Please Share Your Protocol

[bigben66]

@RIB
Make sure they give you the right injections. In some European countries the policy for injections are Sustanon 250 ever 3 to 4 weeks or 1000 mg of testosterone undecanoate (Nebido) ever 8 to 10 weeks. Both will have you on a roller coaster ride. With days that you are getting too much and days (in case ofe Nebido weeks) that you are getting too little.

Couldn't disagree more with this ^^^^^

I've used every form of Testosterone there is... and Nebido (Undecanoate) is as stable a form of test as you'll get!

OK, it may take a month for your levels to rise, but once your level is where you want it, you'll reach a steady state like no other due to the longer ester... therefore no E2 peaks and troughs either....

I've been on Nebido for 16 months now, total life-changer!

If you have a doctor that listens to you, and considers how you are feeling, rather than planning your protocol on test results alone, then you can work on reducing the timescale of the injections (I inject every 4 weeks)

The downside to Nebido is that it's under a ten year patent, making it incredibly expensive at present, but once the patent expires I do sincerely believe that Nebido will change the face of TRT as it stands.

I mean, who wouldn't want, less injections, less peaks and troughs, no E2 sides and a smoother steady state?

 

[TRTnooby]

Couldn't disagree more with this ^^^^^

I've used every form of Testosterone there is... and Nebido (Undecanoate) is as stable a form of test as you'll get!

OK, it may take a month for your levels to rise, but once your level is where you want it, you'll reach a steady state like no other due to the longer ester... therefore no E2 peaks and troughs either....

I've been on Nebido for 16 months now, total life-changer!

If you have a doctor that listens to you, and considers how you are feeling, rather than planning your protocol on test results alone, then you can work on reducing the timescale of the injections (I inject every 4 weeks)

The downside to Nebido is that it's under a ten year patent, making it incredibly expensive at present, but once the patent expires I do sincerely believe that Nebido will change the face of TRT as it stands.

I mean, who wouldn't want, less injections, less peaks and troughs, no E2 sides and a smoother steady state?

4 weeks is twice as often as what the manufacturer advertises and most people get on Undecanoate. Are you getting the full 1000 mg injection every 4 weeks?

 

[bigben66]

4 weeks is twice as often as what the manufacturer advertises and most people get on Undecanoate. Are you getting the full 1000 mg injection every 4 weeks?

Yes, he started me off at 8 weeks, very slight improvement, dropped to 6 weeks, again, minor improvement, 4 weeks gets me to mid to upper range and feeling great!

 

[sanipialo]

Couldn't disagree more with this ^^^^^

I've used every form of Testosterone there is... and Nebido (Undecanoate) is as stable a form of test as you'll get!

OK, it may take a month for your levels to rise, but once your level is where you want it, you'll reach a steady state like no other due to the longer ester... therefore no E2 peaks and troughs either....

I've been on Nebido for 16 months now, total life-changer!

If you have a doctor that listens to you, and considers how you are feeling, rather than planning your protocol on test results alone, then you can work on reducing the timescale of the injections (I inject every 4 weeks)

The downside to Nebido is that it's under a ten year patent, making it incredibly expensive at present, but once the patent expires I do sincerely believe that Nebido will change the face of TRT as it stands.

I mean, who wouldn't want, less injections, less peaks and troughs, no E2 sides and a smoother steady state?

Some doctors use a 12 week schedule. Others do a first 2 every 6 weeks and then one injection every 12 weeks (as advised by the manufacturer). Some go as far as injecting once every 16 weeks.

Good to know you have good experience with it and your doctor is ready to look at your personal situation, rather than wait 8 to 12 weeks.

Once every 4 weeks seems high. Do you get anything else with it?

I just found you log! Great read! And it seems that you did have the problems I wrote about in my reply when you first started Nebido.

 

[cybrsage]

I started on the gels and got crazy side effects - and by crazy, I really mean crazy. I was paranoid, had high anxiety, angry, and even suicidal. My wife tried telling me I was going crazy...but the paranoia prevented me from believing her. The bottle says only 1% of people suffer from these side effects...why risk it?

 

[Captain America]

38 Years Old

6'0
Pre TRT
257lbs
BF 28.9% (dexa-scan 2 weeks into trt)
TT: 308


I've been on 100 MG Test C once a week for exactly 3 months now. No AI or HCG, I had a short stint with 3J, but didn't stick to the diet the whole time. I've had awesome energy and have been hitting the gym hard ever since starting trt.

250lbs
26% BF (dexa-scan after 1.5 months on trt)

TT: 900
E2: 50 (non-sensative)

My bodyfat is still dropping and I will be getting another dexa scan in mid December to see where I stand. In the time between the 2 dexa scans which was only 4 weeks apart I lost 3%bf, lost 6 lbs of fat and gained 8 lbs of lean mass.

Eventually I will try switching to 2xper week injections, but since I'm feeling good I figured why change it up?

 

[Alpin]

I started on the gels and got crazy side effects - and by crazy, I really mean crazy. I was paranoid, had high anxiety, angry, and even suicidal. My wife tried telling me I was going crazy...but the paranoia prevented me from believing her. The bottle says only 1% of people suffer from these side effects...why risk it?

What happened ?
You scared the bejesus out of me...
Did you run labs on this protocol?
And it all went away after switching to injects?

 

[Alpin]

38 Years Old

6'0
Pre TRT
257lbs
BF 28.9% (dexa-scan 2 weeks into trt)
TT: 308


I've been on 100 MG Test C once a week for exactly 3 months now. No AI or HCG, I had a short stint with 3J, but didn't stick to the diet the whole time. I've had awesome energy and have been hitting the gym hard ever since starting trt.

250lbs
26% BF (dexa-scan after 1.5 months on trt)

TT: 900
E2: 50 (non-sensative)

My bodyfat is still dropping and I will be getting another dexa scan in mid December to see where I stand. In the time between the 2 dexa scans which was only 4 weeks apart I lost 3%bf, lost 6 lbs of fat and gained 8 lbs of lean mass.

Eventually I will try switching to 2xper week injections, but since I'm feeling good I figured why change it up?

How you feeling with the 50 pg/ml estradiol ?
What range is the sensitivity assay again ? 3-70 pg/ml?
You holding water?
How many days from shot is the e2 and TT?

 

[Captain America]

How you feeling with the 50 pg/ml estradiol ?
What range is the sensitivity assay again ? 3-70 pg/ml?
You holding water?
How many days from shot is the e2 and TT?

Actually now that you asked the question I looked back at the labs and the exact numbers are as follows.

(48hrs after injection)
Estradiol= 53.6 on a scale of 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
TT=943

I would say I am holding a bit of water, but I guess it feels normal to me because I have been like this for so long. Those labs were from labcorp. When I went in for my 1 month bloodwork with my Dr they checked trough and I was at 243TT, but I couldn't get her to check my Estradiol. Since my TT was so low she was thinking of raising my test dose, so then she ordered labs 72hrs after injection to check TT and it was @ 800, so she said to leave everything the same. I don't feel any drastic difference in the way I feel from peak to trough, so I'm guessing my free T is high?

I have been meaning to get sensative E checked, but haven't made it a priority. I feel pretty damn good and my chronic tendonitis is all but gone now. Maybe I'll get my Sensative E checked wednesday just to see where I'm at. I'm afraid to change anything right now because I feel really good.

 

[Alpin]

Actually now that you asked the question I looked back at the labs and the exact numbers are as follows.

(48hrs after injection)
Estradiol= 53.6 on a scale of 7.6-42.6 pg/ml
TT=943

I would say I am holding a bit of water, but I guess it feels normal to me because I have been like this for so long. Those labs were from labcorp. When I went in for my 1 month bloodwork with my Dr they checked trough and I was at 243TT, but I couldn't get her to check my Estradiol. Since my TT was so low she was thinking of raising my test dose, so then she ordered labs 72hrs after injection to check TT and it was @ 800, so she said to leave everything the same. I don't feel any drastic difference in the way I feel from peak to trough, so I'm guessing my free T is high?

I have been meaning to get sensative E checked, but haven't made it a priority. I feel pretty damn good and my chronic tendonitis is all but gone now. Maybe I'll get my Sensative E checked wednesday just to see where I'm at. I'm afraid to change anything right now because I feel really good.

Relax...lol
its only a 100 mg/week.
I would like to know trough Estradiol though...
its not bad where you are unless you are having anxiety, insomnia. .
if you took the 50 mg twice a week you wouldn't be over range at all very likely. ...
but pinning twice a week for 50 mg a dose seems like peanuts to me. Play with some 25 mg zinc picolinate ED and see if it helps...
you could go more but the damn stuff raises HCT faster too.

 

[Alpin]

I been playing around with 22 mg zinc picolinate ED myself and E2 peak was 27 pg/ml (regular assay)with 790 TT a couple weeks ago.

 

[Captain America]

Relax...lol
its only a 100 mg/week.
I would like to know trough Estradiol though...
its not bad where you are unless you are having anxiety, insomnia. .
if you took the 50 mg twice a week you wouldn't be over range at all very likely. ...
but pinning twice a week for 50 mg a dose seems like peanuts to me. Play with some 25 mg zinc picolinate ED and see if it helps...
you could go more but the damn stuff raises HCT faster too.

I'm pretty relaxed haha. That was exactly my thinking of the 2 injections per week. It seems like it wouldn't be worth it. I think I'm gonna order up a lab and go in on Wednesday. I've been wanting to know what it is before I start HCG anyway. Haven't decided when I'm gonna give that a try. I have to see my Dr for my 6 month labs in February, so I have to plan accordingly as she won't prescribe hcg unless I say I want kids.

 

[Alpin]

I'm pretty relaxed haha. That was exactly my thinking of the 2 injections per week. It seems like it wouldn't be worth it. I think I'm gonna order up a lab and go in on Wednesday. I've been wanting to know what it is before I start HCG anyway. Haven't decided when I'm gonna give that a try. I have to see my Dr for my 6 month labs in February, so I have to plan accordingly as she won't prescribe hcg unless I say I want kids.

She's ridiculous. Hows the HCG going to help AFTER you have been shut down for quite some period of time (I imagine) to then bring back sperm count?
HCG needs to be at a specific dose when on TRT to maintain optimal sperm count. 250 i.u. twice weekly may likely not cut it.

 

[bigben66]

Some doctors use a 12 week schedule. Others do a first 2 every 6 weeks and then one injection every 12 weeks (as advised by the manufacturer). Some go as far as injecting once every 16 weeks.

Good to know you have good experience with it and your doctor is ready to look at your personal situation, rather than wait 8 to 12 weeks.

Once every 4 weeks seems high. Do you get anything else with it?

I just found you log! Great read! And it seems that you did have the problems I wrote about in my reply when you first started Nebido.

Glad you found my log useful, I've had loads of PM's from UK and Aussie guys who have been put on Nebido saying they found the information I posted very useful for their journey, I'm pleased I did it now!

Yes, an injection of 1000mg/4ml every 4 weeks sounds a lot, but it gets me where I need to be.... so the doc is happy.
Austinite (one of the moderators) has a friend using Nebido, who only has to inject twice a year, and this keeps him in range, so it's clearly down to the individual and how they tolerate it.

Unfortunately in the UK, doctors will NOT consider any of the ancillaries that go with Test... so I've had to go to an UGL for my Adex and HCG, but rather than whinge and moan, I'm thankful for what I have....

On my last bloods (before I started Adex), my E2 was elevated but still within range (just!) - so I decided to take matters in my own hands and manage the E2 myself. I have found 0.5mg of Adex every 5 days keeps me in check.

With regard to the HCG, the decision to start this was purely for vanity. My nuts shrunk to the size of peas after a while, and although they worked fine I was subconscious of how they looked and felt. Sex and male performance is predominantly psychological, and having tiny nuts was doing nothing for my confidence. So I've come up with a protocol that seem to work.
I inject 500iu 2 x weekly for ten weeks and then have 4 weeks off.

One thing I learnt early with TRT (even more so living in the UK where this is still very much a taboo topic) is that you have to learn as much as you possibly can and manage it yourself. Obviously you are going to need to work with a good doctor, but if you need to tweak something and the doc isn't willing to help you, then find another way!

 

[sanipialo]

It was very helpful for me as well. I have terrible low testosterone symptoms and my blood test showed 10,4 nmol/l = 299 ng/dl. The doctor would not do anything because it is within the range of 10 to 35. I have found another doctor and a new blood test and if my testosterone has gone down, plus if LH and LSH are not good. He might consider putting me on gel, which I will not accept.

You are so lucky to find a doctor that looks at your individual problems and needs and does not look at you as another statistic.

Hope you keep on updating your log

 

[Jimstigator]

She's ridiculous. Hows the HCG going to help AFTER you have been shut down for quite some period of time (I imagine) to then bring back sperm count?
HCG needs to be at a specific dose when on TRT to maintain optimal sperm count. 250 i.u. twice weekly may likely not cut it.

The testes don't die, they hibernate. You can bring sperm count from zero back up to normal with HCG and patience.

My protocol is currently 140mg test cyp E3D. No HCG or AI. Trying to hit higher estrogen numbers so recently increased dose. Last blood reading was 48 hours after injection... TT 729, Sensitive E 20 on 125mg test cyp E3D.

-Jim

 

[bigben66]

It was very helpful for me as well. I have terrible low testosterone symptoms and my blood test showed 10,4 nmol/l = 299 ng/dl. The doctor would not do anything because it is within the range of 10 to 35. I have found another doctor and a new blood test and if my testosterone has gone down, plus if LH and LSH are not good. He might consider putting me on gel, which I will not accept.

You are so lucky to find a doctor that looks at your individual problems and needs and does not look at you as another statistic.

Hope you keep on updating your log

You're in the UK right?

I AM lucky to have found him... but I also think that by researching everything beforehand, you are able to talk to him on a level, offer suggestions, and know what you are looking for. Obviously they have to follow protocol, but they can be persuaded if you try and guide them tactfully

As for the gels, I tried them, to keep him happy, but when I rang him on week 3 saying I was worried that I may be passing on the T to my 5yr old daughter and I wanted to move to injections, he had no choice but to listen.

You'll be doing well to find many success stories using gels alone.

I doubt I'll be updating my log now that my protocol is settled... But if I am ever moved to a different medicine, or something changes, then yes I will update.

PS: You are in the right place here my man - some of the vets in here have been amazing with their advice and knowledge. I know they do things differently in the US, but the goals are still the same.

I can't thank the vets on 'Ology enough!

 

[sanipialo]

You're in the UK right?

I AM lucky to have found him... but I also think that by researching everything beforehand, you are able to talk to him on a level, offer suggestions, and know what you are looking for. Obviously they have to follow protocol, but they can be persuaded if you try and guide them tactfully

As for the gels, I tried them, to keep him happy, but when I rang him on week 3 saying I was worried that I may be passing on the T to my 5yr old daughter and I wanted to move to injections, he had no choice but to listen.

You'll be doing well to find many success stories using gels alone.

I doubt I'll be updating my log now that my protocol is settled... But if I am ever moved to a different medicine, or something changes, then yes I will update.

PS: You are in the right place here my man - some of the vets in here have been amazing with their advice and knowledge. I know they do things differently in the US, but the goals are still the same.

I can't thank the vets on 'Ology enough!

I am in The Netherlands where TRT for young adults is very rare, unless you have Klinefelter syndrome or have test levels under the 7.6 for more than 6 months.

My doctors so far have been very arrogant. When you show them research papers and other scientific evidence, their attitude is "Are you a the specialist? No, then let me do my job". According to the nurse it is typical for internists such as urologist, oncologist and endocrinologist. But doctors are also under a lot of pressure to reduce costs, that is the main reason they won't look for and treat certain things. Which is sad, also for the doctors themselves.

If all fails I will go to Belgium. Where they still have a system similar to what we had a decade ago and what the UK has. Healthcare is not a for profit business and the goals of the doctor is not to reduce costs but it is to help patients.

This forum has been very helpful. At least in providing the right direction so you can use sites like Google Scholar and NCBI to find scientific papers regarding the subjects.

 

[babyface58]

Just got my bloodwork back after my first month of injections (switched from gel).

My protocol:

Every 4 days I'm taking:

- 60mg test cyp
- 250 iu HCG
- 0.25mg anastrozole

Bloodwork:

(These are trough numbers, taken the day of injections, before I take the meds.)

- Total Testosterone: 775 (348-1197 ng/dL)
- E2 sensitive: 19 (3-70 pg/mL)

 

[Chiefy]

Just got my bloodwork back after my first month of injections (switched from gel).

My protocol:

Every 4 days I'm taking:

- 60mg test cyp
- 250 iu HCG
- 0.25mg anastrozole

Bloodwork:

(These are trough numbers, taken the day of injections, before I take the meds.)

- Total Testosterone: 775 (348-1197 ng/dL)
- E2 sensitive: 19 (3-70 pg/mL)

Not bad. How are you feeling? E2 is a little on the low side, but some guys feel great with an E2 ~20. If you feel that there is room for improvement, it might be a good idea to back off the Anastrozole a little bit.