthly allergy shots that may have been the reason throwing cortisol levels off...which it wasn't those. I asked why this is such a special case she referred me to you, and he just said it's very unusual to see somebodies cortisol levels this low, no matter what time of day your blood is drawn, it's just consistently low all the time and that's not normal. So he is running labs on a blood draw I did before leaving to check for low iron since he said in very rare cases when a body doesn't absorb and utilize all the iron, it can make deposits which can interfere with the signal the pituitary gland is putting out to the boys to make more T. Also told me unfortunately there is no test they can perform to test JUST the cortisol production, it was such a rare test even 20 yrs ago, they stopped making the medicine needed to perform it.

BUT bright side, he said looking over everything, and depending on blood work let's get things going to start giving artificial T once I get your labs back. Gave me the choice of pellets, patches, gel, injections. Told him I wanted injections, so HE wants to start me on 100ml/wk and go like that for a few months to see where my levels go. I asked him about doing half doses twice a week to help cut down on estrogen conversion or riding the hormonal roller coaster, he just said right now I want you to follow this once a week protocol, I want to see where your at a few days after your shot and where your at a day before your shot so I can monitor your highest and lowest levels. Once he can establish a pattern, once we can find a level I feel good at that doesn't involve any charting, graphs, but how I feel, if I want to switch over to two small doses a week, he doesn't have a problem with that, but give him a few months to get results he needs before doing my own thing.

So light at the end of the tunnel perhaps?? We'll see, seems lately just when I think I'm home free, something else weird happens. Glad they're being this thorough and making sure I don't have any other weird underlying problems. I also asked early on, what would the harm be in trying test injections vs treating the low cortisol, and just like I had read he told me that treating cortisol is Pandora's box, and it opens up a whole lot of problems with other side effects when they don't nail it down right away for exacting dosages and exact times to administer doses...like with me working out, I would need a higher than normal dose shortly after than typical....whereas T rteplacement can be stopped at anytime and they can deal with the side effects of getting body to restart production, so the T replacement is the safer place to start to see what will happen.

One kinda funny thing, he said you know, most doctors would look at all your symptoms and suggest you do anti depressants...I said yeah, been down that road and aint going back since the side effects of SSRI'
s are worse than problem they're supposed to treat
 
Glad to hearnp you made progress. Make sure you monitor estradiol once your start using exogenous testosterone.
 
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