Opinions on Test/EQ/TBOL/VAR CYCLE

[younggainz]

Please provide all opinions on this cycle thank you.

1/25– WEEK 1 – EQ 600 mg Tbol 50 mg Test E 750, Test Prop 100 EOD Aromasin 12.5 EOD

2/1- week 2 - EQ 600 mg Test E 750 mg Tbol 50 mg Test Prop 100mg EOD Aromasin 12.5 EOD

2/8- week 3- EQ 600 Test E 750 Tbol 50 mg Test Prop 100 mg EOD Aromasin 12.5 mg EOD

2/15- EQ 600 mg Test E 750 mg Tbol 50 mg Test Prop 100mg EOD Aromasin 12.5 EOD

2/22- EQ 600 Test E 750 Tbol 50 Aromasin 12.5 EOD

2/29- EQ 600 Test E 750 Tbol 100mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD

3/7- EQ 600 Test E 750 Ostarine 25 mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD CJC Ipamorelin 2x/DAY 100 iu

3/14- EQ 600 Test E 750 Ostarine 25 Aromasin 12.5 EOD CJC Ipamorelin 2x /DAY

3/21- EQ 600 Test E 750 Ostarine 25 Aromasin 12.5 EOD CJC Ipamorelin 2/DAY

3/28- EQ 600 Test E 750 Ostarine 25 Aromasin 12.5 EOD CJC Ipamorelin 2x/Day

4/4- EQ 600 Test E 750 Anavar 60 – 80 mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD

4/11- EQ 600 Test E 750 Anavar 60 - 80 mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD

4/18- EQ 600 Test E 750 Anavar 60 - 80 mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD

4/25- EQ 600 Test E 750 Anavar 60 - 80 mg Aromasin 12.5 EOD

5/1- EQ 600 Test E 750 Anavar 60 -80 Aromasin 12.5 EOD HCG 1000iu

5/9- EQ 600 Test Prop 100 EOD Anavar 60-80 Aromasin 12.5 EOD HCG 1000iu

5/15- Last Week Test Prop 100 EOD Anavar 60-80 Aromasin 12.5 EOD HCG 1000iu

5/23 – PCT (potential SARM throughout) – Clomid 100 Nolva 40 CJC IPA 2x per day 100 iu

5/30 – PCT – Clomid 75 Nolva 40 CJC IPA 2x

6/6- PCT – Clomid 50 Nolva 20 CJC IPA 2x

6/13- PCT- Clomid 25 Nolva 20 CJC IPA 2x

6/20 – PCT- Clomid 12 Nolva 10 CJC IPA 2x

 

[tbonexl]

Can you edit your post so it makes a bit more sense?

 

[halfwit]

I can't give an opinion. I don't know what I'm working with here. Your age, stats, cycling history, and goals really matter. I can say it looks like one of those goofy cycles pulled off the net somewhere though. Prop AND enanthate? (hint: After four weeks you wouldn't know the difference between the two whatsoever)

 

[younggainz]

I can't give an opinion. I don't know what I'm working with here. Your age, stats, cycling history, and goals really matter. I can say it looks like one of those goofy cycles pulled off the net somewhere though. Prop AND enanthate? (hint: After four weeks you wouldn't know the difference between the two whatsoever)

If you read, it says that the test prop finishes after week four so it is essentially a kicker for the test E. The tbol finishing in week 6 (I'm assuming the EQ will kick in) is a kicker as well.

I'm 22 6'2 193lbs 3rd cycle - goals are to use compounds that will allow me to lean bulk, retain some gains post cycle and not destroy me with sides.

 

[halfwit]

If you read, it says that the test prop finishes after week four so it is essentially a kicker for the test E. The tbol finishing in week 6 (I'm assuming the EQ will kick in) is a kicker as well.

I'm 22 6'2 193lbs 3rd cycle - goals are to use compounds that will allow me to lean bulk, retain some gains post cycle and not destroy me with sides.

I am one of the few that DO read posts (I do sometimes miss things, as I am human after all), and seeing prop at the end and beginning while on an oral during the first part of your cycle is a bit overkill.

Aromasin should be run ED unless you KNOW that EOD is sufficient due to its relatively short half-life. You're pushing over a gram of test per week, so guessing on your AI dose is not recommended.

Do you have hunger issues? That's frankly the only thing I can see EQ being good for. Yes, I do have a few friends that like EQ, but it's one of those compounds that really has a specific purpose.

Third cycle by 22? I will be seeing you in the TRT forums soon.

 

[younggainz]

I am one of the few that DO read posts (I do sometimes miss things, as I am human after all), and seeing prop at the end and beginning while on an oral during the first part of your cycle is a bit overkill.

Aromasin should be run ED unless you KNOW that EOD is sufficient due to its relatively short half-life. You're pushing over a gram of test per week, so guessing on your AI dose is not recommended.

Do you have hunger issues? That's frankly the only thing I can see EQ being good for. Yes, I do have a few friends that like EQ, but it's one of those compounds that really has a specific purpose.

Third cycle by 22? I will be seeing you in the TRT forums soon.

Okay while i don't agree with you on everything you are saying I do appreciate you giving me the respect to read/answer my post.

With that being said, In no way am I running over a gram of test. I'm only running 100 mg prop for the first four weeks,stopping it, and then running it the last two weeks (as the test E is taken out). My test E dosage throughout remains at 750 mg. And why can't i run test prop and the oral at the beginning as I wait for the test E and EQ to kick in? Shutdown is shutdown right? I do agree with the aromasin comments. I've done around 6.25- 7 mg per day and that seems to be good for me. If you have a better dosage suggestion please provide it.

You seem to be bashing equipoise with no real anecdotes/studies/ or other recommendations. I have heard plenty of good things for endurance(RBC count) and vascularity as well as some lean mass based on diet. I don't plan on plundering for tren/deca/any other harsh compounds anytime soon.

In regards to your TRT comments, i think most men (not only those who use) will experience symptoms of low T eventually at some point in their lives. Maybe i'll be running hcg at low dosage throughout this cycle to be safe, however don't lecture me on the potential sides of juicing please. I am well aware of what I've signed up for.

 

[tbonexl]

Typically people use eq because it raises appetite. It helps people eat more. It does raise rbc which could get too high in,the amount of time eq is used. Blood donations are required to lower hemocrit levels while using eq. As far as deca and tren being more harsh, this can be true to an extent. Orals are more harsh then these compounds can be. As you mentioned, shut down is shut down. At your age, justifying this cycle as opposed to running tren or deca isn't a real debate. If your diet was on point and where it should be, you should be seeing plenty of gains naturally. With that being said, 500mgs of test should put you in badass shape. Running more gear to compensate for a poor diet sill just get you right back to where you started before cycle with possibly lowere natty test levels. You said you've done 3 cycles already but your stats tell a tale of their own. Gotta eat food to gain. All the gear in the world will do nothing without food. Your 22. I'm sure you know that...

 

[younggainz]

Typically people use eq because it raises appetite. It helps people eat more. It does raise rbc which could get too high in,the amount of time eq is used. Blood donations are required to lower hemocrit levels while using eq. As far as deca and tren being more harsh, this can be true to an extent. Orals are more harsh then these compounds can be. As you mentioned, shut down is shut down. At your age, justifying this cycle as opposed to running tren or deca isn't a real debate. If your diet was on point and where it should be, you should be seeing plenty of gains naturally. With that being said, 500mgs of test should put you in badass shape. Running more gear to compensate for a poor diet sill just get you right back to where you started before cycle with possibly lowere natty test levels. You said you've done 3 cycles already but your stats tell a tale of their own. Gotta eat food to gain. All the gear in the world will do nothing without food. Your 22. I'm sure you know that...

I have an extremely good diet and am rather disciplined. I'm actually floating around 8% bf at 195 and can post pictures if you don't believe me. I know what I'm doing in regards to fitting my macros and have been working out for 5-6 years now. I didn't realize we were doing a weightlifting 101 class.

Anyway not to be a dick or anything I really just want actually knowledgable opinions. The gear is in my possession and I am starting it monday. I have gotten blood work after every cycle and test levels are always higher than before... And 500 mgs of test was ok for me but 750 impresses me more. I'm a hard gainer so the hunger from EQ is nice. How often should i get blood donated and is my AI dosage ok?

 

[halfwit]

Okay while i don't agree with you on everything you are saying I do appreciate you giving me the respect to read/answer my post.

With that being said, In no way am I running over a gram of test. I'm only running 100 mg prop for the first four weeks,stopping it, and then running it the last two weeks (as the test E is taken out). My test E dosage throughout remains at 750 mg. And why can't i run test prop and the oral at the beginning as I wait for the test E and EQ to kick in? Shutdown is shutdown right? I do agree with the aromasin comments. I've done around 6.25- 7 mg per day and that seems to be good for me. If you have a better dosage suggestion please provide it.

You seem to be bashing equipoise with no real anecdotes/studies/ or other recommendations. I have heard plenty of good things for endurance(RBC count) and vascularity as well as some lean mass based on diet. I don't plan on plundering for tren/deca/any other harsh compounds anytime soon.

In regards to your TRT comments, i think most men (not only those who use) will experience symptoms of low T eventually at some point in their lives. Maybe i'll be running hcg at low dosage throughout this cycle to be safe, however don't lecture me on the potential sides of juicing please. I am well aware of what I've signed up for.

I appreciate your understanding and not jumping into a defensive stance Many folks don't like when they read something that they don't want to necessarily see.

From your OP:

1/25***8211; WEEK 1 ***8211; EQ 600 mg Tbol 50 mg Test E 750, Test Prop 100 EOD Aromasin 12.5 EOD

750 + (100x3.5) = 1,100mg/wk of testosterone total. That's over a gram.

When I said it was overkill, you'll be seeing the benefits of the tbol as your enanthate starts to reach serum levels. It has nothing to do with being shut down, but more of a waste of money as I know I personally can't tell the difference between 750 and 1g while on a potent oral. I was trying to save you money.

As far as AI dosing goes, 12.5mg ED is where I'd start at that dose of test. A blood test 4-6 weeks in will tell you for sure if that is the appropriate dose or not.

I'm not bashing EQ at all. I'm just saying it has a very distinct purpose, and appetite is really it. If you suffer from low hemoglobin, sure - having your blood turn to jello might help, but assuming you're healthy - a high hematocrit becomes a risk, not an advantage. I've personally had a HCT as high as 60%, which is not only a real danger for clots, but you start to feel like absolute shit and look bright red - prompting all sorts of questions from folks. ALL AAS does this, boldenone just happens to do it in spades.

I've never run EQ (one of the very few) as I don't see any reason to given that I can eat 10,000 kcal a day easy, and am managing hematocrit already. Like I said though, if you see a need, by all means - give it a whirl. You asked for opinions, but if I need to back up what I say with studies, I can do that too.

Just be warned, I tend to make really long replies when I do so.

I didn't lecture you. I thought about it, but it's your third cycle. I can tell you that you don't realize what you have until it's gone however. I HAVE to pin for the rest of my life, not because I want to, but because I will get sick and inevitably die if I don't. Many young guys think that it's no big deal - until I'm replying to them in the TRT forum and trying to help them get through the fact that they realized they're indeed not impervious to disrupting their HPTA permanently.

It's great that you know the risks, but don't think I'm being insulting by reminding you of them. I'm simply playing the devil's advocate.

 

[younggainz]

I appreciate your understanding and not jumping into a defensive stance Many folks don't like when they read something that they don't want to necessarily see.

From your OP:


750 + (100x3.5) = 1,100mg/wk of testosterone total. That's over a gram.

When I said it was overkill, you'll be seeing the benefits of the tbol as your enanthate starts to reach serum levels. It has nothing to do with being shut down, but more of a waste of money as I know I personally can't tell the difference between 750 and 1g while on a potent oral. I was trying to save you money.

As far as AI dosing goes, 12.5mg ED is where I'd start at that dose of test. A blood test 4-6 weeks in will tell you for sure if that is the appropriate dose or not.

I'm not bashing EQ at all. I'm just saying it has a very distinct purpose, and appetite is really it. If you suffer from low hemoglobin, sure - having your blood turn to jello might help, but assuming you're healthy - a high hematocrit becomes a risk, not an advantage. I've personally had a HCT as high as 60%, which is not only a real danger for clots, but you start to feel like absolute shit and look bright red - prompting all sorts of questions from folks. ALL AAS does this, boldenone just happens to do it in spades.

I've never run EQ (one of the very few) as I don't see any reason to given that I can eat 10,000 kcal a day easy, and am managing hematocrit already. Like I said though, if you see a need, by all means - give it a whirl. You asked for opinions, but if I need to back up what I say with studies, I can do that too.

Just be warned, I tend to make really long replies when I do so.

I didn't lecture you. I thought about it, but it's your third cycle. I can tell you that you don't realize what you have until it's gone however. I HAVE to pin for the rest of my life, not because I want to, but because I will get sick and inevitably die if I don't. Many young guys think that it's no big deal - until I'm replying to them in the TRT forum and trying to help them get through the fact that they realized they're indeed not impervious to disrupting their HPTA permanently.

It's great that you know the risks, but don't think I'm being insulting by reminding you of them. I'm simply playing the devil's advocate.

Don't worry about the long posts. In this case less is not more. I am sorry that you have to go through what you are dealing with, but may I ask what your history is in regards to aas (what have you done) and Have you tried running hcg throughout cycles?

Also how can you say I'm getting the effects of over a G of test when the test E hasn't kicked in until week 4? I would think i would only be getting the effects of prop and dose my AI accordingly. To remedy this issue Do you think I should front load with just tbol or just prop as opposed to both? I'm open to any and all advice...

How often should i get my blood donated? And will it negate the affects of the EQ? How long until hemoticrit levels rise?

 

[halfwit]

Don't worry about the long posts. In this case less is not more. I am sorry that you have to go through what you are dealing with, but may I ask what your history is in regards to aas (what have you done) and Have you tried running hcg throughout cycles?

Also how can you say I'm getting the effects of over a G of test when the test E hasn't kicked in until week 4? I would think i would only be getting the effects of prop and dose my AI accordingly. To remedy this issue Do you think I should front load with just tbol or just prop as opposed to both? I'm open to any and all advice...

How often should i get my blood donated? And will it negate the affects of the EQ? How long until hemoticrit levels rise?

I started cycling AAS after I discovered I had low testosterone. I figured I'm already paying the ultimate price, so I might as well make lemonade from the lemons I was dealt. My hypogonadism was caused by opiate use/abuse, not AAS as I was too scared of AAS in my youth. Ironic, I know.

I have a hard time counting up all the cycles I've done at this point, but if I had to guess, I'd put it around 15-20 over the last six years give or take. I started off like most with the typical test only cycle, moved up to anavar and other orals with test, then deca, winstrol (not a good experience), masteron at too high of a body fat (which had it low on my list until I tried it again at the proper body fat percentage), finally tren, m1t, 1-test, superdrol, other forms of test like TNE and varying esters, clen, albuterol, T3, DNP, IGF-LR3, MTII, insulin (I'm a diabetic), GW501516 (not super impressed), and a few other oddities that friends throw my way. Cheque drops and EQ are pretty much the only compounds I've stayed away from. The former is because I try to only let the "monster" out at the gym (I'm a bigger guy, so if I get violent or angry, people tend to freak out) - which cheque drops are known to bring about.

I use HCG twice a week in order to maintain hormone balance as I'm permanently shut down to being on TRT. I do strongly recommend using it as it has been proven to increase the odds of recovery. If I wasn't already on TRT, I know I'd want every possible advantage there is when it comes to a total recovery.

So there's a misconception about testosterone and the varying esters. Long estered testosterone does go to work immediately - it's just that it takes time for it to build up to appreciable serum levels to see the results. The reason why this matters is that the body responds pretty quickly, starting the conversion to estradiol and shutting off the HPTA. This is why AI use should start immediately, as spikes in testosterone (roughly 48 hours post injection) trigger this conversion via aromatase at an accelerated rate.

Your blood serum values wouldn't really reflect the full amount of testosterone until around week 5 or so (32 days is the average), but by that point estradiol has been running amok, causing all sorts of mayhem. Unfortunately, we don't even notice some of these until it gets really out of hand - but blood tests don't lie.

I think that if you already have the prop, you can go ahead, but tbol (your dose will likely be a little low - 75mg is usually a good dose) will be more than sufficient as it kicks in within a few days, and won't greatly impact estradiol. NAC should be started before you begin (1200-2400mg ED should be sufficient) in order to assist with the liver toxicity issues that come with oral use.

Hematocrit is a tricky bugger in that it greatly depends on genetics and just how your body responds. Due to this I can't give more than a preventative maintenance approach and say that donating before you start (getting a baseline will help you later), then every 56 days until you're done. As you're planning on going with EQ, I'd probably do another after you finish too. Slightly elevated HCT is okay, but pushing 50% or more long-term is not healthy. Athletes that do EPO or "blood doping" already have lower HCT (non-smoking being a big part on top of excellent cardiovascular conditioning), so when they inject additional red blood cells - it's a very temporary effect that their spleens take care of rather quickly.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions, please feel free to ask more if I've missed anything.

 

[younggainz]

I started cycling AAS after I discovered I had low testosterone. I figured I'm already paying the ultimate price, so I might as well make lemonade from the lemons I was dealt. My hypogonadism was caused by opiate use/abuse, not AAS as I was too scared of AAS in my youth. Ironic, I know.

I have a hard time counting up all the cycles I've done at this point, but if I had to guess, I'd put it around 15-20 over the last six years give or take. I started off like most with the typical test only cycle, moved up to anavar and other orals with test, then deca, winstrol (not a good experience), masteron at too high of a body fat (which had it low on my list until I tried it again at the proper body fat percentage), finally tren, m1t, 1-test, superdrol, other forms of test like TNE and varying esters, clen, albuterol, T3, DNP, IGF-LR3, MTII, insulin (I'm a diabetic), GW501516 (not super impressed), and a few other oddities that friends throw my way. Cheque drops and EQ are pretty much the only compounds I've stayed away from. The former is because I try to only let the "monster" out at the gym (I'm a bigger guy, so if I get violent or angry, people tend to freak out) - which cheque drops are known to bring about.

I use HCG twice a week in order to maintain hormone balance as I'm permanently shut down to being on TRT. I do strongly recommend using it as it has been proven to increase the odds of recovery. If I wasn't already on TRT, I know I'd want every possible advantage there is when it comes to a total recovery.

So there's a misconception about testosterone and the varying esters. Long estered testosterone does go to work immediately - it's just that it takes time for it to build up to appreciable serum levels to see the results. The reason why this matters is that the body responds pretty quickly, starting the conversion to estradiol and shutting off the HPTA. This is why AI use should start immediately, as spikes in testosterone (roughly 48 hours post injection) trigger this conversion via aromatase at an accelerated rate.

Your blood serum values wouldn't really reflect the full amount of testosterone until around week 5 or so (32 days is the average), but by that point estradiol has been running amok, causing all sorts of mayhem. Unfortunately, we don't even notice some of these until it gets really out of hand - but blood tests don't lie.

I think that if you already have the prop, you can go ahead, but tbol (your dose will likely be a little low - 75mg is usually a good dose) will be more than sufficient as it kicks in within a few days, and won't greatly impact estradiol. NAC should be started before you begin (1200-2400mg ED should be sufficient) in order to assist with the liver toxicity issues that come with oral use.

Hematocrit is a tricky bugger in that it greatly depends on genetics and just how your body responds. Due to this I can't give more than a preventative maintenance approach and say that donating before you start (getting a baseline will help you later), then every 56 days until you're done. As you're planning on going with EQ, I'd probably do another after you finish too. Slightly elevated HCT is okay, but pushing 50% or more long-term is not healthy. Athletes that do EPO or "blood doping" already have lower HCT (non-smoking being a big part on top of excellent cardiovascular conditioning), so when they inject additional red blood cells - it's a very temporary effect that their spleens take care of rather quickly.

Hopefully that answers some of your questions, please feel free to ask more if I've missed anything.

Nice thank you. You provided a lot of niche information that was difficult for me to find. May I ask why you stayed away from EQ?

Could i remedy the "over a gram of test problem" by injected 500 mg of test/week and 100 mg prop EOD for the first four weeks? I'll then cut the prop out and up the test to 750/week.

I do have a fear that the tbol, without prop, will shut me down before the test E kicks in and i'll have a libido issue or some lethargy... also am I busting my "nut" with the tbol at the beginning or will i keep making gains when the EQ kicks in and the tbol is stopped?

Also do you see any benefit with the SARM or peptides in my cycle?

 

[halfwit]

Nice thank you. You provided a lot of niche information that was difficult for me to find. May I ask why you stayed away from EQ?

Could i remedy the "over a gram of test problem" by injected 500 mg of test/week and 100 mg prop EOD for the first four weeks? I'll then cut the prop out and up the test to 750/week.

I do have a fear that the tbol, without prop, will shut me down before the test E kicks in and i'll have a libido issue or some lethargy... also am I busting my "nut" with the tbol at the beginning or will i keep making gains when the EQ kicks in and the tbol is stopped?

I just never thought EQ would be useful to me. My ectomorph "hard gaining" friends might really enjoy it, but I have to fight from going over in cals most of the time. That, and I'm a hyperresponder to AAS from a hematocrit standpoint. Before the red cross changed their machines, I was donating platelets every 14 days on cycle to stay below 50%. Now I have to donate whole blood AND platelets while on, or I climb really fast.

I don't think it's really a problem (I've done waaaaay more than that), but you do want to adjust your AI to meet the dose of test. Tbol will still be running the show whether or not you have the prop going as the enanthate at that dose will have you at "natty" levels within two weeks easily. Gains will be entirely up to your diet, training, and rest - you have enough anabolics there to grow, even in the first week.

Of course, you won't see the real results for awhile, but that's not because of the drugs; it just takes time for the body to turn protein and calories into muscle mass.