One Sarm Cyele and I've F'd myself up -- NEED ADVICE

[kenfury]

Hey guys. If anyone is familiar with me on this forum, I'm a formerly natural lifter looking to try a Sarm a few months back. After my first cycle of LGD (ran as a standalone) I may have screwed up my HPTA...

Back at the beginning of July I was tested and my levels were:
TT: 541
E2: 29

Pretty normal, middle of the range guy. I was warned of LGD's shutdown effects, but I decided that I'd just run anyway and HCG afterward. However, I realized halfway through it was a dumb idea and decided to finish four weeks instead of eight and come off.

Post levels were:
TT: 199
E2: 27

So we see a drop in both my hormones. Now, I need to mention that I did accidentally OD on GHRP6 for a week. My friend suggested I try GHRP since I was having shoulder joint issues.

So, three weeks later, no PCT, I felt better. I was waiting for my nolvadex to come in the mail and my friend suggested I forgo the nolva and go straight to HCG. So I got in touch with a doc and he prescribed me 1000IU HCG twice a week for a month.

So after my month wrapped up, I got bloodwork done and now sitting at:
TT: 296
E2: <5

Doc read it to me like a death sentence. He said I did have the option of getting on TRT for a few months and run in conjuction with 500IU HCG to see if my TT levels would come back, but he was baffled why my E2 levels were low and didn't think I'd make a full recovery. Furthermore, he thought I was lying to him through my teeth since he didn't believe Sarms were as harmful to the HPTA as steroids but... here we have evidence that they are. So what do you guys think? Should I try TRT with HCG for a few months to see if my HPTA comes back? Do I wait it out a few more weeks and get tested again? What're your thoughts?

 

[Megatron28]

So you have never ran PCT? When I say PCT, I mean Clomid and Nolva.

Note that hCG is suppressive to your HPTA. It should never be ran during PCT.

Did you ever check what your TT got up to while on HCG? That would be useful information in seeing how your testicles are responding.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, what are your LH and FSH at?

"Trying TRT with hCG" will not help your HPTA recover. That would just shut it down even more than it already is.

 

[kenfury]

So you have never ran PCT? When I say PCT, I mean Clomid and Nolva.

Note that hCG is suppressive to your HPTA. It should never be ran during PCT.

Did you ever check what your TT got up to while on HCG? That would be useful information in seeing how your testicles are responding.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, what are your LH and FSH at?

"Trying TRT with hCG" will not help your HPTA recover. That would just shut it down even more than it already is.

I was waiting for nolva to come in the mail from the Indian pharmacy. Obviously I decided to opt for the hcg before the nolva got here. But seeing as my estrogen also tanked during hcg use, would it be wise to even use it in the first place?

When they ran my bloodwork I was hoping they would run my lh and fsh. But should I go back today and get another draw to get them checked?

I also raised my concern with telling the doc that hcg does suppress the hpta because it's so similar to lh, but he told me he wouldn't prescribe me the nolva, and just hcg. If we absolutely needed it, he'd get me the nolva. So now I'm in a situation where my estrogen is tanked and I've got a stash of illegal nolvadex. What should I do?

 

[kenfury]

Lol I'm so naive... I just googled if nolva lowers estrogen... smh -.-

So, take nolvadex man? And how much?

 

[Megatron28]

I was waiting for nolva to come in the mail from the Indian pharmacy. Obviously I decided to opt for the hcg before the nolva got here. But seeing as my estrogen also tanked during hcg use, would it be wise to even use it in the first place?

When they ran my bloodwork I was hoping they would run my lh and fsh. But should I go back today and get another draw to get them checked?

I also raised my concern with telling the doc that hcg does suppress the hpta because it's so similar to lh, but he told me he wouldn't prescribe me the nolva, and just hcg. If we absolutely needed it, he'd get me the nolva. So now I'm in a situation where my estrogen is tanked and I've got a stash of illegal nolvadex. What should I do?

Why not just order Clomid and Nolva from RUI and have it in your hands on aa a few days?

Read the link below in my signature. It will tell you how to get Private blood work quickly and cheaply. You need to check LH and FSH along with your Total T again before doing anything else.

 

[kenfury]

Damn, these guys were charging me $100 for bloodwork. Megatron you are a life saver!! Gonna get my fsh and lh checked stat, brb

 

[Megatron28]

Damn, these guys were charging me $100 for bloodwork. Megatron you are a life saver!! Gonna get my fsh and lh checked stat, brb

Get the Hormone Panel for Females.

That link has been in my signature for a long time. How did you miss it? Don't you read the Stickies?

 

[kenfury]

Get the Hormone Panel for Females.

That link has been in my signature for a long time. How did you miss it? Don't you read the Stickies?

I did read the sticky. But for the longest time I was under the impression that they mail you a kit, you collect your specimen, and then mail it out. I didn't realize they gave you the option of actually stopping by a Labcorp and getting blodowork...

That said, I opted for a TRT clinic because 1. MOst of the bodybuilders locally go there for their "treatment," and 2. The doc sold me on the idea of using HCG and my LH coming back after I was done. I didn't account for the fact that they're also a business and so it's in their interest to get me dependent on TRT.

THat said, I've learned not to immediately trust people who just want my money lol

 

[kenfury]

Yo Megatron, I got my lab results back. Granted I did take 20mg nolvadex a couple hours before I got my bloods done but I didn't think it was a big deal.

Anyway here's the results:
TT: 396 (Up 100 from two weeks ago, Woot Woot!)
E2: 5.3 (Makes no sense how or why I'm that low)
LH: 4 (ref. 1.7-8.6)
FSH: 7.1 (ref. 1.5-12.4)

So, I've been taking 40mg nolva for the past few days ever since my bloods were done. What do you think, Mega?

 

[jozifp103]

Looks like you're getting back up to speed. Lgd..unlike the others, is highly suppressive. I recommend pct with all sarms but ESPECIALLY LGD.

Continue the nolva for 4 weeks...and even add clomid if you can. Finish pct and wait another 4 weeks and go back for more blood work.

 

[Megatron28]

^^^ I agree. Keep going with the Restart and give it enough time to do its thing. Good luck.

 

[kenfury]

So continue taking 40mg nolva per day and then maybe 100 clomid? And taper down in two weeks?

 

[kenfury]

Random thought: what if I started up a test cycle and my E2 levels continue to remain low. Probably back off on the AI's then?

 

[juced_porkchop]

Hey guys. If anyone is familiar with me on this forum, I'm a formerly natural lifter looking to try a Sarm a few months back. After my first cycle of LGD (ran as a standalone) I may have screwed up my HPTA...

Back at the beginning of July I was tested and my levels were:
TT: 541
E2: 29

Pretty normal, middle of the range guy. I was warned of LGD's shutdown effects, but I decided that I'd just run anyway and HCG afterward. However, I realized halfway through it was a dumb idea and decided to finish four weeks instead of eight and come off.

Post levels were:
TT: 199
E2: 27

So we see a drop in both my hormones. Now, I need to mention that I did accidentally OD on GHRP6 for a week. My friend suggested I try GHRP since I was having shoulder joint issues.

So, three weeks later, no PCT, I felt better. I was waiting for my nolvadex to come in the mail and my friend suggested I forgo the nolva and go straight to HCG. So I got in touch with a doc and he prescribed me 1000IU HCG twice a week for a month.

So after my month wrapped up, I got bloodwork done and now sitting at:
TT: 296
E2: <5

Doc read it to me like a death sentence. He said I did have the option of getting on TRT for a few months and run in conjuction with 500IU HCG to see if my TT levels would come back, but he was baffled why my E2 levels were low and didn't think I'd make a full recovery. Furthermore, he thought I was lying to him through my teeth since he didn't believe Sarms were as harmful to the HPTA as steroids but... here we have evidence that they are. So what do you guys think? Should I try TRT with HCG for a few months to see if my HPTA comes back? Do I wait it out a few more weeks and get tested again? What're your thoughts?

PCT should not include HCG, HCG ran after cycle as a pct or even with a serm i counter productive..
even without pct you should recover, but more slowly i would run a standard tamox and clomid pct for 4-5 weeks and go for blood work 8wks later.

i rec PCT after a SARMs cycle. and really i still rec it with test as a base in most cases.

 

[Megatron28]

Random thought: what if I started up a test cycle and my E2 levels continue to remain low. Probably back off on the AI's then?

You need to recover first. Running anothee cycle before recovering would be detrimental to your HPTA health.

 

[kenfury]

Ok guys I just got my bloodwork done yesterday. Mind you this is several weeks after finishing my pct of nolvadex.

Total test: 399
E2: 11
LH 4.3
FSH 5

How the heck are my numbers roughly the same as prior, the exception of FSH being two points lower?

 

[ADenver]

Ok guys I just got my bloodwork done yesterday. Mind you this is several weeks after finishing my pct of nolvadex.

Total test: 399
E2: 11
LH 4.3
FSH 5

How the heck are my numbers roughly the same as prior, the exception of FSH being two points lower?

No guarantees you will fully recover. That's a risk you assume when you cycle.

 

[Hypnotix]

I just keep reading, Nolvadex PCT.. did you even use Clomid at all?

Nolvadex just prevents build up of estrogen or aromatization at the breast site.. it may have minimal effects on Testosterone overall.

Clomid however.. Clomid pushes the pituitary gland to pump out more LH which signals your balls to pump out more T.. therefore directly affecting Test production. This is the most important drug to your recovery, period.

The two have synergy, and are both inportant. But what you're primarily after.. and what you're primarily doing to accomplish it.. is off.

 

[kenfury]

Yeah I understood that. My T before was 540 when I started cycling do I already knew going in that actual AAS or TRT was in the realm of possibility.

No I didn't use Clomid. A lot of conflicting literature on pct, so I just stuck to nolvadex. My urologist wants to see if a 6 week protocol on Clomid may help. Should I take him up on it or just go straight to test?

 

[juced_porkchop]

Why not just order Clomid and Nolva from RUI and have it in your hands on aa a few days?

Read the link below in my signature. It will tell you how to get Private blood work quickly and cheaply. You need to check LH and FSH along with your Total T again before doing anything else.

agreed!
get clomi and tamx and run a decent 4 week pct.

I keep telling people SARMS are suppressive but there are all these D*cks trying to use a "no pct needed" marketing ploy and it makes me sick