Question about 17-aa steroids

robbocopp said:
Questions have to do with
a.) hepatotoxicity of 17 alpha-substitution
b.) hepatotoxicity of oral steroids both as related to 17aa and steroid
c.) absorption and distribution of 17aa steroids via oral vs. injection methods.
d.) detoxification vs. bioactivation during metabolic process in the liver. (other drugs having hepatotoxicity effects)

Will try to keep it simple.

BOTH the 17 alpha substitution AND the steroid itself are (in different ways) damaging to the liver. However, SOME of the steroids have different levels of absorption and excretion and metabolic transformation in the liver. In other words, SOME oral steroid get pissed out more (not absorbed or transformed). All 17aa ARE hepatotoxic - some more than others (oxandrolone seems to be the least OUT OF the anabolic ones).

Oral administration means that the 17aa steroid must go through the intestinal tract - go through the cell membranes and get transported to the liver via the hepatic artery before undergoing metabolic (biotransformation) changes AND then going into the blood system to the heart, tissues, lungs etc...

17aa administration via injection skips the intestinal tract absorption method -however, it must still be biotransformed (in toxicology it is called DETOXIFICATION) in the liver. So, it is still toxic. Might have improved absorption - so, as someone else said above it "could" be even more toxic only because MORE of the substance makes it to the liver.

Someone else brought up "tylenol" and "other" substances that are liver toxic. There are over 900 medications known to be liver toxic.

When the liver receives said substances it can detoxify them or bioactivate them. Detoxification means metabolites of lower toxicity - bioactivation means metabolites that are more toxic than the parent substance.

Tylenol is a known substance that metabolizes into a MORE TOXIC substance (NAPQi metabolized by P-450 enzymes) above a certain limit intaken. Tylenol causes adverse drug reactions classified as type A (intrinsic or pharmacological) - meaning "we" know when and why and in what quantity they occur.


BOTTOM LINE:
17aa steroids ARE toxic whether taken orally or IM.
17aa steroids in low quantities taken for SHORT periods of time haven't been proven to cause HCC (cancer) but do cause reversible (most of the time) damage.
SOME 17aa steroids are less toxic - like oxandrolone appearing to be the least so.
(for the original "post" - Tbol is toxic to the liver and WILL elevate your liver enzymes - tried it myself this summer - stopped after 4 weeks due to elevated enzymes - oxandrolone at 20mgs/day did NOT elevate enzymes - but this was JUST my experience).

Personally I wouldn't run them unless I knew my liver state prior to - and couldn't monitor during cycle at least weekly. Run vit b-complex (B6, b3, b12) run arginine - run milk thistle ... all prior to, during and after orals.

IF YOU HAVE THE FOLLOWING:
Serum bilirubin level - more that 2 times ULN with associated transaminase rise - this is an ominous sign.

If you want to know WHEN you've caused your liver injury - either (a) ALT level more than three times of upper limit of normal (ULN), (b) ALP level more than twice ULN. This indicates severe hepatotoxicity and is likely to lead to mortality in 10% to 15% of patients, especially if the offending steroid isn't stopped (Hy's Law)

The only diagnostic test to detect HCC is a blood test known as alpha-fetoprotein (AFP). This test is one of the tumor markers (a blood test indicative of, but not diagnostic of, cancer). Normal adult level is less than 20 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml). If the level in a person’s blood is over 400 ng/ml, then it is pretty safe to say that liver cancer is present. Levels under 400 ng/ml are unclear but I wouldn't want to see them on my result sheet.

MAKE IT A STICKY AND GOOD LUCK .. and if SCARZ's questions are answered I can sleep well - if it's not enough info for Scarz -- tell me and I swear I'll dust of my toxicology manuals in the attic somewhere.
Click to expand...

...u better start dusting :druggie:
 
I had a friend who was on prescription strength tylenol, but anyways, he was a heavy underage drinker in college and it messed up his liver real bad since he lied to the doc about drinking. kid's lucky he didn't need a transplant
 
so the general consesnsus is that oral drugs are taken orally, depending on how toxic it is, can affect the liver.

disregarding its effectiveness which is nil, if injectables are swallowed why don't they affect the liver?
 
Scarz said:
so the general consesnsus is that oral drugs are taken orally, depending on how toxic it is, can affect the liver.

disregarding its effectiveness which is nil, if injectables are swallowed why don't they affect the liver?
Click to expand...


Injectables, for the most part, even testosterone, whether orally administered or not - are "toxic" to the liver. Oral administration is useless because only 3-4% will make it into the system.

However, "toxic" doesn't mean that it will hurt the liver itself, like 17aa steroids.

You all know that taking INJECTABLE testosterone WILL completely fuck your lipid profile (HDL:LDL ratio). You'll have higher cholesterol and low HDL.

That is BECAUSE your liver enzymes responsible for lipid maintenance will be "screwed". (that's why a good diet, with loads of Omega 3 are necessary for lipid maintenance while on cycle and PCT).

So, it is toxic (in a strict sense) to the liver - but, the consequence is to the lipid profile (and other) - which in turn is dangerous for your heart.

however, it is generally accepted that a "bad" lipid profile is easier to manage with correct diet and supplements and is LESS dangerous than liver damage caused by 17aa steroids. Plus, you have a good chance of recovering from it - whereas liver damage once done you are down a bad path...

So, the answer is - the 17aa steroid damages the liver directly, whereas other steroids are simply "toxic" but the damage is to secondary organs etc...
 
Introduction

Hello, as you may already noticed I am new here.
Hope to receive some help from you if I will have some quesitons.
Thanks and good luck everyone! ;)
 
SueKellerqqz said:
Hi
I am Sue. Just got registered. Hoping to learn a lot from you guys and possibly make a few additions where I can. I promise to use the search facility so that I do not ask useless questions that have been answered in the past.
Click to expand...

hi sue welcome.
First order of biz is to introduce your self,start you own thread and ask some questions...go to the womans forum,start there but im assuming that your a woman and I apoligize if im wrong.
 
drewbolic said:
hi sue welcome.
First order of biz is to introduce your self,start you own thread and ask some questions...go to the womans forum,start there but im assuming that your a woman and I apoligize if im wrong.
Click to expand...

LOL you replied to an adbot... ;)
 
Carpenter_Guy said:
I had a friend who was on prescription strength tylenol, but anyways, he was a heavy underage drinker in college and it messed up his liver real bad since he lied to the doc about drinking. kid's lucky he didn't need a transplant
Click to expand...

liver transplant? lol did they have a medical breakthrough or something!
 
dropface said:
Oh.. I thought the 17aa structure made the oral drug survive the first pass in the liver and then again causes the liver heavy stress. Which in other words means possibility for liver damage?
Click to expand...

YES but each oral is absorbed diffrantly and broken down diff so the toxticity can vary even thow its 17aa liek the others.

its depends on how the body reads it and take it out.

var and halo are 17aa and TRUST ME mg for mg halo is HARDER on liver then var.
why?
i stated why but exacly why?
i dont know
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

anzel
Euro Pharmacies Anadrol. Makes great gains!
Replies
7
Views
1K
49ER
4
V
How to Read Your Liver Blood Test Results (Please read)
Replies
14
Views
1K
Milton
Milton
V
How to Read Your Liver Blood Test Results (Please read)
Replies
6
Views
1K
.Vision.
V
K
4th Cycle, How many is too many to stack together? Cross steroid interaction?
Replies
17
Views
1K
snowpatrol123
snowpatrol123
inhuman2008
the great oral debate
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
Sharmacus
Sharmacus
Back
Top