Real definitive gains after every cycle

D

Denn

New member
Hallo everyone,
I have a question for the veterans in the use of aas.
How much muscle can we keep permanently after every cycle in your opinion? I know that depends on food, lifestyle, workout, and many others factors, but on your experience what about?
Many say that 2-3 kg are the maximum that we can keep permanently, with everything ok months after cycle (food, workout, ecc). Is this a real theory? so that, if my goal is 10 kg of pure muscle mass, I will reach the goal in 4/5 years? (one or maximum two cycle a year)
Thanks for your reply
 
I'll try to chime in but the general consensus is it depends on a lot of factors, such as starting fitness level, diet, training, and pct.

From what I have heard, if you are not at your natural level you can keep a lot. But your body will dump water weight, which some can interpret as losing muscle. If you do it right, you will look bigger after the cycle; though not as yoked as when you were on.

Do note that I haven't cycled yet; and more experienced members may have a different experience.
 
ok, but when you have reached your natural level, every each subsequent cycle will not be permanent gains ? or a minimum is always keeped?
 
Keeping gains after cycle was answered by yourself I think. It depends on diet and training and PCT. The problem with trying to say how much is dependent on the % of weight gain in LMM.

If a man uses steroids and gains weight then only some of the weight is LMM and the rest is fluids and fat tissue. By continuing to train as when on cycle and to continue the proper diet a guy should be able to keep ALL of the LMM. Unless we go into atrophy and a catabolic state we should hold on to the LMM. Paying attention to what I am saying you should understand I talk about PURE LEAN MUSCLE MASS

Another issue that comes into the equation is how much LMM can a man gain in one year. There are charts to see because the length of time a man has been training in his life and his age make that a big variable. The young man that just starts and does it all properly will gain more LM M in a year that a man in his 30's that has been training for years. Kinda diminishing returns.

So a basic rule is that a man can only grow 15-20lbs of LEAN MUSCLE MASS in one year. That being said is why we see guys gaining 20 plus pounds on a cycle and loosing 10 and 15 lbs. When stripped lean the gained only 5 lbs ergo 2 cycles a year and or 2 long cycle you end up with 10 lbs in a year max.

Now if you look at the pro's and what they weigh you can see the diminishing returns in reality, otherwise these guys would weigh 500 lbs .

There are some other people who may think different but this is what I have learned by experience and the book n charts
 
oldmusclemike said:
Keeping gains after cycle was answered by yourself I think. It depends on diet and training and PCT. The problem with trying to say how much is dependent on the % of weight gain in LMM.

If a man uses steroids and gains weight then only some of the weight is LMM and the rest is fluids and fat tissue. By continuing to train as when on cycle and to continue the proper diet a guy should be able to keep ALL of the LMM. Unless we go into atrophy and a catabolic state we should hold on to the LMM. Paying attention to what I am saying you should understand I talk about PURE LEAN MUSCLE MASS

Another issue that comes into the equation is how much LMM can a man gain in one year. There are charts to see because the length of time a man has been training in his life and his age make that a big variable. The young man that just starts and does it all properly will gain more LM M in a year that a man in his 30's that has been training for years. Kinda diminishing returns.

So a basic rule is that a man can only grow 15-20lbs of LEAN MUSCLE MASS in one year. That being said is why we see guys gaining 20 plus pounds on a cycle and loosing 10 and 15 lbs. When stripped lean the gained only 5 lbs ergo 2 cycles a year and or 2 long cycle you end up with 10 lbs in a year max.

Now if you look at the pro's and what they weigh you can see the diminishing returns in reality, otherwise these guys would weigh 500 lbs .

There are some other people who may think different but this is what I have learned by experience and the book n charts
Click to expand...


I agree with you on everything,
anyway we have to consider that also that even part of pure lean mass disappears when off cycle because of a lowering to the physiological hormone levels .. really?
 
cdiggity said:
I'll try to chime in but the general consensus is it depends on a lot of factors, such as starting fitness level, diet, training, and pct.

From what I have heard, if you are not at your natural level you can keep a lot. But your body will dump water weight, which some can interpret as losing muscle. If you do it right, you will look bigger after the cycle; though not as yoked as when you were on.

Do note that I haven't cycled yet; and more experienced members may have a different experience.
Click to expand...


So why would you comment when you have no experence.

Here is the truth. It all depends on the person the shape they are in and the diet the ability to put on muscle and the ability to recover quickly.

I can put on 40 lbs dry in 12 weeks. I also recover very fast because I use IGF-1LR3 on cycle and don't atrophy so no recovery time. Loss is minimul. I use every possible trick digestive aids and peptides and insulin and a whole sluw of advanced compounds. This is only possible when my diet is fine tuned and my training is at it peak. Most people never reach peak performance with there diet in check.

I've been at this for more than 15 years.

Most are would be lucky to gain 30 pound because they don't know how to eat to grow and then they botch PCT and don't eat enough protein and loose.
 
It totally depends on what cycle you ran....

I've just competed in a show a week or so ago, and ran a cutting cycle on a caloric deficit for 16 weeks to get stage ready....

The meta-bolic rebound since switching to a minor surplus has been unreal, I'm making gains daily as my glycogen stores replenish, and I'm on much less gear now than I was when cutting.

Obviously if you've been on a bulking cycle, you need to nail down your intake and run a textbook PCT and aim to keep as much as you can - but to label everything as just 'a cycle' - is a bit vague to say the least!

A lot of it is psychological too.... we all train like beasts when on cycle - but when you come off, you automatically drop the intensity. If anything you need to work harder!
 
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Dreaded Pirate Roberts said:
So why would you comment when you have no experence.

Here is the truth. It all depends on the person the shape they are in and the diet the ability to put on muscle and the ability to recover quickly.

I can put on 40 lbs dry in 12 weeks. I also recover very fast because I use IGF-1LR3 on cycle and don't atrophy so no recovery time. Loss is minimul. I use every possible trick digestive aids and peptides and insulin and a whole sluw of advanced compounds. This is only possible when my diet is fine tuned and my training is at it peak. Most people never reach peak performance with there diet in check.

I've been at this for more than 15 years.

Most are would be lucky to gain 30 pound because they don't know how to eat to grow and then they botch PCT and don't eat enough protein and loose.
Click to expand...

if you've been at it for 15 years, and still have 40 pounds to gain...I'd suggest your diet, training and AAS/peptides/slin are bunk.

Or it could be that you don't really know what you're talking about, as we proved against your "letro cures gyno" posts.
 
Mrrippedzilla said:
You think it's possible to put on, or regain, 40 pounds of DRY weight (not fat or water) in 12 weeks?
Because I know for a fact that this is grade A bullshit.

Mprtz, your smart member so I highly recommend looking into DPRs post history to see why their is a need to antagonize :)
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're right. But didn't Arnold take only 6 weeks to get back to Olympia winning form? Muscle memory and gear can be a powerful combo. There's a study where mice on gear increased muscle mass by 36% in six days (muscles with previous hypertrophy).
 
Mprtz said:
Perhaps you're right. But didn't Arnold take only 6 weeks to get back to Olympia winning form? Muscle memory and gear can be a powerful combo. There's a study where mice on gear increased muscle mass by 36% in six days (muscles with previous hypertrophy).
Click to expand...

IIRC Arnold had just come off filming Conan so I doubt he was in too bad of shape. Plus that show was controversial as hell but let's not get into Olympia politics.
I couldn't care less about how swole mice get since it rarely if ever translates to humans but yes, muscle memory is a real phenomena - I'm not disputing that.

If we assume that DPR was indeed talking about regaining the weight, and that is a might big leap of faith on your part, then how can we explain this next statement - "most would be LUCKY to gain 30 pounds"....because apparently that's a poor result.

Open your nostrils and smell it man...it's all over the place ;)
 
Mprtz said:
Why antagonize? I'm sure DPR is referring to regaining 40 lbs... that's what I assumed anyway.
Click to expand...

when moderators on a supposedly science-backed-theory-forum, spout things that aren't science backed, the people that don't know, say 80-90% of the forum will believe it.

We should take the truth as authority, not the authority as truth
 
Denn said:
I agree with you on everything,
anyway we have to consider that also that even part of pure lean mass disappears when off cycle because of a lowering to the physiological hormone levels .. really?
Click to expand...

I just saw this. When you build LMM , if you keep training hard and eating you don't loose the MASS. Mass is mass and if you are fueling you body and training your body will not feed of, eat, muscle so where would it go.
 
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Dreaded Pirate Roberts said:
I can put on 40 lbs dry in 12 weeks. I also recover very fast because I use IGF-1LR3 on cycle and don't atrophy so no recovery time. Loss is minimul. I use every possible trick digestive aids and peptides and insulin and a whole sluw of advanced compounds. This is only possible when my diet is fine tuned and my training is at it peak. Most people never reach peak performance with there diet in check. I've been at this for more than 15 years.

Most are would be lucky to gain 30 pound because they don't know how to eat to grow and then they botch PCT and don't eat enough protein and loose.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry , in all the years I have been involved in this sport and that is almost double your 15 years, I have never seen what you say is possible.
That's my .02
 
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