Please help, women or anyone with clen experience! help!

[SoftReset]

Hola once again fellas and gals!

My girl and I are looking into Clen for her. Just like a lot of women that last bit is hard to get rid of in the midsection attached to the abdominal walls. Her diet is on spot and has been fairly ketogenic for quite awhile.

Couple of questions! Below is her stats.

Age: 27
Height:4'11
Weight:105lbs

Calories:1,372
Fats:105.1
Protein:95
Carbs:3.5


Edit: the clen is liquid research chemical.
Backstory/info:

She is very strong, considering her height and size gives her an advantage sine her ROM is shorter. I've posted her main lifts and routine below. We had dropped her to 94lbs body weight, her obliques were becoming visible but then she had a slight injury and bruised one of her ribs which set her back capability in the gym a few months back and put a big strain on her mentally--she gained a bit weight at jumped to 105, I know the majority of it is water; however, she brought clen to my attention before i even thought about it. So I figured to give it a shot to see If I can get her some results quickly to really boost her motivation back to where it was. She has the determination. She's back to her normal working weights.

1.) When on Clen should she change her diet or should she continue with a ketogenic style or should I increase her calories and carbs?

2.) Because she is so small, does dosage itself matter or just as I've seen most people start low and taper up until the sides are manageable, I'm basically asking if I should take this protocol.

3.) Considering her activity level(outside of the gym she has a sedentary desk job) how much HITT training should she do If any at all? Here is a weekly run down of what I put her through, the majority of these are 3-5 sets, little rest, usually 45 seconds at most:

---------
Legs - Mon
---------
Box Squats SS w/Bosu Ball squats
Romanian Deadlift
Bulgarian Single Leg Squats
Lunges
Leg curls
Seated calf raises
Lying lateral leg raise

--------
Rest - Tues
--------
--------
Chest/Shoulders - Wed
--------
DB Flat Bench press
Incline DB Bench press
Dumbell flies
Standing Overhead Press
Lateral raises
Front raises

--------
Back - Thurs
--------
Pull ups
Bent rows
Sumo deadlift
Lat pull downs
Low Rows

--------
Legs/Arms - Fri
--------
Squats
Leg Press
Narrow stance leg press
Weighted Lunges
Leg extentions
Standing calf raises
Adductor machine SS/hip thrusts

-Tricep -
Push down
Reverse curls
Overhead extension
-Bicep-
Strict barbell curl
Hammer curls
--------------

Box squats she is capable of 225 5x3
Standard barbell squat, lowbar 135 x 10 x 3
Deadlift 135 x8-10 x 3.

Cardio relatively every day 20 minutes on lifting days, 30-45 on all rest days.

4.) I've seen 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off, either in between to use an ECA stack to continue or just keep diet in check. I've seen many lifters on here cycle 5-6 weeks at a time but from what I understand this is unhealthy and ineffective as the effects of clen don't last more then several weeks. What cycle protocol should I have her on?

5.) Ketotifen? When is this used, from what I've researched it would block the effect of clen messing with receptors making it more effective. Is this used during those two weeks when off or whenever off period? Basically when is this used?

Sorry for such a descriptive layout, I'd just rather get my ducks in order so people can help out and have the right info!

Appreciate any help!

 

[notdorianyates]

Not read it all in detail, long day! So apologies if I missed lots, is there much cardio focused working in the regimen? Perhaps some HIIT would be a useful way of combining the two approaches. Perhaps integrating a programme once per fortnight, something to finish off a workout with, tabata could be a useful way.

 

[SoftReset]

Not read it all in detail, long day! So apologies if I missed lots, is there much cardio focused working in the regimen? Perhaps some HIIT would be a useful way of combining the two approaches. Perhaps integrating a programme once per fortnight, something to finish off a workout with, tabata could be a useful way.

I was told to stay away from HITT when using clen. Hmm

 

[SoftReset]

bump, anyone else have any input? It would be greatly appreciated!

 

[DreDay187]

1) no reason to change diet on clen and no added benefits to doing so.

2) size and weight do matter in concern to certain medications and not as much for others. I have no idea about women's dosing for clen but they would in the female section. My general advice is to start low and taper up. The taper isn't really necessary but its effective for finding a dose that's tolerable. I started clen WAY too high and suffered severe cramping which left me out of the gym for 2days. I'd suggest to start at a very low mild dose of ~20mcg and adjust up by 10-20mcg every 2-3days. Remember clen can only be run 2wks at a time with 2 wks off before beta-2 receptors down-regulate. Ketotofen allows you to run it for longer. When not using ketotofin, use Benadryl the 2 off wks since anti-histamines help with the down-regulation process.

3) there's not set amount to HIIT or cardio. It depends on what she enjoys doing and can be consistent with. I prefer HIIT bc it lets me burn more calories in a shorter amount of time but its not necessarily superior and it can impact recovery from weight training. I'd suggest start off 2-3days HIIT style cardio and the other days doing more low intensity/longer duration cardio. Fasted cardio may be another option, while its not going to make huge changes their is some evidence that fatty acid transport for oxidation is slightly elevated during a fasted period.

4) 2wks on 2wks off. If you want you could do ECA for a longer period or in the breaks but most of her results will be from the kitchen and the gym. These "aids" will only make slight impacts in the big picture. Keto can prolong use since it keeps the beta-2 receptors fresh (and that's NOT ketogenic diet).

5) Ketotofin will not make clen more effective, it will merely allow you to run it longer without the "cool off" periods. Run it while running the clen.

 

[SoftReset]

1) no reason to change diet on clen and no added benefits to doing so.

2) size and weight do matter in concern to certain medications and not as much for others. I have no idea about women's dosing for clen but they would in the female section. My general advice is to start low and taper up. The taper isn't really necessary but its effective for finding a dose that's tolerable. I started clen WAY too high and suffered severe cramping which left me out of the gym for 2days. I'd suggest to start at a very low mild dose of ~20mcg and adjust up by 10-20mcg every 2-3days. Remember clen can only be run 2wks at a time with 2 wks off before beta-2 receptors down-regulate. Ketotofen allows you to run it for longer. When not using ketotofin, use Benadryl the 2 off wks since anti-histamines help with the down-regulation process.

3) there's not set amount to HIIT or cardio. It depends on what she enjoys doing and can be consistent with. I prefer HIIT bc it lets me burn more calories in a shorter amount of time but its not necessarily superior and it can impact recovery from weight training. I'd suggest start off 2-3days HIIT style cardio and the other days doing more low intensity/longer duration cardio. Fasted cardio may be another option, while its not going to make huge changes their is some evidence that fatty acid transport for oxidation is slightly elevated during a fasted period.

4) 2wks on 2wks off. If you want you could do ECA for a longer period or in the breaks but most of her results will be from the kitchen and the gym. These "aids" will only make slight impacts in the big picture. Keto can prolong use since it keeps the beta-2 receptors fresh (and that's NOT ketogenic diet).

5) Ketotofin will not make clen more effective, it will merely allow you to run it longer without the "cool off" periods. Run it while running the clen.

Much appreciated again doc! I was hoping you would respond!

So let me just get this straight.

If we follow the 2wk on 2 wk off during the "on cycle" period, keto is not necessary; however, if she wishes to continue passed 2 weeks then it would be necessary every day. So if we decide to just run clen by itself for 2 weeks, during the "off" period she would just use benedryl, pref at night I assume to help clean out her receptors before jumping back on clen 2 weeks from the initial break.

Also, last thing, I've seen people using benedryl as a sleep aid, I do understand the off cycle period; however, would she still use benedryl on cycle of clen to help deal with insomnia? I've seen people running it on cycle I just thought this would negatively effect clen--kind of confused me on what to run in conjunction with clen other than keto. Thanks a million again!

 

[DreDay187]

Much appreciated again doc! I was hoping you would respond!

So let me just get this straight.

If we follow the 2wk on 2 wk off during the "on cycle" period, keto is not necessary; however, if she wishes to continue passed 2 weeks then it would be necessary every day. So if we decide to just run clen by itself for 2 weeks, during the "off" period she would just use benedryl, pref at night I assume to help clean out her receptors before jumping back on clen 2 weeks from the initial break.

Also, last thing, I've seen people using benedryl as a sleep aid, I do understand the off cycle period; however, would she still use benedryl on cycle of clen to help deal with insomnia? I've seen people running it on cycle I just thought this would negatively effect clen--kind of confused me on what to run in conjunction with clen other than keto. Thanks a million again!

Yes, the keto will allow you to run it longer periods of time with desensitizing. It acts like the Benadryl would but better as both are anti-histamines. Keto will keep the receptors "fresh" so it could result in lower clen dosage for the same results but not by too much. If you ran just clen then yes use Benadryl. It could be used to help insomnia for the duration and you can also take it early in the day. Halfwit's comment to me was as long as he runs it before 2-3pm it doesn't affect his sleep at all. I took it am upon waking so it wore off before bed.

I use Benadryl as a sleep aid at times if I take my pre-workout to late but Benadryl doesn't always knock me out. You can use it for the duration and it wouldn't make anything worse. Think of it as an inferior substitute to ketotifen. A good caloric deficit and maybe am cardio (to fully make use of its stimulating effects) I also like usin T3 but she should be on cycle for T3 to protect against proteolysis.

When using it, don't go to high too fast, those sides are a bitch. Drink more water, at least 1-2liters extra or more. Take in extra electrolytes bc she'll be sweating more, and get some taurine to help with the cramps and pumps. I've used anywhere from 2-10g/day and the worst side effect is diarrhea I believe.

Hope that helps and wish your girl the best of luck in her goals. She should make use of the female section and def get their opinion, and I'm sure they'd love the added member. Thanks for the kind words brother.

 

[SoftReset]

Yes, the keto will allow you to run it longer periods of time with desensitizing. It acts like the Benadryl would but better as both are anti-histamines. Keto will keep the receptors "fresh" so it could result in lower clen dosage for the same results but not by too much. If you ran just clen then yes use Benadryl. It could be used to help insomnia for the duration and you can also take it early in the day. Halfwit's comment to me was as long as he runs it before 2-3pm it doesn't affect his sleep at all. I took it am upon waking so it wore off before bed.

I use Benadryl as a sleep aid at times if I take my pre-workout to late but Benadryl doesn't always knock me out. You can use it for the duration and it wouldn't make anything worse. Think of it as an inferior substitute to ketotifen. A good caloric deficit and maybe am cardio (to fully make use of its stimulating effects) I also like usin T3 but she should be on cycle for T3 to protect against proteolysis.

When using it, don't go to high too fast, those sides are a bitch. Drink more water, at least 1-2liters extra or more. Take in extra electrolytes bc she'll be sweating more, and get some taurine to help with the cramps and pumps. I've used anywhere from 2-10g/day and the worst side effect is diarrhea I believe.

Hope that helps and wish your girl the best of luck in her goals. She should make use of the female section and def get their opinion, and I'm sure they'd love the added member. Thanks for the kind words brother.

Excellent man, I really appreciate all the help once more. We are planning on picking up a research chem and sticking with a low dosage then tapering up as she can handle it. Taurine, as well as some benedryl is also added to our shopping list.

One more question, I know it's getting specific but as you know so far from my previous posts, I like to get all my ducks in line haha--benedryl, just a standard dosage would suffice? Usually 2 tabs seems to be the norm for most people at recommended dosage on the ones I've seen. Also I doubt any difference here but whether it's benedryl brand or gol ol Diphenhydramine generic wouldn't matter I take it?

My girl thanks you kindly and is reading this with me, I'm sure she'll be excited to eventually hop on the board. Also, while i'm sure I'm naggin--- below is her meal plan, mind a quick critique, when you get time, no need to respond right away.

Calories:1,372 Fats:105.1 Protein:95 Carbs:3.5

Meal 1
1 Egg= C:70 F:5 P:6 C:0 24 10 0 266
1 Egg white= C:16 F:0 P:4 C:0
Coffee & Cream= C:52 F:5 P:0 C:0
Coconut Oil= C:130 F:14 P:0 C:0

Meal 2
3 oz Chicken= C:90 F:1 P:19.5 C:0 24 21.5 1 305
1 Tbl Mayo= C:90 F:10 P:0 C:0
2 Tbl Cheesecake Pudding(heavy cream, creamcheese, sugar free syrup)= C:125 F:12.5 P:2 C:1

Meal3
2 oz Ground Turkey= C:80 F:4 P:11 C:0 19 21 0.5 250
Tbl Sour Cream= C:30 F:3 P:0 C:0.5
2 Babybel Cheese= C:140 F:12 P:10 C:0

Meal 4
1 scoop whey= C:118 F:1 P:26 C:1 16 26 1 268
3 Tbl Heavy Cream= C:150 F:15 P:0 C:0

Training

Meal 5
2 oz Chicken= C:60 F:0 P:13 C:0 23 16.5 1 283
1 Tbl Mayo= C:90 F:10 P:0 C:0
1 Tblsp Almond Butter= C:90 F:8 P:3.5 C:1
1 Tsp Coconut Oil= C:43 F: 4.6 P:0 C:0


Thanks again!

 

[notdorianyates]

1)
3) there's not set amount to HIIT or cardio. It depends on what she enjoys doing and can be consistent with. I prefer HIIT bc it lets me burn more calories in a shorter amount of time but its not necessarily superior and it can impact recovery from weight training. I'd suggest start off 2-3days HIIT style cardio and the other days doing more low intensity/longer duration cardio. Fasted cardio may be another option, while its not going to make huge changes their is some evidence that fatty acid transport for oxidation is slightly elevated during a fasted period.



5) Ketotofin will not make clen more effective, it will merely allow you to run it longer without the "cool off" periods. Run it while running the clen.

What he said ;~)

Running HIIT once per fortnight, prior to days off should allow recovery time for muscle tissue as well as keeping the body on its toes.

 

[DreDay187]

Excellent man, I really appreciate all the help once more. We are planning on picking up a research chem and sticking with a low dosage then tapering up as she can handle it. Taurine, as well as some benedryl is also added to our shopping list.

One more question, I know it's getting specific but as you know so far from my previous posts, I like to get all my ducks in line haha--benedryl, just a standard dosage would suffice? Usually 2 tabs seems to be the norm for most people at recommended dosage on the ones I've seen. Also I doubt any difference here but whether it's benedryl brand or gol ol Diphenhydramine generic wouldn't matter I take it?

My girl thanks you kindly and is reading this with me, I'm sure she'll be excited to eventually hop on the board. Also, while i'm sure I'm naggin--- below is her meal plan, mind a quick critique, when you get time, no need to respond right away.

Calories:1,372 Fats:105.1 Protein:95 Carbs:3.5

Meal 1
1 Egg= C:70 F:5 P:6 C:0 24 10 0 266
1 Egg white= C:16 F:0 P:4 C:0
Coffee & Cream= C:52 F:5 P:0 C:0
Coconut Oil= C:130 F:14 P:0 C:0

Meal 2
3 oz Chicken= C:90 F:1 P:19.5 C:0 24 21.5 1 305
1 Tbl Mayo= C:90 F:10 P:0 C:0
2 Tbl Cheesecake Pudding(heavy cream, creamcheese, sugar free syrup)= C:125 F:12.5 P:2 C:1

Meal3
2 oz Ground Turkey= C:80 F:4 P:11 C:0 19 21 0.5 250
Tbl Sour Cream= C:30 F:3 P:0 C:0.5
2 Babybel Cheese= C:140 F:12 P:10 C:0

Meal 4
1 scoop whey= C:118 F:1 P:26 C:1 16 26 1 268
3 Tbl Heavy Cream= C:150 F:15 P:0 C:0

Training

Meal 5
2 oz Chicken= C:60 F:0 P:13 C:0 23 16.5 1 283
1 Tbl Mayo= C:90 F:10 P:0 C:0
1 Tblsp Almond Butter= C:90 F:8 P:3.5 C:1
1 Tsp Coconut Oil= C:43 F: 4.6 P:0 C:0


Thanks again!

Good for her reading along, the more active role she plays in the planning the better off she'll be. Yes 2tabs is plenty or gel caps, etc. also generic or Benadryl will accomplish the same thing, that is keeping the beta-2 receptors from down-regulating.

You don't mention her TDEE so I recommend gettin her BMR from the Katch-McArdle formula or a calculator online, multiply by an activity factor (1.2-1.4 sedentary, 1.4-1.6 moderately active, 1.6+ very active/athlete) and this will give her total daily energy expenditure (TDEE). If her goal is to cut she must take in less calories than this number obviously. I see you're going for keto, and while the macros look pretty good, try and get more dietary fat since having too high a protein intake while on keto can result in gluconeogenesis. Her protein intake shouldn't be lowered either so maybe bump up the activity/cardio to compensate for the added calories if need be. This isn't hugely important but may be a little better off. Also like I told you in your thread I believe, make sure she eats her veggies . best of luck to the both of you!

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Just going to mirror some of the comments in here....

1) taurine will be a life savor. You will have cramps in the ODDEST places if you don't use it
2) Diarrhea will def happen (at least it does for me)
3)Accurate Calorie Calculator - Scooby's Home Workouts is hands down the BEST calorie calculator I've found on the web....

Use the Mifflin-St Jeor method ( calculator defaults to that; read the below link to understand why you should use that method)

Predictive Value of Equations to Calculate Your Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) Flawed: Results Can Be 14-29% Off - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

Use this to get your numbers dialed in and then cut calories here and there when appropriate...the slower you cut the more time you give your body to adapt and when you hit a sticking point give yourself another cut and so on (I usually do 50-100 cal cuts max)

4) The Ketotifen will make you drowsy as hell, so much that if you take it too late you will be whacked out the next morning. Take it early or split up the doses through the day.

5) I've never had insomina on clen...and you're talking to someone who takes in 120mcg of clen and throws down another 500mg of caffeine on top of it

 

[SoftReset]

Just going to mirror some of the comments in here....

1) taurine will be a life savor. You will have cramps in the ODDEST places if you don't use it
2) Diarrhea will def happen (at least it does for me)
3)Accurate Calorie Calculator - Scooby's Home Workouts is hands down the BEST calorie calculator I've found on the web....

Use the Mifflin-St Jeor method ( calculator defaults to that; read the below link to understand why you should use that method)

Predictive Value of Equations to Calculate Your Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) Flawed: Results Can Be 14-29% Off - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

Use this to get your numbers dialed in and then cut calories here and there when appropriate...the slower you cut the more time you give your body to adapt and when you hit a sticking point give yourself another cut and so on (I usually do 50-100 cal cuts max)

4) The Ketotifen will make you drowsy as hell, so much that if you take it too late you will be whacked out the next morning. Take it early or split up the doses through the day.

5) I've never had insomina on clen...and you're talking to someone who takes in 120mcg of clen and throws down another 500mg of caffeine on top of it

Thanks again guys! I'll check into the TDEE calculator and see if I can get a rough estimate. We went off basically whether or not she gained, maintained or lost weight with a specific caloric intake during the course of a week. So that's how we came up with the above number. I'll check into the calculators though.

 

[DreDay187]

Thanks again guys! I'll check into the TDEE calculator and see if I can get a rough estimate. We went off basically whether or not she gained, maintained or lost weight with a specific caloric intake during the course of a week. So that's how we came up with the above number. I'll check into the calculators though.

The calculators are just guesses as well. They're pretty decent starting points. If you've been tracking calories and know her maintenance there's no need for the calculators. Good luck

 

[SoftReset]

The calculators are just guesses as well. They're pretty decent starting points. If you've been tracking calories and know her maintenance there's no need for the calculators. Good luck

I just thought of another question--I've seen that some people split dosages of clen. For example, 20mcg day one--tolerable so you up to 40 mcg day 2 or 3.

Do you dosage 40 all at once? or split it 20 morn 20 night? or midday? Additionally, if that is the case, would the same stay the same for a higher dosage if needed? IE: 100mcg? Because it is a larger dose, would the split still be the same(if at all?)

Sorry for any confusion, I hope I wrote that out right..sounds right when I look at it. Hahah

 

[3J]

dre has already given you great advice.. the only thing i woould add is every second week on clen add 50mg benadryl every night

 

[DreDay187]

I just thought of another question--I've seen that some people split dosages of clen. For example, 20mcg day one--tolerable so you up to 40 mcg day 2 or 3.

Do you dosage 40 all at once? or split it 20 morn 20 night? or midday? Additionally, if that is the case, would the same stay the same for a higher dosage if needed? IE: 100mcg? Because it is a larger dose, would the split still be the same(if at all?)

Sorry for any confusion, I hope I wrote that out right..sounds right when I look at it. Hahah

Some split dosage bc of the Half life. I take it all in the am bc I don't want to take an afternoon dose and stay up worse than I normally do.

 

[SoftReset]

Some split dosage bc of the Half life. I take it all in the am bc I don't want to take an afternoon dose and stay up worse than I normally do.

dre has already given you great advice.. the only thing i woould add is every second week on clen add 50mg benadryl every night

Gotcha, that's what I was planning on doing--AM only. She has trouble sleeping as it is on specific days due to pre-workout since she trains after work, early evening. I suppose just as everything else, it's tolerance. So the timing itself doesn't matter it's just what she can handle tolerance wise with a specific dose. So if she worked her way up to 80-100mcg theres no point in splitting it as that's her tolerance.

Thank again guys