proviron during PCT

[jcp2]

any experiences, thoughts, lets hear it.

 

[Vegas]

I have just been having a discussion about this with a few guys on another board. I was basically being called a retarded asshole for stating that while I have never used it during post cycle therapy (pct) personally I have never seen any scientific evidence that convinced me that it would be overly harmful to do so. After some name calling, etc I posted the following study to support my argument. I think it is a good starting point.
_________________________________________________
Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1988 Feb;26(1):121-8. Links

The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...t_uids=2892728&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_docsum

 

[LAWNSAVER]

any experiences, thoughts, lets hear it.

Here is a link to a oldie but goodie. I have used proviron with a few of my PCTs and have found it to be very useful. I actually used it when my wife and I got pregnent.

You should be careful and use it after your clomid or n-des therapy. Make sure the HPTA is going again. This is how I used it.

500ius of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) ED, the last 10 days of my cycle. Then take 40mg ED of N-dex for 7 days followed by 14 days at 20mg. I then start the proviron at 50mg for 4 weeks. This dis 2 things for me. It made sure the N-dex was able to do its job, and it then increased my sperm count, while at the same increasing my libido. After the 7 weeks I was tested to see if my test levels were good and my sperm count was good.

My test levels were in the mid 400s, which is good for a 10 year juicer, and my sperm count was very good.

http://www.steroidology.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10

 

[mustanged77]

great thread

I plan on using prorivon at the end of my cycle. My thoughts were to use it after my last injection of test cyp and EQ up until I use Nolva and Clomid. About two weeks. The reasoning is that Prorivon is a anrdogen that basically takes up receptor sites that estrogen could potentially bind to.
I never thought of taking it after clomid and nolva therapy.

I wonder if it would be good to bridge between cycles?

Lawnsaver, thanks for the first hand info.
Aboot, I read alot of your post. I always find it top notch, backed by experience and facts. That study was very informative. Even a lot of people with experience still know very little about the best use for prorivon, so for someone to argue or call names over the issue is silly.

 

[roccodart440]

Now that i've used proviron I have to say I like it. Definitly going to try it off cycloe or at the end of post cycle therapy (pct) sometime. TBH I think alot of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys that take test for libido and not for physical needs IE weight/muscle strength would be very happy with 50 mg or Proviron ED.

 

[Trevdog]

I can't back my opinion up with studies, but my feeling is that while proviron has been shown not to be suppressive in normal men, at the end of a steroid cycle our HPTA is already severely suppressed. I think that Proviron is quite likely to disrupt and/or prolong recovery when we are in this state. Therefore, I would be very cautious about using it during PCT, especially if the libido problem is not severe and may be remedied with viagra or cialis.

 

[GymLift]

Based on our understanding of Proviron and what it does, Proviron should reduce our bodies need to create as much testosterone as it would without Proviron.

But folks, the whole point to post cycle therapy (pct) is to recover your bodies full natural production of testosterone.

In other words, Proviron might give the person the feeling of feeling better through post cycle therapy (pct), but Proviron isn't actually helping the person to recover. When the person finally discontinues the Proviron, their body will have to start making more testosterone.

 

[DADAWG]

I can't back my opinion up with studies, but my feeling is that while proviron has been shown not to be suppressive in normal men, at the end of a steroid cycle our HPTA is already severely suppressed. I think that Proviron is quite likely to disrupt and/or prolong recovery when we are in this state. Therefore, I would be very cautious about using it during PCT, especially if the libido problem is not severe and may be remedied with viagra or cialis.

i agree 100% . a healthy fully functional hpta is far different than a shut down hpta . i dont know for a fact that it will delay recovery but i dont know i wouldnt try it .

 

[roccodart440]

How bout using it after post cycle therapy (pct)? like abridge but non suppressive?

Also there is abig difference between viagara and proviron and they work completely differently. cialis comes closer to provirons effects but again from a totally different angle.

 

[jediclampet]

Now that i've used proviron I have to say I like it. Definitly going to try it off cycloe or at the end of post cycle therapy (pct) sometime. TBH I think alot of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) guys that take test for libido and not for physical needs IE weight/muscle strength would be very happy with 50 mg or Proviron ED.

I wonder how long a person in this situation should use proviron? Six weeks at a time... 12 weeks... longer?

 

[LAWNSAVER]

As I said above, I have used proviron, but only after the N-dex or Clomid was finished. I wanted to make sure the HPTA was stimulated for the entire time without any outside test sources.

 

[Trevdog]

How bout using it after post cycle therapy (pct)? like abridge but non suppressive?
QUOTE]

You could use it between cycles but when you say "bridge", that implies to me that you're trying to get some anabolism out of it. Proviron isn't anabolic, so unless the goal is just to bring up libido between cycles, I don't see the point in bridging with it.

 

[simpllyhuge]

their was a time when i ran out of prop and i was taking 100mg of provorin a day, but for some reason i wasnt horny at all.?

 

[Vegas]

What else were you taking with the cycle other then the prop, then proviron?

 

[roccodart440]

I guess it wouldn't be a bridge thinking of it that way. I guess I meant something to run to give you that feel good feeling between cycles and eliminate any lows even if they are natural and not Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) inducxed that may occur.

 

[Trevdog]

I guess it wouldn't be a bridge thinking of it that way. I guess I meant something to run to give you that feel good feeling between cycles and eliminate any lows even if they are natural and not Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS) inducxed that may occur.

Yes, that would probably be a good use for proviron. I would hate life if my libido went away.

 

[roccodart440]

Yes, that would probably be a good use for proviron. I would hate life if my libido went away.

Mine did for a bit and it wasn't cool. I will without a doubt include clomid in my next post cycle therapy (pct) right from the get go. nolva by itself just didn't do it.

 

[jcp2]

Mine did for a bit and it wasn't cool. I will without a doubt include clomid in my next post cycle therapy (pct) right from the get go. nolva by itself just didn't do it.

I remember when nolva as post cycle therapy (pct) started to become popular, it never seemed to have the success rate of clomid, but it does seem to not have the sides in some clomid does. I always use clomid for post cycle therapy (pct). it is always the base, everything else is just and addition.

 

[DocJ]

I've posted on dozens of threads about this and I would agree with mranark's post....however, IF proviron were to be used as a part of a post cycle therapy (pct) regimen, IMO the ONLY way it could have the possibility to work without negatively impacting the hpta would be the way Lawnsaver used it.

 

[roccodart440]

I remember when nolva as post cycle therapy (pct) started to become popular, it never seemed to have the success rate of clomid, but it does seem to not have the sides in some clomid does. I always use clomid for post cycle therapy (pct). it is always the base, everything else is just and addition.

I never got sides from clomid at 100mg or less per day? THe thing I tell people to remember is the medical use of clomid and nolvadex for males