Next cycle, Test/Tren.. possible oral kickstarter?

[mr.mcgoo]

My next cycle is going to consist of:

Test E @500mg/wk weeks 1-12
Tren Ace @300mg/wk weeks 2-12

PCT - Nolva, Clomid.. possibly Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) this time, although I haven't used it in the past and I've recovered just fine

Diet's already completely planned out

Stats:
24 yrs
6'1
190lbs
12% BF

So, I'm contemplating kickstarting my next cycle with orals. Thinking dbol or tbol. My experience consists of three cycles, 2 test only and 1 test/tren.. all injectables. I've tried to shy away from orals due to their liver/kidney toxicity but I'm seriously tempted to kick start my next cycle with some. The reason being that I hate the 4-5 week wait until the test really kicks in, although I know the tren will be hitting hard around week 3. I'm normally pretty patient with my cycles since I only like to do 1 or 2 per year, max. So what I'm trying to say is that I want to be making as many gains as possible throughout since I keep my AAS usage frequency to a minimum. So I'm looking for personal opinions.. Is it worth it? I was thinking 10 or 20mg/day weeks 1-5. My only concerns are is a short 5 week period really going to tax my body that much? Also, my last run of test/tren yielded awesome and extremely lean gains, most of which I kept. I'm looking for the same results this time.. is the dbol/tbol going to bloat me the eff up? Which is a better choice for my situation, dbol or tbol?

 

[hard2gain]

10 weeks of tren ace is a long time. I would suggest cutting it back 2 weeks and giving the oral a shot. Also DO NOT run nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct). Just do the clomid. Nolva aggravates progesterone/prolactin gyno which you will hate your life for!

Personally If you can swing it I would suggest tbol at 60mg a day. I dislike dbol personally it gives me worse sides than anything. Also tbol doesn't convert to estrogen so with your cycle the way it is you'll see a lot more of your lean muscle gains from the tbol leading into the tren. Dbol is just gonna puff you up which isn't what your looking for going into a tren cycle you know?! Good luck to you.

 

["200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.]

agree...tbol is a better choice.

why dont you just run tren e?

 

[0tj0]

Also DO NOT run nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct). Just do the clomid. Nolva aggravates progesterone/prolactin gyno which you will hate your life for!

Im not saying your wrong... but what?! I thought nolva was like the base of PCTs?? Ive never heard anything diffrent.

 

["200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.]

Im not saying your wrong... but what?! I thought nolva was like the base of PCTs?? Ive never heard anything diffrent.

if there was one I would pick to do on its own then I would pick clomid...but the best pct tried and true is clomid and nolva bro

 

[coltmc45]

10 weeks of tren ace is a long time. I would suggest cutting it back 2 weeks and giving the oral a shot. Also DO NOT run nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct). Just do the clomid. Nolva aggravates progesterone/prolactin gyno which you will hate your life for!

Personally If you can swing it I would suggest tbol at 60mg a day. I dislike dbol personally it gives me worse sides than anything. Also tbol doesn't convert to estrogen so with your cycle the way it is you'll see a lot more of your lean muscle gains from the tbol leading into the tren. Dbol is just gonna puff you up which isn't what your looking for going into a tren cycle you know?! Good luck to you.

Not true. Many many many people have ran tren/test deca/test (myself included on the deca) and never had any prolactin issues. As long as you keep your e in check with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you shouldn't have prolactin issues but it's always always a good idea to have some caber or prami on hand just in case. Run clomid and nolva AND Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) AND some aromasin in post cycle therapy (pct).

To the op, what's your diet like? Just wondering cuz you're 190 at 6' 1" and you've ran 3 cycles. Might think about hitting 3J the resident nutritionist up before you do another cycle to get your diet dialed in.

 

[DADAWG]

some do say that nolva and progesterone/prolactin drugs are a bad combo , im not sure but why risk it .

 

[coltmc45]

some do say that nolva and progesterone/prolactin drugs are a bad combo , im not sure but why risk it .

I have heard that about taking nolva DURING cycle for gyno issues but not in post cycle therapy (pct). But I wouldn't take nolva for gyno anyways. Love my stane.

 

["200lbs is 200lbs" H.L.R.]

actually colt the nectar of the gods is tren

and I have never once had an issue with nolva after tren or deca and for that fact never heard of anyone that has had an issue with it. Complete myth imo

 

[PaiN iiS pLeasuRE]

ive never ran dbol but i just ran tbol for 7 weeks at 50 to 100mg per day oxide labs in sealed aluminum type packaging deff legit ill post a pic sometime.... i was not impressed...mike arnold posted a great thread about dbol check it out

 

[mr.mcgoo]

Not true. Many many many people have ran tren/test deca/test (myself included on the deca) and never had any prolactin issues. As long as you keep your e in check with an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) you shouldn't have prolactin issues but it's always always a good idea to have some caber or prami on hand just in case. Run clomid and nolva AND Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) AND some aromasin in post cycle therapy (pct).

To the op, what's your diet like? Just wondering cuz you're 190 at 6' 1" and you've ran 3 cycles. Might think about hitting 3J the resident nutritionist up before you do another cycle to get your diet dialed in.

I've only done three cycles over the past four years. All were cut cycles.. I'm looking to make this one more of a lean-bulk. It also doesn't help that I'm an extreme hard-gainer. I feel my diets good, but I'll hit up the diet forum anyway.. can't hurt I suppose.

 

[China_Wall]

10 weeks of tren ace is a long time. I would suggest cutting it back 2 weeks and giving the oral a shot. Also DO NOT run nolva in your post cycle therapy (pct). Just do the clomid. Nolva aggravates progesterone/prolactin gyno which you will hate your life for!

Personally If you can swing it I would suggest tbol at 60mg a day. I dislike dbol personally it gives me worse sides than anything. Also tbol doesn't convert to estrogen so with your cycle the way it is you'll see a lot more of your lean muscle gains from the tbol leading into the tren. Dbol is just gonna puff you up which isn't what your looking for going into a tren cycle you know?! Good luck to you.

completely ignore the first part of the above quote... absolute BULLSHIT! nolva has been the base of post cycle therapy (pct) for 20 years now and I've NEVER in all my years of experience heard of it being a CAUSE of gyno...

clomid/nolva for post cycle therapy (pct) is solid and very effective... run an Aromatase inhibitor (AI) (arimidex or aromisin) during your cycle and adding 25-50mg's of proviron wouldn't be a bad addition either.

good luck on your run bro... eat lots, train hard and get quality rest

 

[hard2gain]

I have alway heard that nolva+ 19-nors= prolactin based gyno that will have you lactating like a pregnant bitch. BUT since you guys challenged me I looked it up. I found a lot of intelligent bro's that are well known on this forum that have agreed with this in the past, but not a single study to prove any of it. So till I can find some hard evidence and not just others opinions I'll retract my statement. Sorry guys

 

[DADAWG]

I've only done three cycles over the past four years. All were cut cycles.. I'm looking to make this one more of a lean-bulk. It also doesn't help that I'm an extreme hard-gainer. I feel my diets good, but I'll hit up the diet forum anyway.. can't hurt I suppose.

that attitude is the difference between becoming a stud or a dud . your not convinced you need diet help but instead of bitching and moaning about it and getting offended your willing to check into it anyway . do NOT lose that attitude and you will succed.

 

[3J]

that attitude is the difference between becoming a stud or a dud . your not convinced you need diet help but instead of bitching and moaning about it and getting offended your willing to check into it anyway . do NOT lose that attitude and you will succed.

well said dawg

 

[JoltinJoe]

that attitude is the difference between becoming a stud or a dud . your not convinced you need diet help but instead of bitching and moaning about it and getting offended your willing to check into it anyway . do NOT lose that attitude and you will succed.

X2, attitude = life

 

[mr.mcgoo]

that attitude is the difference between becoming a stud or a dud . your not convinced you need diet help but instead of bitching and moaning about it and getting offended your willing to check into it anyway . do NOT lose that attitude and you will succed.

Yea I'll always be open to advice, no such thing as too much IMHO.

But here's another thought, what about swapping the dbol for test prop? Maybe for the first 4 to 5 weeks? Although I'm not sure what dosages I should run in a situation like this...

 

[DADAWG]

Yea I'll always be open to advice, no such thing as too much IMHO.

But here's another thought, what about swapping the dbol for test prop? Maybe for the first 4 to 5 weeks? Although I'm not sure what dosages I should run in a situation like this...

dbol or test prop while the eth kicks in is fine either way imo.