Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
I read that deca gives you a positive nitrogen balance which helps store and use more protein in your body. Does test do this too?
Positive nitrogen balance........
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Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
Does anyone know?
Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
hhajdo said:
Does deca increase protein synthesis more than test? Or is it about the same? What do you think?
Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
Thanks alot hhajdo! So your 100% sure test gives you a positive nitrogen balance then?
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hhajdo
Community Veteran
Yes, I'm sure..
Here's an example (and there are many more...)
Am J Physiol 1998 Nov;275(5 Pt 1):E864-71 Related Articles, Links
Testosterone injection stimulates net protein synthesis but not tissue amino acid transport.
Ferrando AA, Tipton KD, Doyle D, Phillips SM, Cortiella J, Wolfe RR.
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA.
Testosterone administration (T) increases lean body mass and muscle protein synthesis. We investigated the effects of short-term T on leg muscle protein kinetics and transport of selected amino acids by use of a model based on arteriovenous sampling and muscle biopsy. Fractional synthesis (FSR) and breakdown (FBR) rates of skeletal muscle protein were also directly calculated. Seven healthy men were studied before and 5 days after intramuscular injection of 200 mg of testosterone enanthate. Protein synthesis increased twofold after injection (P < 0.05), whereas protein breakdown was unchanged. FSR and FBR calculations were in accordance, because FSR increased twofold (P < 0.05) without a concomitant change in FBR. Net balance between synthesis and breakdown became more positive with both methodologies (P < 0.05) and was not different from zero. T injection increased arteriovenous essential and nonessential nitrogen balance across the leg (P < 0.05) in the fasted state, without increasing amino acid transport. Thus T administration leads to an increased net protein synthesis and reutilization of intracellular amino acids in skeletal muscle.
Here's an example (and there are many more...)
Am J Physiol 1998 Nov;275(5 Pt 1):E864-71 Related Articles, Links
Testosterone injection stimulates net protein synthesis but not tissue amino acid transport.
Ferrando AA, Tipton KD, Doyle D, Phillips SM, Cortiella J, Wolfe RR.
Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA.
Testosterone administration (T) increases lean body mass and muscle protein synthesis. We investigated the effects of short-term T on leg muscle protein kinetics and transport of selected amino acids by use of a model based on arteriovenous sampling and muscle biopsy. Fractional synthesis (FSR) and breakdown (FBR) rates of skeletal muscle protein were also directly calculated. Seven healthy men were studied before and 5 days after intramuscular injection of 200 mg of testosterone enanthate. Protein synthesis increased twofold after injection (P < 0.05), whereas protein breakdown was unchanged. FSR and FBR calculations were in accordance, because FSR increased twofold (P < 0.05) without a concomitant change in FBR. Net balance between synthesis and breakdown became more positive with both methodologies (P < 0.05) and was not different from zero. T injection increased arteriovenous essential and nonessential nitrogen balance across the leg (P < 0.05) in the fasted state, without increasing amino acid transport. Thus T administration leads to an increased net protein synthesis and reutilization of intracellular amino acids in skeletal muscle.
Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
Well instead of doing test/deca cycles, Its probably better to just up the test doseage. What do you think?
Last edited:
hhajdo
Community Veteran
There was some speculation about possible synergy regarding their effect on IGF-1, since nandrolone lowers IGFBP-1 which may increase free IGF-1 (test increases IGF-1).
You would probably get similar results if you just increased the test dosage as you said.
Testosterone administration increases insulin-like growth factor-I levels in normal men
CJ Hobbs, SR Plymate, CJ Rosen and RA Adler
Department of Clinical Investigation, Madigan Army Medical Center, Tacoma, Washington 98493.
Although testosterone (T) administration can increase insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) when administered to hypogonadal men, no studies have examined whether this occurs in normal men. The present study was undertaken to determine if an increase in IGF-I may be part of the anabolic effect of androgens. We enrolled 11 normal men in a randomized, double-blinded cross-over study. Subjects were assigned to receive either T enanthate (TE) (300 mg im, each week) or nandrolone (ND) decanoate (300 mg im, each week) for 6 weeks. After a washout period subjects were administered the alternate treatment. Pre- and posttreatment serum was analyzed for IGF-I by RIA after acid-ethanol extraction. Results expressed as mean +/- SEM (Table 1). IGF-binding protein-3 was measured by RIA and was unchanged in the TE treatment and decreased significantly after ND treatment. Although GH levels were not significantly different after either TE or ND treatment, they tended to increase after TE treatment (1.23 +/- 0.28 ng/mL vs. 3.3 +/- 1.03 ng/mL) but remained unchanged after ND treatment (1.68 +/- 0.68 ng/mL vs. 1.89 +/- 0.64 ng/mL). Serum total T levels increased 32 +/- 0.05 nmol/L in the TE-treated men, but fell by 7 +/- 0.02 nmol/L in the ND- treated men (P < 0.0001). Serum estradiol levels rose by 193.04 +/- 19.82 pmol/L in the TE-treated men although falling by 50.65 +/- 34.50 pmol/L in the ND-treated men (P < 0.0002). These data indicate that when normal men are given TE, serum IGF-I levels increase after 6 weeks of treatment. Treatment with ND did not change serum levels of IGF-I but did decrease the level of the major serum IGF-BP and therefore the level of bioavailable IGF-I may be increased in the ND group.
You would probably get similar results if you just increased the test dosage as you said.
Testosterone administration increases insulin-like growth factor-I levels in normal men
CJ Hobbs, SR Plymate, CJ Rosen and RA Adler
Department of Clinical Investigation, Madigan Army Medical Center, Tacoma, Washington 98493.
Although testosterone (T) administration can increase insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) when administered to hypogonadal men, no studies have examined whether this occurs in normal men. The present study was undertaken to determine if an increase in IGF-I may be part of the anabolic effect of androgens. We enrolled 11 normal men in a randomized, double-blinded cross-over study. Subjects were assigned to receive either T enanthate (TE) (300 mg im, each week) or nandrolone (ND) decanoate (300 mg im, each week) for 6 weeks. After a washout period subjects were administered the alternate treatment. Pre- and posttreatment serum was analyzed for IGF-I by RIA after acid-ethanol extraction. Results expressed as mean +/- SEM (Table 1). IGF-binding protein-3 was measured by RIA and was unchanged in the TE treatment and decreased significantly after ND treatment. Although GH levels were not significantly different after either TE or ND treatment, they tended to increase after TE treatment (1.23 +/- 0.28 ng/mL vs. 3.3 +/- 1.03 ng/mL) but remained unchanged after ND treatment (1.68 +/- 0.68 ng/mL vs. 1.89 +/- 0.64 ng/mL). Serum total T levels increased 32 +/- 0.05 nmol/L in the TE-treated men, but fell by 7 +/- 0.02 nmol/L in the ND- treated men (P < 0.0001). Serum estradiol levels rose by 193.04 +/- 19.82 pmol/L in the TE-treated men although falling by 50.65 +/- 34.50 pmol/L in the ND-treated men (P < 0.0002). These data indicate that when normal men are given TE, serum IGF-I levels increase after 6 weeks of treatment. Treatment with ND did not change serum levels of IGF-I but did decrease the level of the major serum IGF-BP and therefore the level of bioavailable IGF-I may be increased in the ND group.
Golden_Muscle
Hybrid Athlete
Thanks alot for the help hhajdo. Your awsome.
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