Question about Total Test level

[Entourage_Doc]

I would start at 150mg/wk weekly doses. Bi-weekly injections are best.

Make sure to follow bloods and go from there. It can be tricky sometimes with docs like yours, they will want to keep you around a therapeutic range but we find that getting your Total T to around 1000ng/dl seems to be the sweet spot.

Best of luck and hopefully this increases your quality of life!

Dr B

 

[Virginian]

... we find that getting your Total T to around 1000ng/dl seems to be the sweet spot.

I totally agree. 1000 ng/dl works great for me. No problems with hemocrit, lipids, prostate. No AI necessary. Great for muscle growth, fat loss, and lean appearance.

 

[scorob777]

I totally agree. 1000 ng/dl works great for me. No problems with hemocrit, lipids, prostate. No AI necessary. Great for muscle growth, fat loss, and lean appearance.

As a point of reference, based on where 200 puts me, I would need 155 mg/wk test cyp to hit 1,000 ng/dl. Your doc wants to give you 1/3 of that, and put you on a wicked roller coaster.

If I had a doc that wanted to put me at a therapeutic level of 333 ng/dl I'd fire him. I'd first try to educate him, but that would very likely strike out - especially if you mention you got your knowledge off the internet. Ha!

 

[Back into it]

As a point of reference, based on where 200 puts me, I would need 155 mg/wk test cyp to hit 1,000 ng/dl. Your doc wants to give you 1/3 of that, and put you on a wicked roller coaster.

If I had a doc that wanted to put me at a therapeutic level of 333 ng/dl I'd fire him. I'd first try to educate him, but that would very likely strike out - especially if you mention you got your knowledge off the internet. Ha!

I will see the doc on the 27th. I do plan on trying to educate him. However I do not plan on telling him that I am getting info here. Not 100% sure of his plan as all I have to go by is a script in my online med file for 100mg test c. All speculation but based on what I have learned here it is more than likely that dose every 2 weeks. I will be willing to play that game if thats where he wants to start. However, I will ask him the following questions presented like this:

1. I have been told by a friend that is currently on TRT that when he started he felt a crash after about 5 days. He explained to me that the half life of the test was 5 days and that he spoke with his doc and they split the dose to once a week. Eventually getting to once every 3.5 days to maintain a constant feeling of feeling better. I would like to be able to go with once a week to start.

2. I am not 100% sure that I want to do this the rest of my life, but I am willing to give it a reasonable amount of time to see how well it works. But if I stop then my test would be far worse than it is now. I have read (and been told) that I can still keep my Gonads alive by taking HCG along with the Test. So I would like to have a script for this as well.

3. How often will you be monitoring my response to this with blood work and will you be making adjustments if needed or are you going to just prescribe the 100mg and let it go until my next physical.

4. Will I need to worry about, and will you monitor for aromitization?


Based on his answers I will either get my first injection and start the TRT or I will say no thank you and then find a clinic nearby (One or 2 in Grand Rapids) and set up an appointment then explore that route.

I want to give this a fair chance and think this may work well for me, but I do not want to start this with the wrong Doc only to end up worse. So with that in mind........
WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS WOULD YOU ALL RECOMMEND ME ASKING???????

Thank you everyone and may you all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

 

[Slhardee]

I think you have it pretty well covered in your four bullet points. If he can answer all those questions appropriately, I would stick with him. If not, weigh out your options and what is best. Remember, you are the patient and it comes down to how you feel, not what someone else is telling you.

 

[scorob777]

Ask him what target level he has for total test, and for free test. Confirm the blood testing he plans will also check for free test, and confirm he will be testing for estrogen levels and discuss a target. Ask him how he will get you dialed in, i.e. how to do it and how long it takes.

And to clarify - test cyp has a half life in the 10 to 12 day range, not 5. To keep blood levels fairly even shooting at half of a half life is a good approach - so every 5 or 6 days is the maximum length between shots that is practical.

 

[Back into it]

Thanks for all the advice. Tomorrow is the day. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Back into it]

I saw GP today regarding the TRT he has planned for me. Here is what I learned about the plan/my questions:

I asked about the script and it is 100 mg bi weekly test c. He told me that's just where he generally starts and may go up or down as needed. (I think this was a good answer)

I asked about the shot once every two weeks. He told me he is aware of the possible roller coaster ride and would be willing to go to once a week. He also said since I will be doing the injection that I could go twice a week if I felt it necessary but most guys do not like getting stuck that often. (That is a good answer)

I asked about the possibility of aromatization and if he would be doing tests to check my E2. He told me that he generally does not test for estrogen but if any symptoms presented themselves he would monitor that. (Not exactly what I was hoping for).

I asked about hcg along with the test to prevent complete shutdown. That was something he was unaware of (hcg) and told me he would look into that. (I think I really want that but I didnt know how to push that issue other than telling him I didnt want complete shutdown if I decided it wasn't for me. So hopefully he will investigate this and then possibly work this in. I will revisit the topic at my next appt which will be the week after I have labs drawn again)

I asked him what the goal level was. He told me he wants to get me between 500-600. (I will let you all tell me if that's acceptable or not. I have read enough with guys getting up to or even over 1000 so I am unsure if this is a good goal or not).

To start he wants me to do by weekly for first month and then one week after the second injection to return to get labs taken first thing in morning. (Lets say the second injection is on a Friday, he wants my labs taken the next Friday morning).


So,,,,, that's his plan for my TRT. Thoughts.............???????

 

[Megatron28]

I saw GP today regarding the TRT he has planned for me. Here is what I learned about the plan/my questions:

I asked about the script and it is 100 mg bi weekly test c. He told me that's just where he generally starts and may go up or down as needed. (I think this was a good answer)

I asked about the shot once every two weeks. He told me he is aware of the possible roller coaster ride and would be willing to go to once a week. He also said since I will be doing the injection that I could go twice a week if I felt it necessary but most guys do not like getting stuck that often. (That is a good answer)

I asked about the possibility of aromatization and if he would be doing tests to check my E2. He told me that he generally does not test for estrogen but if any symptoms presented themselves he would monitor that. (Not exactly what I was hoping for).

I asked about hcg along with the test to prevent complete shutdown. That was something he was unaware of (hcg) and told me he would look into that. (I think I really want that but I didnt know how to push that issue other than telling him I didnt want complete shutdown if I decided it wasn't for me. So hopefully he will investigate this and then possibly work this in. I will revisit the topic at my next appt which will be the week after I have labs drawn again)

I asked him what the goal level was. He told me he wants to get me between 500-600. (I will let you all tell me if that's acceptable or not. I have read enough with guys getting up to or even over 1000 so I am unsure if this is a good goal or not).

To start he wants me to do by weekly for first month and then one week after the second injection to return to get labs taken first thing in morning. (Lets say the second injection is on a Friday, he wants my labs taken the next Friday morning).


So,,,,, that's his plan for my TRT. Thoughts.............???????

Wait... Did he prescribe bi-weekly or bi-monthly (once every two weeks)? That's a huge difference.

 

[Back into it]

Wait... Did he prescribe bi-weekly or bi-monthly (once every two weeks)? That's a huge difference.

Once every 2 weeks (100mg)

 

[Slhardee]

Once a week is the minimum. As previously discussed once every 3.5 days is best. That is a very very low-dose. I do not think you will get up to 500 on that dose. However, the docs gonna start you low and build up from there. Remember, it will not come down to the number, but will come down to how you feel. Personally I would feel like crap at 500.

Your other point about HCG. You WILL be totally shut down when you start taking synthetic testosterone. The hCG will only backfill the process and potentially keep you fertile. However, your HPTA will be affected and you will not be producing your own testosterone.

Do not panic though, if you need to do a restart everything should come back together. It is totally normal to be shut down on TRT.

 

[Back into it]

Once a week is the minimum. As previously discussed once every 3.5 days is best. That is a very very low-dose. I do not think you will get up to 500 on that dose. However, the docs gonna start you low and build up from there. Remember, it will not come down to the number, but will come down to how you feel. Personally I would feel like crap at 500.

Your other point about HCG. You WILL be totally shut down when you start taking synthetic testosterone. The hCG will only backfill the process and potentially keep you fertile. However, your HPTA will be affected and you will not be producing your own testosterone.

Do not panic though, if you need to do a restart everything should come back together. It is totally normal to be shut down on TRT.

As far as fertility, that is not something I am worried about. I was under the impression that by doing the HCG I would keep my body producing some testosterone. Allowing me to walk away from the TRT IF it was not working for me. In other words if I did stop my body would start producing (albeit low) testosterone again.

Maybe I am misunderstanding but what I am getting from your post is that even though I may get totally shutdown (with or without hcg) My own testosterone production can be restarted?????? If so then I would not need to worry about having HCG as I will not be worried about having more children.

 

[Back into it]

I will be starting this today. Supposed to pick script up at 1 and then I am planning on heading back to the clinic to have them give me first injection. The doc said he has no issue with me doing it, but would prefer if I get the first one or two there so I know what I am doing.

My feeling is this......although I am a little frightened (all honesty) about getting potentially messed up by this doc, if it doesn't work the way I hope I would imagine I can (I hope) walk into a TRT specialist and explain situation and have them take over. My two main concerns are:

1. GP gets me to about 400-500 and he is happy with that and decides that's where I should be.....or I get into the 500-600 range like he told me and I feel like crap but because I am in his range he decides that's where I should be.

or

2. For whatever reason, if I decide I do not want to remain on the TRT. Which does not even seem like an option but for whatever reason if I would have to stop my test would be at at probably remain at about zero.

Those are my fears....I will get over pinning which I will not be a fan of but....DAMN THE TORPEDOS FULL SPEED AHEAD

 

[Mycelium]

I was under the impression that by doing the HCG I would keep my body producing some testosterone. Allowing me to walk away from the TRT IF it was not working for me.

HCG keeps your testicles from shrinking but it does not effect your hypothalamus and pituitary. If you decided to stop TRT you would need to "PCT" with nolva/Clomid. HCG is strictly for the testicles. It does cause testosterone production because it acts like LH in the testicles.

 

[Virginian]

Wait... Did he prescribe bi-weekly or bi-monthly (once every two weeks)? That's a huge difference.

I just looked up the definition of biweekly. The term is ambiguous. It can mean either twice a week or once every two weeks.

 

[Back into it]

HCG keeps your testicles from shrinking but it does not effect your hypothalamus and pituitary. If you decided to stop TRT you would need to "PCT" with nolva/Clomid. HCG is strictly for the testicles. It does cause testosterone production because it acts like LH in the testicles.

Thanks for clearing that up. Somehow I thought it was for faking out the pituitary to send LH signal to testicles. Then that is a good thing. So if I stop then Nolva/clomid could return some level of production. Awesome.

 

[casanovaaa]

I just looked up the definition of biweekly. The term is ambiguous. It can mean either twice a week or once every two weeks.

i just looked up the term ambiguous and it says that it is open to more than one interpretation; having a double meaning.

 

[Old Duffer]

I looked up the term interpretation but because of spell correct it says the act of inserting a penis in a vagina.

.... so you got that going for ya

 

[Slhardee]

I believe once you start TRT and get yourself dialed in, you will be glad that you gave it a try. As far as hCG goes, some guys take it and some guys go without it. From personal experience I started without it and started taking it after about a year on TRT. I feel much better at 500 IU of hCG two times a week.

 

[LateStart]

If were going into trt and trying to leave my options open for quitting trt, then i would definitely include the hcg. I believe, as you do, that it helps keep you producing SOME test. Problem is......you come off test and hcg , then you shut down. It is at this point I would PCT to return my body to telling my testicles to make test. Your body will have to return to d.ing what the hcg is doing for it. My exit strategy would definitely be to take hcg and test for my trt........and line up a good pct if I wanted to stop.